By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Gaming - Final Fantasy VII Remake Review Thread - Current 88 Metacritic / 89 Opencritic

Angelus said:
JWeinCom said:

Whenever anyone else is selling vanilla ice cream, they mean vanilla ice cream.  While vanilla ice cream can be made differently, nobody says vanilla ice cream when they mean vanilla ice cream with chocolate chunks thrown in.  

Personally, I wouldn't mind as I like chocolate chunks. I'd even prefer it.

Other people hate chocolate chunks, and would not have bought the ice cream if they knew chocolate chunks were in it.  By advertising your product as vanilla ice cream, they reasonably believed there would be no chocolate chunks, based on the common understanding of the words.  They would therefore feel justifiably ripped off by your chocolate chunk tainting the vanilla ice cream they were promised.

I guess I should have put a wink or something at the end of that post.

I totally understand the misgivings some people are having with the marketing of this game. I suppose I just don't think it's the key factor in the negative reactions that some of you do. If the alterations that were made to story, advertised or no, were generally seen as an improvement, or at least an interesting deviation, there would be some foul called for the advertising, but I don't believe it would happen to the same degree. What's happened here, is that the changes are seen as nonsensical, and playing off the director's ego, rather than the spirit of the original material. That's what I think is really rubbing people the wrong way here, and the sting of that wouldn't be lessened for those people even if Square had called it something other than a remake. 

Definitely fewer people would be upset if they thought the changes were good.  After all, if I have an online date, and the girl shows up looking much hotter than her picture, I'm probably not going to complain.  

Some people would have been unhappy either way.  Some people will be disappointed because something isn't what is advertised, and some people will be unhappy just because something isn't good period.  When you combine those two elements though, then you make things a lot worse.  



Around the Network
JWeinCom said:
Angelus said:
This thread is an interesting study in the duality of a fandom. Core structure vs. mythology.

One group is more than satisfied to play any story that in some way touches upon familiar beats, just so long as there's still a grand adventure with the characters they love, in a setting they remember fondly, with a combat system that feels natural to the FF lineage. For them, it's the moment to moment experience that defines the game.

The other, is much more invested in overarching elements that bind it all together. What's the exact plot? What's the nature of the conflict? How is it resolved? Is established lore respected? If these elements don't match up with their expectations, or established framework of the source material, the moment to moment experience is diminished significantly, and in some cases, made wholly irrelevant.

Neither group is wrong to feel how they feel. You just consume the material differently.

The issue you're missing though is what the fanbase was led to believe. 

You can say that some people like chocolate and some people like vanilla.  But if I like vanilla, you tell me you're going to make some great vanilla ice cream, you sell me a cone telling me it's vanilla, and then it turns out it's actually chocolate, then that's a problem. 

Runa216 said:

See, this is where we differ. I personally think this 'spoiler' is easily the most interesting, unique, engaging, and fun-sounding twist on the story I've heard so far. I went from 'eeeeh...I guess it'll be fun and I'm getting it because I loved the original so much' to 'holy shit I have to play this and there's so much creative potential there!'

In the end, you are in charge of your own perception of the changes made in an adaptation or retelling or remake. Based on everything I heard the creators say leading up to this, I think this is well within the realm of what we could have expected. Yeah, I guess some people aren't going to like it, but so far it's just...a first step in a direction people don't like or might not like. It's still WAY too early to know if this direction is going to be all that different or not. If it is? Cool! I actually hope it is because the meta-storytelling is interesting to me. (Reminds me of anime and comic books/movies). If it ends up still basically being 90% the same game from here on out, I'm happy with that, too. 

I still think it's WAY too early to know if the direction they're going is good or not. all we know is that it has the potential to be wildly different from the original and what many of us came to expect. Subverting expectations CAN be a good thing and often is (Yeah, I know The Last Jedi was NOT a subversion that most people liked, but that's the exception), so I'm still going to withhold judgement until parts 2 and 3 are released. 

all I see is people eager to be upset about something long before they have any real right to know where this is going. be apprehensive, sure. I get it. but not only have none of you (unless you're in Australia or EU) actually played the game, but parts 2 and 3 aren't even out yet. all we have is conjecture on top of theories and extrapolation. We're about three steps away actually being able to judge this based on the whole. Could it be bad? sure, it could. I don't think it will be. It COULD be the best and most interesting take on the FFVII world we've ever seen, going above and beyond the rest of the franchise to date. We don't know and can't. all I see is people whining that the sanctity of their plotline might very literally be defeated. 

You're making some assumptions about my tastesl.  Personally, I like FF7 but it's not even in my top 100 games.  It's not something I'm so passionately invested in that I'm upset at it being changed.  TBH the changes really haven't influenced how likely I am to buy the game in one way or another.

My issue is that this is not what anyone should have anticipated.  I am not responsible for what I think a remake will be.  Language works based on people having a consensus on what words mean.  If Square's definition of remake is different than everyone else's, then the misunderstanding is entirely they're fault.  Honestly, did you anticipate anything like the changes described in the spoilers when you thought of what a remake might be?

To quote you, "all we know is it has the potential to be wildly different from the original".  It's pretty clear based on the fact that they introduced a plot point specifically to explain they can now make major changes to the story, that they intend to do just that.  By no definition should a remake be wildly different than the original, and people who were sold on the prospect of a remake are justifiably disappointed.  Especially for people who are going to avoid spoilers and are going to wind up buying something they may not have decided to purchase if they knew what it was.  

There is a difference between subverting expectations that an audience built for themselves, as in the last Jedi (which I actually liked), and specifically leading consumers to believe a product will be something it is not.  If I'm watching a Spider-man movie and they subvert my expectations by making Aunt May hot, that's subverting my expectations.  If I'm watching Spider-man movie and there's no Spider-man in it, that's false advertising.  

Maybe the changes will actually lead to a better story.  But that's really neither here nor there.  When you tell people to expect one thing, and you give them something completely different, they will justifiably be disappointed. 

Why not? Comic stories get remade all the time, and films get remade for international audiences all the time, as well. Remakes usually have the same characters, the same world, and MOST of the same story and plot. Based on what I've seen and read, FFVII Remake is exactly that, with a turning point at the end that gives the creators unlimited potential to alter things or go in a different direction. Remake isn't the same as Remaster. If this was a Remaster I'd agree with you, but as it is it's a whole new game made from the ground up with the same characters, same world, same plot, same narrative...at least at first. 

'what-if' scenarios are a completely viable way to remake a piece of media. 'what if aerith survived' is something I genuinely would be SO excited to experience. 'what if' it was a meta story about fandom and creators at war with one another?' is another. I get that some people might not like that, but it's within the realm of what can be considered a 'remake' for sure, even if it's on the fringes. 

Also, only part 1 is called 'remake', and it's pretty faithful. PArts 2 and 3 might do the chaos theory thing and end up in a wholly different direction. That excites me so much more than just retreading what we already got. Would a shot for shot remake of FFVII in a new engine with a new gameplay genre be ballin? yeah, yeah it would. I'd buy that and love it. would an AU adaptation of the source material that starts with the same building blocks and makes something new and original also be good? yeah, that sounds perfect to me. both sound great, and both are variants on what a 'remake' can be. I think it's just a matter of many fans arguing about what THEIR interpretation of 'remake' is vs what Nomura is interpreting it as. 

I can assure you that, while this is certainly on the fringes, there's nothing wrong with pushing boundaries and going forth into uncharted territory. Who knows, maybe this will be better than the original? You can't really know until you play through the whole thing. That's kind of the point I'm trying to get across, here. I can totally agree that this might be a direction people will be upset about, but I see WAY too much premature bitching about how it's ruining the sanctity of the game's narrative before we even know what direction it's going. All we know is that they've opened the doors to dozens of different possibilities.

When this all started, it sounded like a linear path. Now, it sounds like a branching path with dozens of potential end points. We still exist within the world of FFVII, we're still starting from the same point, but the idea that we could get a wholly new experience out of this has me more excited for Final Fantasy than I've been since 2006. XV was good, but this looks far, FAR better. 



My Console Library:

PS5, Switch, XSX

PS4, PS3, PS2, PS1, WiiU, Wii, GCN, N64 SNES, XBO, 360

3DS, DS, GBA, Vita, PSP, Android

Metallox said:
DonFerrari said:

Even more because this change can just make a small deviation and return to the same plot with just a small change of path which isn't changing the major plot.

It could be that, it could be something totally different, and bad at that. That's right where concern, more than criticism, comes from. A lot of people don't have confidence in Square Enix and their writers. 

But obviously I hope whatever they make turns out to be nice. Right now this first part that we have, for the most part, meets that profile. 

If it was just concern I was seeing, I wouldn't be so vocal in countering it. I see a lot of hatred, anger, and disappointment in this thread and elsewhere. I agree this is cause for concern, but any mature or reasonable person would wait to see where it goes before deciding they hate it. 

But that's not the internetting way, is it? It's not the way people react when they have outrage to share. 

It could be terrible. I thought XIII And XV had terrible stories that both ended atrociously. Square-Enix is not doing a great job with the flustercluck that is Kingdom Hearts, so I am a little concern they're going to botch this up. However, right now it could go in any of hundreds of different directions and we have no way of knowing if this is going to be a brilliant meta-narrative or some derivative crap. We don't know if it's still gonna stick to the original timeline for like 90% of the game or if it's going to go in a wholly new direction. 

We just don't know, and for the first time in years, that excites me. 



My Console Library:

PS5, Switch, XSX

PS4, PS3, PS2, PS1, WiiU, Wii, GCN, N64 SNES, XBO, 360

3DS, DS, GBA, Vita, PSP, Android

Runa216 said:
JWeinCom said:

The issue you're missing though is what the fanbase was led to believe. 

You can say that some people like chocolate and some people like vanilla.  But if I like vanilla, you tell me you're going to make some great vanilla ice cream, you sell me a cone telling me it's vanilla, and then it turns out it's actually chocolate, then that's a problem. 

You're making some assumptions about my tastesl.  Personally, I like FF7 but it's not even in my top 100 games.  It's not something I'm so passionately invested in that I'm upset at it being changed.  TBH the changes really haven't influenced how likely I am to buy the game in one way or another.

My issue is that this is not what anyone should have anticipated.  I am not responsible for what I think a remake will be.  Language works based on people having a consensus on what words mean.  If Square's definition of remake is different than everyone else's, then the misunderstanding is entirely they're fault.  Honestly, did you anticipate anything like the changes described in the spoilers when you thought of what a remake might be?

To quote you, "all we know is it has the potential to be wildly different from the original".  It's pretty clear based on the fact that they introduced a plot point specifically to explain they can now make major changes to the story, that they intend to do just that.  By no definition should a remake be wildly different than the original, and people who were sold on the prospect of a remake are justifiably disappointed.  Especially for people who are going to avoid spoilers and are going to wind up buying something they may not have decided to purchase if they knew what it was.  

There is a difference between subverting expectations that an audience built for themselves, as in the last Jedi (which I actually liked), and specifically leading consumers to believe a product will be something it is not.  If I'm watching a Spider-man movie and they subvert my expectations by making Aunt May hot, that's subverting my expectations.  If I'm watching Spider-man movie and there's no Spider-man in it, that's false advertising.  

Maybe the changes will actually lead to a better story.  But that's really neither here nor there.  When you tell people to expect one thing, and you give them something completely different, they will justifiably be disappointed. 

Why not? Comic stories get remade all the time, and films get remade for international audiences all the time, as well. Remakes usually have the same characters, the same world, and MOST of the same story and plot. Based on what I've seen and read, FFVII Remake is exactly that, with a turning point at the end that gives the creators unlimited potential to alter things or go in a different direction. Remake isn't the same as Remaster. If this was a Remaster I'd agree with you, but as it is it's a whole new game made from the ground up with the same characters, same world, same plot, same narrative...at least at first. 

'what-if' scenarios are a completely viable way to remake a piece of media. 'what if aerith survived' is something I genuinely would be SO excited to experience. 'what if' it was a meta story about fandom and creators at war with one another?' is another. I get that some people might not like that, but it's within the realm of what can be considered a 'remake' for sure, even if it's on the fringes. 

Also, only part 1 is called 'remake', and it's pretty faithful. PArts 2 and 3 might do the chaos theory thing and end up in a wholly different direction. That excites me so much more than just retreading what we already got. Would a shot for shot remake of FFVII in a new engine with a new gameplay genre be ballin? yeah, yeah it would. I'd buy that and love it. would an AU adaptation of the source material that starts with the same building blocks and makes something new and original also be good? yeah, that sounds perfect to me. both sound great, and both are variants on what a 'remake' can be. I think it's just a matter of many fans arguing about what THEIR interpretation of 'remake' is vs what Nomura is interpreting it as. 

I can assure you that, while this is certainly on the fringes, there's nothing wrong with pushing boundaries and going forth into uncharted territory. Who knows, maybe this will be better than the original? You can't really know until you play through the whole thing. That's kind of the point I'm trying to get across, here. I can totally agree that this might be a direction people will be upset about, but I see WAY too much premature bitching about how it's ruining the sanctity of the game's narrative before we even know what direction it's going. All we know is that they've opened the doors to dozens of different possibilities.

When this all started, it sounded like a linear path. Now, it sounds like a branching path with dozens of potential end points. We still exist within the world of FFVII, we're still starting from the same point, but the idea that we could get a wholly new experience out of this has me more excited for Final Fantasy than I've been since 2006. XV was good, but this looks far, FAR better. 

When has a comic ever been remade?  I've never seen anything in the comic book industry referred to as a remake.  The Spider-man movie is not a remake of a comic book.  I'm not even sure how that would work.  I've been a comic book fan for the last two decades, and I've never heard of a comic book remake.

The bulk of your post talks about how you like the changes, and if that's so, then great for you.  Hope you enjoy the game.  Doesn't change the fact that this isn't what anyone else means by the term remake. 

If you call my pizzeria and order a large pizza and I come to your house with a giant slice of rye bread with salsa and cheddar cheese, you'd be confused and upset.  You wouldn't say "oh well we just need to expand our definition of what pizza could be" or "oh well that's just his definition of pizza".  You'd say this isn't pizza.  And you'd be right.  Because if everyone means one thing by a word, and I use that word to describe something different, then I am being misleading.

Let's assume though the word remake is vague for argument's sake.  Then we look to other things in the marketing to see what fans should have expected.

"Of course, all the memorable elements and key moments from the original have been faithfully reproduced, and you can enjoy experiencing those again."

There are moments that have definitely not been faithfully reproduced, and cannot be enjoyed again, and it is heavily implied that other moments will not be faithfully reproduced either.  And if Aeris lives as you would like, then one of the most important moments will not be reproduced.

"In terms of how faithful the remake is to the original Final Fantasy VII, from the perspective of the storyline, it is very faithful indeed." 

Also just not true.  Once you introduce all the meta and alternate reality stuff, this is not very faithful to the storyline.  Despite being asked several times, nobody can provide an example of a less faithful remake, so calling this "very faithful" is clearly misleading.

 "Well, the main story is still the same, but I have added in many new scenes that happen between the main events of the original, which show how the relationship between Cloud and the other characters deepened. [For example], Cloud's childhood friend Tifa shows him a flat in Midgar, and they come to live in the same building. It is a Japanese-styled flat and the scene itself is quite sweet. So, I want people to look forward to [those additions]."'

This is what people expected.  The main plot being the same, but details being added to fill in holes or flesh things out that did not rewrite the story or contradict the established plot.  Not what we got.

Based on how the word remake is used, and what the developers had said, this is not the product they have been advertising, and fans who wanted what was advertised have reason to be upset.

Last edited by JWeinCom - on 09 April 2020

JWeinCom said:
Runa216 said:

Why not? Comic stories get remade all the time, and films get remade for international audiences all the time, as well. Remakes usually have the same characters, the same world, and MOST of the same story and plot. Based on what I've seen and read, FFVII Remake is exactly that, with a turning point at the end that gives the creators unlimited potential to alter things or go in a different direction. Remake isn't the same as Remaster. If this was a Remaster I'd agree with you, but as it is it's a whole new game made from the ground up with the same characters, same world, same plot, same narrative...at least at first. 

'what-if' scenarios are a completely viable way to remake a piece of media. 'what if aerith survived' is something I genuinely would be SO excited to experience. 'what if' it was a meta story about fandom and creators at war with one another?' is another. I get that some people might not like that, but it's within the realm of what can be considered a 'remake' for sure, even if it's on the fringes. 

Also, only part 1 is called 'remake', and it's pretty faithful. PArts 2 and 3 might do the chaos theory thing and end up in a wholly different direction. That excites me so much more than just retreading what we already got. Would a shot for shot remake of FFVII in a new engine with a new gameplay genre be ballin? yeah, yeah it would. I'd buy that and love it. would an AU adaptation of the source material that starts with the same building blocks and makes something new and original also be good? yeah, that sounds perfect to me. both sound great, and both are variants on what a 'remake' can be. I think it's just a matter of many fans arguing about what THEIR interpretation of 'remake' is vs what Nomura is interpreting it as. 

I can assure you that, while this is certainly on the fringes, there's nothing wrong with pushing boundaries and going forth into uncharted territory. Who knows, maybe this will be better than the original? You can't really know until you play through the whole thing. That's kind of the point I'm trying to get across, here. I can totally agree that this might be a direction people will be upset about, but I see WAY too much premature bitching about how it's ruining the sanctity of the game's narrative before we even know what direction it's going. All we know is that they've opened the doors to dozens of different possibilities.

When this all started, it sounded like a linear path. Now, it sounds like a branching path with dozens of potential end points. We still exist within the world of FFVII, we're still starting from the same point, but the idea that we could get a wholly new experience out of this has me more excited for Final Fantasy than I've been since 2006. XV was good, but this looks far, FAR better. 

When has a comic ever been remade?  I've never seen anything in the comic book industry referred to as a remake.  The Spider-man movie is not a remake of a comic book.  I'm not even sure how that would work.  I've been a comic book fan for the last two decades, and I've never heard of a comic book remake.

The bulk of your post talks about how you like the changes, and if that's so, then great for you.  Hope you enjoy the game.  Doesn't change the fact that this isn't what anyone else means by the term remake. 

If you call my pizzeria and order a large pizza and I come to your house with a giant slice of rye bread with salsa and cheddar cheese, you'd be confused and upset.  You wouldn't say "oh well we just need to expand our definition of what pizza could be" or "oh well that's just his definition of pizza".  You'd say this isn't pizza.  And you'd be right.  Because if everyone means one thing by a word, and I use that word to describe something different, then I am being misleading.

Let's assume though the word remake is vague for argument's sake.  Then we look to other things in the marketing to see what fans should have expected.

"Of course, all the memorable elements and key moments from the original have been faithfully reproduced, and you can enjoy experiencing those again."

There are moments that have definitely not been faithfully reproduced, and cannot be enjoyed again, and it is heavily implied that other moments will not be faithfully reproduced either.  And if Aeris lives as you would like, then one of the most important moments will not be reproduced.

"In terms of how faithful the remake is to the original Final Fantasy VII, from the perspective of the storyline, it is very faithful indeed." 

Also just not true.  Once you introduce all the meta and alternate reality stuff, this is not very faithful to the storyline.  Despite being asked several times, nobody can provide an example of a less faithful remake, so calling this "very faithful" is clearly misleading.

 "Well, the main story is still the same, but I have added in many new scenes that happen between the main events of the original, which show how the relationship between Cloud and the other characters deepened. [For example], Cloud's childhood friend Tifa shows him a flat in Midgar, and they come to live in the same building. It is a Japanese-styled flat and the scene itself is quite sweet. So, I want people to look forward to [those additions]."'

This is what people expected.  The main plot being the same, but details being added to fill in holes or flesh things out that did not rewrite the story or contradict the established plot.  Not what we got.

Based on how the word remake is used, and what the developers had said, this is not the product they have been advertising, and fans who wanted what was advertised have reason to be upset.

If you want to use your comicbook saviness you know fully well what is a reboot, since that is something they do every 5-10 year. And that isn't what was made here.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

Around the Network

DonFerrari said:
JWeinCom said:

When has a comic ever been remade?  I've never seen anything in the comic book industry referred to as a remake.  The Spider-man movie is not a remake of a comic book.  I'm not even sure how that would work.  I've been a comic book fan for the last two decades, and I've never heard of a comic book remake.

The bulk of your post talks about how you like the changes, and if that's so, then great for you.  Hope you enjoy the game.  Doesn't change the fact that this isn't what anyone else means by the term remake. 

If you call my pizzeria and order a large pizza and I come to your house with a giant slice of rye bread with salsa and cheddar cheese, you'd be confused and upset.  You wouldn't say "oh well we just need to expand our definition of what pizza could be" or "oh well that's just his definition of pizza".  You'd say this isn't pizza.  And you'd be right.  Because if everyone means one thing by a word, and I use that word to describe something different, then I am being misleading.

Let's assume though the word remake is vague for argument's sake.  Then we look to other things in the marketing to see what fans should have expected.

"Of course, all the memorable elements and key moments from the original have been faithfully reproduced, and you can enjoy experiencing those again."

There are moments that have definitely not been faithfully reproduced, and cannot be enjoyed again, and it is heavily implied that other moments will not be faithfully reproduced either.  And if Aeris lives as you would like, then one of the most important moments will not be reproduced.

"In terms of how faithful the remake is to the original Final Fantasy VII, from the perspective of the storyline, it is very faithful indeed." 

Also just not true.  Once you introduce all the meta and alternate reality stuff, this is not very faithful to the storyline.  Despite being asked several times, nobody can provide an example of a less faithful remake, so calling this "very faithful" is clearly misleading.

 "Well, the main story is still the same, but I have added in many new scenes that happen between the main events of the original, which show how the relationship between Cloud and the other characters deepened. [For example], Cloud's childhood friend Tifa shows him a flat in Midgar, and they come to live in the same building. It is a Japanese-styled flat and the scene itself is quite sweet. So, I want people to look forward to [those additions]."'

This is what people expected.  The main plot being the same, but details being added to fill in holes or flesh things out that did not rewrite the story or contradict the established plot.  Not what we got.

Based on how the word remake is used, and what the developers had said, this is not the product they have been advertising, and fans who wanted what was advertised have reason to be upset.

If you want to use your comicbook saviness you know fully well what is a reboot, since that is something they do every 5-10 year. And that isn't what was made here.

I don't think that I mentioned reboots or suggested we apply comic book standards to the gaming industry.  Plus I read Marvel which doesn't exactly do reboots.

If you want to use comic book terms however, this is most similar to a new imprint such as Marvel's ultimate line of comics which keeps the basics framework, but sets in a new continuity.  Just like that imprint things basically started off at the same point (spider bites boy, uncle ben dies, etc), but after establishing the basics, things spin off in new directions.  Although this also does share some elements with DC's line wide reboots such as Crisis on Infinite Earth where there is actually a conflict between multiple alternate timelines in the DCU.  

Again though, comics are such a different medium that it makes little sense to analogize them directly to video games.  To understand what remake should mean in this context, we should actually look at other games that are remakes.  And when compared to them, this is certainly a major outlier.  It's been asked several times, but nobody can provide an example of a remake that strays even nearly this far from the source material.  If you think of one let me know. 

Last edited by JWeinCom - on 10 April 2020

An opinion from resetera, Kingdom Fantasy VII for sure. Spoiler:

Spoiler!
 I couldn’t believe my eyes that it went full Tetsuya Nomura Kingdom Hearts in the end.
Heartless Whispers streaming out of a big portal,
Giant Heartless Giant Whisper,
Xemnas chucking buildings at Sora and Sora cutting them in half Sephiroth chucking buildings at Cloud and Cloud cutting them in half.


HoangNhatAnh said:

An opinion from resetera, Kingdom Fantasy VII for sure. Spoiler:

Spoiler!
 I couldn’t believe my eyes that it went full Tetsuya Nomura Kingdom Hearts in the end.
Heartless Whispers streaming out of a big portal,
Giant Heartless Giant Whisper,
Xemnas chucking buildings at Sora and Sora cutting them in half Sephiroth chucking buildings at Cloud and Cloud cutting them in half.

On hindsight, it should have been expected. I mean, this is one of the dudes we were placing our faith on not to screw up:

At least the gameplay is the best it has been in FF in over a decade.



 

 

 

 

 

JWeinCom said:

DonFerrari said:

If you want to use your comicbook saviness you know fully well what is a reboot, since that is something they do every 5-10 year. And that isn't what was made here.

I don't think that I mentioned reboots or suggested we apply comic book standards to the gaming industry.  Plus I read Marvel which doesn't exactly do reboots.

If you want to use comic book terms however, this is most similar to a new imprint such as Marvel's ultimate line of comics which keeps the basics framework, but sets in a new continuity.  Just like that imprint things basically started off at the same point (spider bites boy, uncle ben dies, etc), but after establishing the basics, things spin off in new directions.  Although this also does share some elements with DC's line wide reboots such as Crisis on Infinite Earth where there is actually a conflict between multiple alternate timelines in the DCU.  

Again though, comics are such a different medium that it makes little sense to analogize them directly to video games.  To understand what remake should mean in this context, we should actually look at other games that are remakes.  And when compared to them, this is certainly a major outlier.  It's been asked several times, but nobody can provide an example of a remake that strays even nearly this far from the source material.  If you think of one let me know. 

So if you don't think FFVIIR is a reboot you are accepting it is a remake, because it also isn't a sequel, and it really isn't an imprint since it isn't just starting the same, but most of the story, perhaps 95% is the same. One or two points that people think was key or major being changed don't turn it into not a remake. Remaster is the term we use when most was kept intact but a paintjob and some gameplay touch up were given. At most this title is a little more changing than people are used for remakes, but still is one so claiming SE lied to customers is wrong. Even more when we have reviewers that releases before the game so people know what is in the game.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

DonFerrari said:
JWeinCom said:

I don't think that I mentioned reboots or suggested we apply comic book standards to the gaming industry.  Plus I read Marvel which doesn't exactly do reboots.

If you want to use comic book terms however, this is most similar to a new imprint such as Marvel's ultimate line of comics which keeps the basics framework, but sets in a new continuity.  Just like that imprint things basically started off at the same point (spider bites boy, uncle ben dies, etc), but after establishing the basics, things spin off in new directions.  Although this also does share some elements with DC's line wide reboots such as Crisis on Infinite Earth where there is actually a conflict between multiple alternate timelines in the DCU.  

Again though, comics are such a different medium that it makes little sense to analogize them directly to video games.  To understand what remake should mean in this context, we should actually look at other games that are remakes.  And when compared to them, this is certainly a major outlier.  It's been asked several times, but nobody can provide an example of a remake that strays even nearly this far from the source material.  If you think of one let me know. 

So if you don't think FFVIIR is a reboot you are accepting it is a remake, because it also isn't a sequel, and it really isn't an imprint since it isn't just starting the same, but most of the story, perhaps 95% is the same. One or two points that people think was key or major being changed don't turn it into not a remake. Remaster is the term we use when most was kept intact but a paintjob and some gameplay touch up were given. At most this title is a little more changing than people are used for remakes, but still is one so claiming SE lied to customers is wrong. Even more when we have reviewers that releases before the game so people know what is in the game.

No, I'm not accepting that, because I didn't say it's not a reboot.

I can't say if it's a reboot or not, because we only have 20% or so of the story.  We don't even have 95% of the story.  This game in and of itself obviously can't be a remake because it's missing way more than half of the game's content.

The changes already disqualify the eventual completed package from being a remake.  One of the key elements of any story is the conflict, and the nature of the conflict in this game is completely different from in the original as shown by Cloud's interactions with Sephiroth.  Changing the conflict isn't changing the details of the story, it's changing the entire structure.

As for whether or not it's a reboot, it kind of feels like it, but we'll see based on the final product.  But, even if I don't think it is, that doesn't mean I think it's a remake.  Those categories are not mutually exclusive. 

And even if you think the word remake itself isn't misleading, refer to the quotes talking about how faithful the game will be.  Square absolutely misled people on this one.