Forums - Gaming Discussion - Final Fantasy VII Remake Review Thread - Current 88 Metacritic / 89 Opencritic

Xxain said:
First Run is complete. Final Boss was both surprising and very satisfying

Chp18 thought:

* If the ghost are suppose to be metaphor for the player protecting their memories of FF7(even the 3 bosses have a bio that say they fight to protect the destiny) we have essentially killed them. SE has just said forget what you know about FF7. SE has made us the badguys in regards for a better future for FF7 cast.
* I do not believe that Sephiroth will remain the primary antagonist. There is another and I'm positive it will be Genesis Rhapsados
* In Crisis Core Genesis was all about Heroes and my theory is that he is fucking with time to allow everyone a 2nd chance at being a Hero...even Wedge and ... Sephiroth (who from his point of view believes he is the good).
*Very excited where this could end up. It would be awesome if from this point that it was entirely a new story. They covered all main ff7 points in the first installment!
* When did Biggs end up at the flower house place? Did I miss something? Can you visit him or is only for that scene?
* I regards to the "other guy" is the game trying to infer that destiny was changed in the past as well? He won this time.

The other guy scenes serves to tell us that the ghost things are ended in all alternate universes. Man we need a spoiler thread to talk about these things!!!



 

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ClassicGamingWizzz said:
Immersiveunreality said:

He is kinda cool but i thought the same :p

Also the Sephiroth in this game is still not really Sephiroth,it should be a manifestation of Jenova using Sephiroths memory,or not his physical form but his ''being'' survived in the lifestream because of the Jenova cells in him.

One of those :p

I think sephiroth after the last fight is the real One, the One we fight in ff7 1997 version

xD

I thought the implication was that you were fighting him in the lifestream.



ClassicGamingWizzz said:
Xxain said:
First Run is complete. Final Boss was both surprising and very satisfying

Chp18 thought:

* If the ghost are suppose to be metaphor for the player protecting their memories of FF7(even the 3 bosses have a bio that say they fight to protect the destiny) we have essentially killed them. SE has just said forget what you know about FF7. SE has made us the badguys in regards for a better future for FF7 cast.
* I do not believe that Sephiroth will remain the primary antagonist. There is another and I'm positive it will be Genesis Rhapsados
* In Crisis Core Genesis was all about Heroes and my theory is that he is fucking with time to allow everyone a 2nd chance at being a Hero...even Wedge and ... Sephiroth (who from his point of view believes he is the good).
*Very excited where this could end up. It would be awesome if from this point that it was entirely a new story. They covered all main ff7 points in the first installment!
* When did Biggs end up at the flower house place? Did I miss something? Can you visit him or is only for that scene?
* I regards to the "other guy" is the game trying to infer that destiny was changed in the past as well? He won this time.

The other guy scenes serves to tell us that the ghost things are ended in all alternate universes. Man we need a spoiler thread to talk about these things!!!

I was already planning Post FF7 Remake + future discussion thread. I beat the game about 6 hours ago and the ending is still on my mind.



ClassicGamingWizzz said:
Immersiveunreality said:

He is kinda cool but i thought the same :p

Also the Sephiroth in this game is still not really Sephiroth,it should be a manifestation of Jenova using Sephiroths memory,or not his physical form but his ''being'' survived in the lifestream because of the Jenova cells in him.

One of those :p

I think sephiroth after the last fight is the real One, the One we fight in ff7 1997 version

xD

Your right. Thats exactly what I thought. 

The Sephiroth in this game is the future Sephiroth post Advent Children. He says "I will not become a memory"  just like he did during his defeat  in Advent Children. FF7 Remake is the Last chapter of the Compilation of Final Fantasy 7. Hojo mentioned G cells from Crisis Core and Zacks buddy shows up in chp16



Xxain said:
ClassicGamingWizzz said:

I think sephiroth after the last fight is the real One, the One we fight in ff7 1997 version

xD

Your right. Thats exactly what I thought. 

The Sephiroth in this game is the future Sephiroth post Advent Children. He says "I will not become a memory"  just like he did during his defeat  in Advent Children. FF7 Remake is the Last chapter of the Compilation of Final Fantasy 7. Hojo mentioned G cells from Crisis Core and Zacks buddy shows up in chp16

I don't think so.

Spoiler!
That Sephiroth is most likely the morphed clone that jumps off the Shinra building. Just like any other we meet beforehand, Sephiroth uses those clones as vessels to manifest himself. There is absolutely nothing in the game claiming this is not what is going on whenever we see him. 

When you assess Jenova during the battle against her, it states that she is a master at creating halucinations. And we know Sephiroth is a master manipulator.

I don't buy any of the multiple timelines theories so many of you cling to. Everything won't be as simple as that, and I don't think linking the remake to the original as if the original had an actual part in any of this, instead of the remake being it's own thing, will lead you in the right direction as far as making sense of it all is concerned. 
Last edited by Hynad - on 27 April 2020


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ClassicGamingWizzz said:
Xxain said:
First Run is complete. Final Boss was both surprising and very satisfying

Chp18 thought:

* If the ghost are suppose to be metaphor for the player protecting their memories of FF7(even the 3 bosses have a bio that say they fight to protect the destiny) we have essentially killed them. SE has just said forget what you know about FF7. SE has made us the badguys in regards for a better future for FF7 cast.
* I do not believe that Sephiroth will remain the primary antagonist. There is another and I'm positive it will be Genesis Rhapsados
* In Crisis Core Genesis was all about Heroes and my theory is that he is fucking with time to allow everyone a 2nd chance at being a Hero...even Wedge and ... Sephiroth (who from his point of view believes he is the good).
*Very excited where this could end up. It would be awesome if from this point that it was entirely a new story. They covered all main ff7 points in the first installment!
* When did Biggs end up at the flower house place? Did I miss something? Can you visit him or is only for that scene?
* I regards to the "other guy" is the game trying to infer that destiny was changed in the past as well? He won this time.

The other guy scenes serves to tell us that the ghost things are ended in all alternate universes. Man we need a spoiler thread to talk about these things!!!

https://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=242315

Here you have it.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Hynad said:
Xxain said:

Your right. Thats exactly what I thought. 

The Sephiroth in this game is the future Sephiroth post Advent Children. He says "I will not become a memory"  just like he did during his defeat  in Advent Children. FF7 Remake is the Last chapter of the Compilation of Final Fantasy 7. Hojo mentioned G cells from Crisis Core and Zacks buddy shows up in chp16

I don't think so. That Sephiroth is most likely the morphed clone that jumps off the Shinra building. Just like any other we meet beforehand, Sephiroth uses those clones as vessels to manifest himself. There is absolutely nothing in the game claiming this is not what is going on whenever we see him. 

When you assess Jenova during the battle against her, it states that she is a master at creating halucinations. And we know Sephiroth is a master manipulator.

I don't buy any of the multiple timelines theories so many of you cling to. Everything won't be as simple as that, and I don't think linking the remake to the original as if the original had an actual part in any of this, instead of the remake being it's own thing, will lead you in the right direction as far as making sense of it all is concerned. 

This is a very strange argument because it goes against what we are shown in the game. 

1. Everytime Sephiroth talks it is with tone of somebody who already knows. Example: After sector 7 plate falls his remark is " So you failed again.".  Failed what again? That line totally only makes sense if Sephiroth is aware of events. The dead giveaway is the last scene where he ask Cloud to help him change their destinies! Then we have the ending scene where Zack survives and Aerith sense his presence as they leave and they enter. I want you like you to explain Zack.

2. Did you not understand the whispers or pre final fantasy boss fight. Their job is intervene in the changing of destiny. If Remake is to be treated as its own thing... then why are they interving? Intervening in what? It only makes since if the og FF7 is placed as the normal they are working off of. Once we kill them all the things that they were trying to keep from happening ... Happen. Biggs lives, we see Jesse's headband and glove hinting shes ok. 

3. When I say future Sephiroth, I dont mean physical body, I mean mind. The Sephiroth possessing the bodies is the post Advent Children era Sephiroth. Again he makes reference to that with the " I wont become a memory" line. That is exactly the mantra of the post 7 Sephiroth. Why would the pre defeat Sephiroth say that? The Pre defeat Sephiroth definitely wasnt a memory, he was very real and planning annihilate the Planet.

 You come off as resisting but in a very stick your head in the sand and quite frankly uninteresting way. There are too many hints in FF7 Remake that it is a sequel to the original with an alternate reality angle.

Last edited by Xxain - on 27 April 2020

EnricoPallazzo said:
Just curious, when they fight the ghosts at the end, how do they know they are fighting ghosts that trying to keep the same timeline?

Because Red Xlll and Aerith are in tune with the planet and they understand the whispers.



Xxain said:
Hynad said:
Spoiler!
I don't think so. That Sephiroth is most likely the morphed clone that jumps off the Shinra building. Just like any other we meet beforehand, Sephiroth uses those clones as vessels to manifest himself. There is absolutely nothing in the game claiming this is not what is going on whenever we see him. 

When you assess Jenova during the battle against her, it states that she is a master at creating halucinations. And we know Sephiroth is a master manipulator.

I don't buy any of the multiple timelines theories so many of you cling to. Everything won't be as simple as that, and I don't think linking the remake to the original as if the original had an actual part in any of this, instead of the remake being it's own thing, will lead you in the right direction as far as making sense of it all is concerned. 

This is a very strange argument because it goes against what we are shown in the game. 

Spoiler!

1. Everytime Sephiroth talks it is with tone of somebody who already knows. Example: After sector 7 plate falls his remark is " So you failed again.".  Failed what again? That line totally only makes sense if Sephiroth is aware of events. The dead giveaway is the last scene where he ask Cloud to help him change their destinies! Then we have the ending scene where Zack survives and Aerith sense his presence as they leave and they enter. I want you like you to explain Zack.

2. Did you not understand the whispers or pre final fantasy boss fight. Their job is intervene in the changing of destiny. If Remake is to be treated as its own thing... then why are they interving? Intervening in what? It only makes since if the og FF7 is placed as the normal they are working off of. Once we kill them all the things that they were trying to keep from happening ... Happen. Biggs lives, we see Jesse's headband and glove hinting shes ok. 

3. When I say future Sephiroth, I dont mean physical body, I mean mind. The Sephiroth possessing the bodies is the post Advent Children era Sephiroth. Again he makes reference to that with the " I wont become a memory" line. That is exactly the mantra of the post 7 Sephiroth. Why would the pre defeat Sephiroth say that? The Pre defeat Sephiroth definitely wasnt a memory, he was very real and planning annihilate the Planet.

 You come off as resisting but in a very stick your head in the sand and quite frankly uninteresting way. There are too many hints in FF7 Remake that it is a sequel to the original with an alternate reality angle.

Spoiler!

1: He failed again. That's the inner Sephiroth telling him this. The one inside of him due to the Jenova cell injected in him as one of Hojo's cloning experiment. Cloud keeps saying he is an ex-SOLDIER, but nope. He failed to get in, and has spent this whole time trying to compensate by acting cool or above himself, even taking Zack's persona no less. "So you failed again" is simply himself having difficulty to cope with being (seeing himself as) a failure. This will go hand in hand again further down the road when a certain event happens in the next parts. You have to keep in mind that this is the first part of the story, and as such, everything isn't self-contained in it. Many plot points will be resolved in later parts.

As for Zack, Aerith is an Ancient who can hear the voice of the planet. When you think she sensed him is precisely the place where Zack died. Will they show his death scene in part 2 or did he survived? We'll have to wait for Part 2 to be sure. My money's on the former, based on a comment by Kitase in the Remake's Ultimania book, but I'll come back to this later.

2 and 3: Why are they intervening? Even Aerith, moments before the party goes inside the portal, says "Who knows?" completely puzzled when Tifa asks WTF they're doing around Shinra's headquarter. Then you see Sephiroth arrives, raises his hand, says "listen", and the Whispers come right away behind him. They call those things Arbiter of Fate, but is it really what they are? At first glance, people think they're working against Sephiroth, to make sure a certain timeline happens, but things are most likely not what they seem. Throughout the entire original game, Sephiroth manipulates Cloud and the party to lead them to him. He keeps talking to Cloud, puts ideas in his brain and toys with his emotions. What is clear, is that he can SEE the future. That's made clear by the multiple visions we get throughout the game. Seeing it and being from it are different things. He can have foreseen events without necessarily having experienced them. He is still, after all, at the Knowlespole pulling the strings. The Whispers are more than likely one of those strings.

The problem with your theory is that you start from a conclusion and work backwards from it looking for details that may fit with it. That's the wrong way to go about it. So many people are doing this right now... You start with the idea that Sephiroth saying that line means it's him from that movie. Is Cloud from AC as well because he said "not interested"? Seriously, WTF?!

And I am not resisting so much as thinking those theories are moronic and stretching to ludicrous limits at best. People are needlessly over-complicating things. I am sure the revelations will be much simpler than any meta-crap so many of you cling to.

Now here's a statement made by Kitase, taken from the Remake's Ultimania book:

今後についてもオリジナル版と全然違うものにするつもはなく、リメイク版でもFF7はFF7のままだと思ってください

Spoiler!
"We’re not drastically changing the story and making it into something completely different than the original. Even though it’s a Remake, please assume the story of FF7 will continue as FF7 always has from here on out."

Last edited by Hynad - on 28 April 2020


Hynad said:
Xxain said:
endgame is obnoxious but it confirms a things:

* Again this is sequel hidden in a remake.
* I have a theory on the ghost past preserving the FF7 timeline - I think the ghost are a metaphor for memories of FF7 players. The ghost are us.
* They are clearly getting the key aspects of FF7 out the way quickly. All the major aspects of FF7 have been referenced in some way. I sense that the next part could be drastically different and the possibilities are exciting. I love how the ghost drag Hojo out the room before he could reveal clouds secret out in a very *nope to early* fashion
* game is like Fuck Wedge


Jumping on the meta-commentary bandwagon just like most everyone.

There's quite a LOT that they haven't touched. But to see any of it, you have to play it as the game being standalone, and as if you've never played the original. Because the game, while having been made for fans, was also made for newcomers. And as such, playing the original isn't required.


So many people do as you do and keep making references and links to the original, as a sequel, that include time traveling , multi-dimensions, or anything like that. But if you'd try to take the game in isolation instead of linking it to the original, you could come up with other conclusions and theories that are far more grounded than those Kingdom Hearts shenanigans.

That being said, nothing will be known for sure until S-E releases information about the sequel.

I have to agree with you here. All that guessing about multiple timelines and what not is nothing different from new players guessing about whatever happened when you're not familiar with all the spin-offs or the original. And yes, if there's no alternative dimension or timeline, the guesses are far more plausible.

The game is perfectly playable without all that 'previous' knowledge and is completed in a way with a somewhat satisfying ending while longing for more backstory and continuation. As such I am curious to see how the story will develop, and have no complaints about this game's story since it is simply not finished or fully explained.