Final Fantasy VII Remake Review Thread - Current 88 Metacritic / 89 Opencritic

[Runa216]

JWeinCom said:

Angelus said:
This thread is an interesting study in the duality of a fandom. Core structure vs. mythology.

One group is more than satisfied to play any story that in some way touches upon familiar beats, just so long as there's still a grand adventure with the characters they love, in a setting they remember fondly, with a combat system that feels natural to the FF lineage. For them, it's the moment to moment experience that defines the game.

The other, is much more invested in overarching elements that bind it all together. What's the exact plot? What's the nature of the conflict? How is it resolved? Is established lore respected? If these elements don't match up with their expectations, or established framework of the source material, the moment to moment experience is diminished significantly, and in some cases, made wholly irrelevant.

Neither group is wrong to feel how they feel. You just consume the material differently.

The issue you're missing though is what the fanbase was led to believe. 

You can say that some people like chocolate and some people like vanilla.  But if I like vanilla, you tell me you're going to make some great vanilla ice cream, you sell me a cone telling me it's vanilla, and then it turns out it's actually chocolate, then that's a problem. 

Runa216 said:

See, this is where we differ. I personally think this 'spoiler' is easily the most interesting, unique, engaging, and fun-sounding twist on the story I've heard so far. I went from 'eeeeh...I guess it'll be fun and I'm getting it because I loved the original so much' to 'holy shit I have to play this and there's so much creative potential there!'

In the end, you are in charge of your own perception of the changes made in an adaptation or retelling or remake. Based on everything I heard the creators say leading up to this, I think this is well within the realm of what we could have expected. Yeah, I guess some people aren't going to like it, but so far it's just...a first step in a direction people don't like or might not like. It's still WAY too early to know if this direction is going to be all that different or not. If it is? Cool! I actually hope it is because the meta-storytelling is interesting to me. (Reminds me of anime and comic books/movies). If it ends up still basically being 90% the same game from here on out, I'm happy with that, too. 

I still think it's WAY too early to know if the direction they're going is good or not. all we know is that it has the potential to be wildly different from the original and what many of us came to expect. Subverting expectations CAN be a good thing and often is (Yeah, I know The Last Jedi was NOT a subversion that most people liked, but that's the exception), so I'm still going to withhold judgement until parts 2 and 3 are released. 

all I see is people eager to be upset about something long before they have any real right to know where this is going. be apprehensive, sure. I get it. but not only have none of you (unless you're in Australia or EU) actually played the game, but parts 2 and 3 aren't even out yet. all we have is conjecture on top of theories and extrapolation. We're about three steps away actually being able to judge this based on the whole. Could it be bad? sure, it could. I don't think it will be. It COULD be the best and most interesting take on the FFVII world we've ever seen, going above and beyond the rest of the franchise to date. We don't know and can't. all I see is people whining that the sanctity of their plotline might very literally be defeated. 

You're making some assumptions about my tastesl.  Personally, I like FF7 but it's not even in my top 100 games.  It's not something I'm so passionately invested in that I'm upset at it being changed.  TBH the changes really haven't influenced how likely I am to buy the game in one way or another.

My issue is that this is not what anyone should have anticipated.  I am not responsible for what I think a remake will be.  Language works based on people having a consensus on what words mean.  If Square's definition of remake is different than everyone else's, then the misunderstanding is entirely they're fault.  Honestly, did you anticipate anything like the changes described in the spoilers when you thought of what a remake might be?

To quote you, "all we know is it has the potential to be wildly different from the original".  It's pretty clear based on the fact that they introduced a plot point specifically to explain they can now make major changes to the story, that they intend to do just that.  By no definition should a remake be wildly different than the original, and people who were sold on the prospect of a remake are justifiably disappointed.  Especially for people who are going to avoid spoilers and are going to wind up buying something they may not have decided to purchase if they knew what it was.  

There is a difference between subverting expectations that an audience built for themselves, as in the last Jedi (which I actually liked), and specifically leading consumers to believe a product will be something it is not.  If I'm watching a Spider-man movie and they subvert my expectations by making Aunt May hot, that's subverting my expectations.  If I'm watching Spider-man movie and there's no Spider-man in it, that's false advertising.  

Maybe the changes will actually lead to a better story.  But that's really neither here nor there.  When you tell people to expect one thing, and you give them something completely different, they will justifiably be disappointed. 

Why not? Comic stories get remade all the time, and films get remade for international audiences all the time, as well. Remakes usually have the same characters, the same world, and MOST of the same story and plot. Based on what I've seen and read, FFVII Remake is exactly that, with a turning point at the end that gives the creators unlimited potential to alter things or go in a different direction. Remake isn't the same as Remaster. If this was a Remaster I'd agree with you, but as it is it's a whole new game made from the ground up with the same characters, same world, same plot, same narrative...at least at first. 

'what-if' scenarios are a completely viable way to remake a piece of media. 'what if aerith survived' is something I genuinely would be SO excited to experience. 'what if' it was a meta story about fandom and creators at war with one another?' is another. I get that some people might not like that, but it's within the realm of what can be considered a 'remake' for sure, even if it's on the fringes. 

Also, only part 1 is called 'remake', and it's pretty faithful. PArts 2 and 3 might do the chaos theory thing and end up in a wholly different direction. That excites me so much more than just retreading what we already got. Would a shot for shot remake of FFVII in a new engine with a new gameplay genre be ballin? yeah, yeah it would. I'd buy that and love it. would an AU adaptation of the source material that starts with the same building blocks and makes something new and original also be good? yeah, that sounds perfect to me. both sound great, and both are variants on what a 'remake' can be. I think it's just a matter of many fans arguing about what THEIR interpretation of 'remake' is vs what Nomura is interpreting it as. 

I can assure you that, while this is certainly on the fringes, there's nothing wrong with pushing boundaries and going forth into uncharted territory. Who knows, maybe this will be better than the original? You can't really know until you play through the whole thing. That's kind of the point I'm trying to get across, here. I can totally agree that this might be a direction people will be upset about, but I see WAY too much premature bitching about how it's ruining the sanctity of the game's narrative before we even know what direction it's going. All we know is that they've opened the doors to dozens of different possibilities.

When this all started, it sounded like a linear path. Now, it sounds like a branching path with dozens of potential end points. We still exist within the world of FFVII, we're still starting from the same point, but the idea that we could get a wholly new experience out of this has me more excited for Final Fantasy than I've been since 2006. XV was good, but this looks far, FAR better.