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Forums - Politics - Official 2020 US Presidential Election Thread

KLXVER said:
Torillian said:

Which is a way progressive organizations get donations. That money goes to BLM, it does not go to campaigns. The campaigns themselves get donations through Act Blue. Act Blue is like paypal, just a middle man. 

https://www.factcheck.org/2020/06/donations-to-black-lives-matter-group-dont-go-to-dnc/

Edit: and from the link you provided.

https://support.actblue.com/donors/about-actblue/how-do-i-know-my-money-is-going-to-the-candidate-or-organization-i-donated-to/

Thats mainly what its for. To support democratic campaigns. If you have sources that say BLM donates millions to poor neighborhoods or programs that help people, then please let me know.

So I have to prove your allegation about BLM born from misconceptions about how Act Blue works false? Unfortunately I don't have access to what BLM uses the money for when they get it, but I know that they got it because that's how Act Blue works. After that you would have to show me proof of what BLM is using the money for when they get it from Act Blue. 



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Torillian said:
KLXVER said:

Thats mainly what its for. To support democratic campaigns. If you have sources that say BLM donates millions to poor neighborhoods or programs that help people, then please let me know.

So I have to prove your allegation about BLM born from misconceptions about how Act Blue works false? Unfortunately I don't have access to what BLM uses the money for when they get it, but I know that they got it because that's how Act Blue works. After that you would have to show me proof of what BLM is using the money for when they get it from Act Blue. 

They dont disclose what the money is used for. They use a website only for democrats. Why? What has BLM to do with the Democratic Party? Black republicans doesnt matter? And I have seen no proof of the money going elsewhere. 



KLXVER said:
Torillian said:

So I have to prove your allegation about BLM born from misconceptions about how Act Blue works false? Unfortunately I don't have access to what BLM uses the money for when they get it, but I know that they got it because that's how Act Blue works. After that you would have to show me proof of what BLM is using the money for when they get it from Act Blue. 

They dont disclose what the money is used for. They use a website only for democrats. Why? What has BLM to do with the Democratic Party? Black republicans doesnt matter? And I have seen no proof of the money going elsewhere. 

Act Blue is a website for democrats and progressive organizations. You think BLM isn't progressive? Do you honestly think that? 

I have shown you that the money that goes to Act Blue goes to BLM. After that we'd need to argue about what BLM used the money for, what money Act Blue puts into democratic campaigns is completely immaterial. 

And here's an article about BLM setting up a 12m dollar grant for their chapters: https://www.businessinsider.com/black-lives-matter-network-establishes-12m-grant-fund-2020-6



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Torillian said:
KLXVER said:

They dont disclose what the money is used for. They use a website only for democrats. Why? What has BLM to do with the Democratic Party? Black republicans doesnt matter? And I have seen no proof of the money going elsewhere. 

Act Blue is a website for democrats and progressive organizations. You think BLM isn't progressive? Do you honestly think that? 

I have shown you that the money that goes to Act Blue goes to BLM. After that we'd need to argue about what BLM used the money for, what money Act Blue puts into democratic campaigns is completely immaterial. 

And here's an article about BLM setting up a 12m dollar grant for their chapters: https://www.businessinsider.com/black-lives-matter-network-establishes-12m-grant-fund-2020-6

Sure many of them are progressive, but why limit your options when it comes to helping people? Doesnt make much sense to me. The article talks about how the organization has left people frustrated by the lack of transparency. It also talks about misinformation about them and the money they raise going into the Democratic Party, so thats something at least.  



KLXVER said:
Torillian said:

Act Blue is a website for democrats and progressive organizations. You think BLM isn't progressive? Do you honestly think that? 

I have shown you that the money that goes to Act Blue goes to BLM. After that we'd need to argue about what BLM used the money for, what money Act Blue puts into democratic campaigns is completely immaterial. 

And here's an article about BLM setting up a 12m dollar grant for their chapters: https://www.businessinsider.com/black-lives-matter-network-establishes-12m-grant-fund-2020-6

Sure many of them are progressive, but why limit your options when it comes to helping people? Doesnt make much sense to me. The article talks about how the organization has left people frustrated by the lack of transparency. It also talks about misinformation about them and the money they raise going into the Democratic Party, so thats something at least.  

In regards to your claims regarding BLM money going from ActBlue Charities to Democratic campaigns, it legally isn't allowed to. If you head over to the BLM donation page, you will see that it includes a statement regarding ActBlue Charities at the bottom. This is a separate part of ActBlue which acts in a different manner than the PAC part of ActBlue. You can even see the disclaimer at the bottom of the page which indicates that ActBlue Charities is a 501c3 organization.

(This distinction is further explained by ActBlue here: https://support.actblue.com/donors/about-actblue/what-is-the-difference-between-actblue-actblue-civics-ab-charities-and-actblue-technical-services/ )

501c3 organizations are heavily regulated. One of those regulations is that contributions to political campaigns are not allowed. As such, the money cannot legally travel from ActBlue Charities to any political campaign.

As such, any insinuation that the money donated to BLM is going from ActBlue Charities to any Democratic campaign is an accusation that ActBlue Charities and BLM are violating the law, and extraordinary claims need extraordinary evidence.

As for where the money goes once it gets to BLM, BLM for several years (2016-July 2020) partnered with another 501c3 organization called Thousand Currents through a fiscal sponsorship. What this essentially means is that the money went from ActBlue Charities (a 501c3 organization), to Thousand Currents (another 501c3 organization) and where the money went to was decided from there. That means both of the organizations handling BLM money were legally prevented from making campaign contributions. 

As of July 2020, BLM has partnered with another organization called Tides and, spoiler, it is also a 501c3 organization.



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KLXVER said:
Torillian said:

So I have to prove your allegation about BLM born from misconceptions about how Act Blue works false? Unfortunately I don't have access to what BLM uses the money for when they get it, but I know that they got it because that's how Act Blue works. After that you would have to show me proof of what BLM is using the money for when they get it from Act Blue. 

They dont disclose what the money is used for. They use a website only for democrats. Why? What has BLM to do with the Democratic Party? Black republicans doesnt matter? And I have seen no proof of the money going elsewhere. 

Not how it works dude. 

You made an allegation about where the money is going. It's your burden to prove that. So far, you've failed. 



JWeinCom said:
KLXVER said:

They dont disclose what the money is used for. They use a website only for democrats. Why? What has BLM to do with the Democratic Party? Black republicans doesnt matter? And I have seen no proof of the money going elsewhere. 

Not how it works dude. 

You made an allegation about where the money is going. It's your burden to prove that. So far, you've failed. 

Ok, so I failed. I dont care what you think. I believe what I believe. 



KLXVER said:
JWeinCom said:

Not how it works dude. 

You made an allegation about where the money is going. It's your burden to prove that. So far, you've failed. 

Ok, so I failed. I dont care what you think. I believe what I believe. 

Well, I think you should believe things when you have sufficient evidence to believe them. If you actually care about what is true.



KLXVER said:
JWeinCom said:

Not how it works dude. 

You made an allegation about where the money is going. It's your burden to prove that. So far, you've failed. 

Ok, so I failed. I dont care what you think. I believe what I believe. 

This is pretty much the problem with politics, especially in the age of trump.  People believe everything that supports their position or political party, regardless of whether it is true or not.  Facts no longer matter, just what people believe.  A problem that has been severely compounded by social media over the last decade as misinformation is thrown out by campaigns as well as foreign powers...



JWeinCom said:
KLXVER said:

Ok, so I failed. I dont care what you think. I believe what I believe. 

Well, I think you should believe things when you have sufficient evidence to believe them. If you actually care about what is true.

I have sufficient evidence. More than you have of the opposite.