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Forums - Politics - Official 2020 US Presidential Election Thread

EricHiggin said:
Ka-pi96 said:

I'd also argue there's some pro-French and anti-German bias involved there. Otherwise it'd be known as World War Two, with Napoleon being responsible for World War One.

You're just looking at short very specific points in time (which were bad), and assuming that breaks the cycle or automatically restarts it. A natural cycle is like the seasons, which don't go perfectly linearly from hot to cold, then cold back to hot. It's up and down and can vary greatly in short bursts in between.

Now while this cycle may not seem natural as it's man who the cycle pertains too, it is natural. Like with animal pop. As one pop grows, it's corrected by it's predators, then their predators, and so on, until there are too many top predators, then they correct themselves from too much competition. 

When things get really bad, which usually takes a while for people to smarten up and come together, they put the best in charge for a while. Once things are great again, people start to get careless and greedy. This allows for mediocre people to be put in charge, which eventually leads to things falling apart again.

"Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. Weak men create hard times." G.M. Hopf

This quote is a more general explanation of the cycle.

You have yet to give a single example, so I don't think you have any license to criticize the examples others have provided. Just repeating yourself over and over does not an argument make. 



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Ka-pi96 said:
Bofferbrauer2 said:

It's still known as the great war in most of Western Europe. It mostly just started to become known as World War One in those regions due to the US Film Industry and Pop Culture Osmosis.

About the bolded part, you make no sense here, or at least I can't understand what you want to tell us with that. Care to explain in more detail?

I'd also argue there's some pro-French and anti-German bias involved there. Otherwise it'd be known as World War Two, with Napoleon being responsible for World War One.

The Napoleonic wars were, apart from a small spat in Egypt, mostly contained in Europe. Napoleon actually sold Louisiana (as in the entire french North American colonies, not just the modern state) to the US to avoid opening a front there with the British. So if the Napoleonic Wars would be included, then the 30 Year's War would also do so.

But which war definitely also counts is the 7 year's War, being fought in Europe, the american colonies as well in India.

In other words, depending which wars you want to count, you can end up with World War One being actually World War 4



Ka-pi96 said:
Bofferbrauer2 said:

The Napoleonic wars were, apart from a small spat in Egypt, mostly contained in Europe. Napoleon actually sold Louisiana (as in the entire french North American colonies, not just the modern state) to the US to avoid opening a front there with the British. So if the Napoleonic Wars would be included, then the 30 Year's War would also do so.

But which war definitely also counts is the 7 year's War, being fought in Europe, the american colonies as well in India.

In other words, depending which wars you want to count, you can end up with World War One being actually World War 4

There are a number of historians that consider the war of 1812 between the US and UK to be a part of the Napoleonic wars too, so that's some conflict outside of Europe.

Besides, WW1 was almost entirely in Europe as well. If it weren't for a bit of fighting in the few German colonies in Africa/Asia then it would have been only in Europe.

World War One was pretty much only retroactively called as such. And I agree that most fighting was in Europe or middle East (you seem to have forgotten the Ottoman Empire's contribution to the war here), so it was mostly an extended continental affair. Only World War 2 and the 7 year's war were really active im more theaters than two continents (WW2 with Europe, Northern Africa and China-Pacific; 7YW with Europe, India and North America), thus in my opinion the only ones really deserving the moniker of World War.

Fun Fact: Winston Churchill called the 7 year's war the first world war.



Trump finally got a senator to object to the electoral college, which will force a vote in both houses of Congress:
https://www.npr.org/sections/biden-transition-updates/2020/12/30/951430323/gop-sen-hawley-will-object-to-electoral-college-certification

They don't have the votes to overturn the election, but this is basically as scorched Earth as you can get in terms of undermining the legitimacy of Biden's victory, without actually taking away the win. The results of a recent NPR poll, finding that nearly 2 in 5 Americans (including a majority of Republicans) believe that there is a deep state conspiracy that cost Trump the election, suggests that there may be be zero political consequences for Republicans continuing to destabilize American politics. With the exception that the continued chaos may be enough to swing Georgia into the hands of the Democrats.

https://www.npr.org/2020/12/30/951095644/even-if-its-bonkers-poll-finds-many-believe-qanon-and-other-conspiracy-theories (there is a lot more to unpack with this that falls outside of the realm of the election too)

I was convinced over a month ago that the threat of losing the Georgia senate seats would be enough to keep Republicans playing nice for a few months, but I guess they realize that they can basically do anything without fear of their base turning out. Even the more moderate conservatives seems to buy into the Republican narrative of "even if you don't like us, you dislike the Democrats more". News is so fast-paced these days, even the insane pardons from Trump a few days ago have already seemingly left the national narrative.

It's gonna be an ugly month. I don't know if there is a god... but America could really use some help right now.



First the debate, now a great response on Fox. Man, Ossoff is smooth...

Don't let us down, Georgia!



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Maybe its just me but I am more interested to see what happens on Jan 6th. I just got myself a huge order of salt and vinegar popcorn I am waiting on opening next week. The song and dance we are going to see the Reps go through will be very interesting. As I have stated, I believe they all know that what they plan to do has no way of working but they are willing to go through this theater anyway. The big question will be if Pence will not count the votes for the states in question. Now that should be something really interesting to see if he is willing to go down that route.



Machiavellian said:

Maybe its just me but I am more interested to see what happens on Jan 6th. I just got myself a huge order of salt and vinegar popcorn I am waiting on opening next week. The song and dance we are going to see the Reps go through will be very interesting. As I have stated, I believe they all know that what they plan to do has no way of working but they are willing to go through this theater anyway. The big question will be if Pence will not count the votes for the states in question. Now that should be something really interesting to see if he is willing to go down that route.

I'm not sure if Pence is allowed to do that. There are some saying he can and others saying he can't.  



IvorEvilen said:

Trump finally got a senator to object to the electoral college, which will force a vote in both houses of Congress:
https://www.npr.org/sections/biden-transition-updates/2020/12/30/951430323/gop-sen-hawley-will-object-to-electoral-college-certification

They don't have the votes to overturn the election, but this is basically as scorched Earth as you can get in terms of undermining the legitimacy of Biden's victory, without actually taking away the win. The results of a recent NPR poll, finding that nearly 2 in 5 Americans (including a majority of Republicans) believe that there is a deep state conspiracy that cost Trump the election, suggests that there may be be zero political consequences for Republicans continuing to destabilize American politics. With the exception that the continued chaos may be enough to swing Georgia into the hands of the Democrats.

I forgot exactly what it was, but something Hawley did a couple of weeks ago was actually a good idea.  "Maybe he is not so bad," I thought to myself.  Nope.  This seals it.  Never voting for him on any ballot he appears on for the rest of his life.  I don't know why we elect such awful people in Missouri.



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Mr.GameCrazy said:
Machiavellian said:

Maybe its just me but I am more interested to see what happens on Jan 6th. I just got myself a huge order of salt and vinegar popcorn I am waiting on opening next week. The song and dance we are going to see the Reps go through will be very interesting. As I have stated, I believe they all know that what they plan to do has no way of working but they are willing to go through this theater anyway. The big question will be if Pence will not count the votes for the states in question. Now that should be something really interesting to see if he is willing to go down that route.

I'm not sure if Pence is allowed to do that. There are some saying he can and others saying he can't.  

He can't but there is still some wiggle room for him to try.  I am not really sure if Pence is willing to throw out his political career doing a stunt like this but if he does, things should get very interesting.  We already know that Trump will do anything to stay in power but the question is does Pence want to keep riding this train or is he ready to get off.  Either way, some really dumb stuff is going to happen on Jan 6th I believe and how thing shake down should be interesting.



Machiavellian said:
Mr.GameCrazy said:

I'm not sure if Pence is allowed to do that. There are some saying he can and others saying he can't.  

He can't but there is still some wiggle room for him to try.  I am not really sure if Pence is willing to throw out his political career doing a stunt like this but if he does, things should get very interesting.  We already know that Trump will do anything to stay in power but the question is does Pence want to keep riding this train or is he ready to get off.  Either way, some really dumb stuff is going to happen on Jan 6th I believe and how thing shake down should be interesting.

Is there actually any Republican who lost his career for doing stupid things for Trump? Seems more like Republicans are falling over themselves to do stupid stuff to further their career.



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