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Forums - General Discussion - Coronavirus (COVID-19) Discussion Thread

CrazyGamer2017 said:
SvennoJ said:

What?

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

A disease that can potentially kill 230 million people is not worthy of concern?

230 million people, where does that come from? That's almost 3% of all humans. That implies that no less than 100% of humans get infected. Why would that ever happen? All the diseases that EVER existed never came close to 100% of infection. The closest contestant could be the black plague that ravaged Europe centuries ago, and that one got how far? 20% of the world population? Probably less and that was at a time when there was no communication, no serious medical knowledge, no real warning or prevention, very bad hygiene that would make any infection reign supreme among humans. So from there how can you infer that this Corona-virus will hit 100% of the human population?

I think you guys are falling prey to media sensationalism. It's going to be bad, there will certainly be way more casualties than the current 2500 dead or whatever that number now is, but nothing ANYWHERE near 230 million deaths. I'll bet that there won't even be 230 million infected worldwide, let alone 8 billion. Only way for things to get as bad as you guys fear would be for this thing to mutate into some kind of super virus but I don't know if that is even possible, it's never happened before, why would it happen now?

Keep in mind it takes a while between being infected and dying from the infection. Due to this, your 2% is simply too low.

If you rather compare the number of deaths vs recoveries, then you'll reach 10%. By that regard, the 230M figure is actually rather conservative



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Checking the ratio death/total infected doesn't make sens, as you don't die in 1sec with the virus. The only one most realistic rate that we have is right now 9,8%: you take the ratio between death toll and total closed cases.
I can't believe that even today we see so ignorant reactions...It is over the time of possible over exaggeration by the media.



CrazyGamer2017 said:
SvennoJ said:

What?

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

A disease that can potentially kill 230 million people is not worthy of concern?

230 million people, where does that come from? That's almost 3% of all humans. That implies that no less than 100% of humans get infected. Why would that ever happen? All the diseases that EVER existed never came close to 100% of infection. The closest contestant could be the black plague that ravaged Europe centuries ago, and that one got how far? 20% of the world population? Probably less and that was at a time when there was no communication, no serious medical knowledge, no real warning or prevention, very bad hygiene that would make any infection reign supreme among humans. So from there how can you infer that this Corona-virus will hit 100% of the human population?

I think you guys are falling prey to media sensationalism. It's going to be bad, there will certainly be way more casualties than the current 2500 dead or whatever that number now is, but nothing ANYWHERE near 230 million deaths. I'll bet that there won't even be 230 million infected worldwide, let alone 8 billion. Only way for things to get as bad as you guys fear would be for this thing to mutate into some kind of super virus but I don't know if that is even possible, it's never happened before, why would it happen now?

Simply extrapolating the figures from the facts.

2,470 deaths out of 78,993 confirmed cases = 3.12% death rate or even 9.5% of the closed cases (91.5% recovery rate)
Active cases: 21.8% in serious or critical condition.
2 to 3 newly infected per case despite all the counter measures, and an incubation period of 2 to 14 days makes it highly dangerous.

I haven't read anything about people being immune to the virus, but sure if it only has the capacity to infect half the population, no worries!



Not quite correct...in general both are true, but the deaths/total cases is a % that tends to grow, now is 3.2%, instead the deaths/closed cases is a % that tends to decrease, now is 9.8%.

At the end of the epidemic these percentages will be the same, so nowadays the best mortality rate is given by the geometric mean, which is around 5%.

Last edited by supermattia10 - on 23 February 2020

Bofferbrauer2 said:
Keep in mind it takes a while between being infected and dying from the infection. Due to this, your 2% is simply too low.If you rather compare the number of deaths vs recoveries, then you'll reach 10%. By that regard, the 230M figure is actually rather conservative

Nope, I'll continue comparing deaths vs infected because that is the only objective measure here. When you get infected, you need to know how that compares to those dying of that same infection, the rest is only partial statistics. Those who are recovering are neither part of the healed nor the dead, therefore they cannot be added to the final figure and thus for the time being 2% to 3% of those infected die and 97% live or are alive, that's just fact.

Then you are making your figures even more incorrect by correlating your 10% to 230 million deaths. EVEN if your 10% of casualties were true (which so far they absolutely are not), you'd still need 2.3 billion people infected to get 230 million or 10% of them dead. This is so beyond the reality as to be downright absurd, and the icing on the cake is you saying these are conservative estimates?

We have 2500 dead and you are already telling me that somehow you know for sure that there will be 230 million casualties as the BEST case scenario but due to that scenario being a conservative one, we must expect how many dead? 300 million? 400 million?

You guys watch too many Hollywood movies and got those mixed up with reality. What you are describing is the result of some super virus and at this point nothing suggests that we are dealing with such a threat and since such a super virus has never taken place in recorded history, I'll continue believing this virus is no different from any other viruses already existing, its only strength resides in the fact that we don't have at this point a cure for it, that's all, but I heard in the news that they expect to get one within a year and a half or so.

Bottom line is we need to keep an eye on this corona virus of course cause it's still a nasty bug but that does not make it some kind of end-of-the-world threat. You guys need not panic, at least not yet.



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CrazyGamer2017 said:

I'll bet that there won't even be 230 million infected worldwide, let alone 8 billion.

At this point in time, you would lose that bet, no discussion about it.

Currently, the infection is spreading through Italy, with Austria and Switzerland next in line (a train from Italy has just been stopped at the Austrain border due to people coughing....). Europe is a continent where countries are tightly interwoven by all kinds of trafic, so there is no chance to stop the virus from jumping borders (even if we actually knew how the virus is spreading) all over Europe. And if you check Europe, there are a lot more than 200 million people around.

Needless to say, Iran is now largely hit by the virus and I don't even imagine how that will evolve. It is already a country in economic trouble and I don't see a chance for the ruling clerics to understand what is going to happen. Next in line: India.



drkohler said:
CrazyGamer2017 said:

I'll bet that there won't even be 230 million infected worldwide, let alone 8 billion.

At this point in time, you would lose that bet, no discussion about it.

Do you realize what you are saying? You are saying that you know for sure that there will be hundred of millions killed by this virus, you know it for sure, it's done, "no discussion about it".  What AIDS, Ebola or the black plague have failed to do, what other viruses whose names I don't even remember have failed to do, you already know for sure that this one will do, no questions asked.

Tell me, why are they even trying to do something about this virus, why do they bother trying to stop the progression, since according to your expertise, the apocalypse is a done deal? Sounds like a waste of time to me.

It's the end of civilization folks cause I can guarantee you all that if 230 million people died in the coming months, the disruption to society would be so deep so damaging that we would... Nope let me correct this, we WILL see a systemic collapse the likes of which have never seen before, even WW2 and the estimated 120 million dead are nothing and that event pretty much stopped civilization for almost 6 years. But here with twice as many dead in a few month as we had during WW2 in almost 6 years, society will collapse. It's the end folks, pack your shit cause we are going away.

You know the craziest part here? You guys blow this virus way WAAAAY out of its actual proportions while at the same time so many people gravely underestimate the consequences of global warming and dismiss it as a simple hoax. No wonder people like Trump get in power and stay there, fake news and ignorance is the only virus that is spreading to hundreds of millions of people and no cure can be found.



It seems my panic a few weeks ago was justified...
If you already have anxiety (particularly health related), I strongly caution having kids.... Because man... The anxiety intensifies exponentially.... Like the death rate seems to for this virus.



1doesnotsimply

SvennoJ said:
I haven't read anything about people being immune to the virus, but sure if it only has the capacity to infect half the population, no worries!

People also were not immune to the 2002 - 2003 Corona virus the one called SARS, still the world did not end, and you did not get half the world population infected by it. If I remember correctly, about 700 people died of that virus and that was the END of it.

Granted this new corona virus has killed more people but we are NOWHERE near 230 million people dead. In fact the only REAL point of reference we have is that previous corona virus and that's it. So I have no idea what expertise leads you folks (other than your unbridled imagination) to believe that this virus will not only act differently than the previous one of its kind but act in a downright apocalyptic way.

At this point you are simply fear mongering, or maybe you are paranoid and giving in to the media induced panic. So if you don't understand this, I don't know what else to tell you. Perhaps I could add that the regular flu kills way more than this corona virus and does so EVERY year and that does not seem to bother anyone, but by all means don't let facts get in the way of your fear mongering.



CrazyGamer2017 said:
Bofferbrauer2 said:
Keep in mind it takes a while between being infected and dying from the infection. Due to this, your 2% is simply too low.If you rather compare the number of deaths vs recoveries, then you'll reach 10%. By that regard, the 230M figure is actually rather conservative

Nope, I'll continue comparing deaths vs infected because that is the only objective measure here. When you get infected, you need to know how that compares to those dying of that same infection, the rest is only partial statistics. Those who are recovering are neither part of the healed nor the dead, therefore they cannot be added to the final figure and thus for the time being 2% to 3% of those infected die and 97% live or are alive, that's just fact.

Then you are making your figures even more incorrect by correlating your 10% to 230 million deaths. EVEN if your 10% of casualties were true (which so far they absolutely are not), you'd still need 2.3 billion people infected to get 230 million or 10% of them dead. This is so beyond the reality as to be downright absurd, and the icing on the cake is you saying these are conservative estimates?

We have 2500 dead and you are already telling me that somehow you know for sure that there will be 230 million casualties as the BEST case scenario but due to that scenario being a conservative one, we must expect how many dead? 300 million? 400 million?

You guys watch too many Hollywood movies and got those mixed up with reality. What you are describing is the result of some super virus and at this point nothing suggests that we are dealing with such a threat and since such a super virus has never taken place in recorded history, I'll continue believing this virus is no different from any other viruses already existing, its only strength resides in the fact that we don't have at this point a cure for it, that's all, but I heard in the news that they expect to get one within a year and a half or so.

Bottom line is we need to keep an eye on this corona virus of course cause it's still a nasty bug but that does not make it some kind of end-of-the-world threat. You guys need not panic, at least not yet.

1. That ain't objective at all. It takes quite a while before someone infected would die so the statistic is skewed against the mortality rate. Hence why your 2% number is simply way too low.

Taking death vs recovery numbers instead is a more realistic notion, since both are about the outcome of an infection, be it positive or negative.

2. Nope, I actually watch seldom any movies. I just know how to read statistics properly, that's all.