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Forums - General Discussion - Coronavirus (COVID-19) Discussion Thread

RolStoppable said: Prediction time!Easter Monday seems to be a rather common deadline for the currently imposed measures in various countries. We can expect that no country this deadline applies to will change their plan prematurely. However...The biggest threat of the coronavirus has been that not much is known about it and the fears and concerns are driven by the events in China early this year. Politicians have a pecking order, such as employment trumps protection of the environment. In the case of corona, we are looking at saving lives having higher priority than employment, especially because corona comes with unpredictability due to the lack of knowledge, including efficient medical treatment and cure. No politician and no governing political party wants to be blamed for letting masses of people die, hence why saving lives is chosen over securing employment.The current measures are putting a huge strain on economies while the support programs of governments have only limited money to distribute. Said money sums may sound huge, but they'll be quickly used up. A popular way to lead a country among politicians is to align with the mood and perception of the majority of the people. One good example of this is the refugee crisis of 2015 in Europe where empathy and solidarity levels were high among Europeans until a tipping point was reached eventually and consequently a drastic shift in politics occured. Corona won't be different. People will become fed up with the limitations for their social life as well as financial woes in many cases. Voices will become louder to change the approach to letting the risk groups stay at home where they are safe while the rest of population can get back to work and get the economy back in gear again.That's why I predict that the current measures won't be extended beyond Easter Monday, because I expect the tipping point to be reached within the next two weeks.Until now politicians have listened to experts who work in the medical fields, but soon economists' voices won't be ignored any longer, because the current measures put more people in danger (of the financial sort) than the virus does. The numbers of infections and deaths will get more questioned with each passing day. An example of this is that a country like Italy counts every death as a corona death if a patient was infected by corona whether it was the only, primary or negligible cause of death. Stats will be brought up concerning the common flu and how that costs thousands of lives each year too (unsurprisingly, among the elderly and people who suffer from diseases), it's just that people aren't aware of it because it is considered normal and not newsworthy. The general population will be informed that ~95% of corona infections have either none, mild or only moderate symptoms and people recover within a week or two.That's when more and more people will question why we are doing quarantine for everyone. The chances are high that an infection won't be a problem for most individuals, so countries should begin to return to normal life. And politicians will follow through on that because unsurprisingly they want to get re-elected.We have the current restrictions because the healthcare capacities are insufficient to handle a large outbreak. It's about keeping control over a situation with a lot of uncertainties, so there's sense to the measures. However, it's economically not feasible to issue an extension beyond the current deadline, so employment will soon take priority over saving lives because the wealth of entire countries is at stake. Fortunately, China is ahead of the curve and serves as a good case study, so that's another good argument to end the quarantine once the current deadline has been reached.And yes, researchers are saying that corona will be around for years. But more and more people will have attained immunity over time and treatment for the illness will also have improved. The way some reports are handled, you could be inclined to think that this is a crisis that will go on for a very long time, but after Easter Monday we'll go back to normality step by step. Being allowed to travel to foreign countries will be among the final steps, but most things should be up and running by the end of April with almost everything else following during the month of May.

Where do you get that idea from Rol?

(btw F this site and it's editing nonsense)

JRPGfan said:

this scares me abit:

^
blue is the "avg" last 5years,
Green is the offical numbers of deaths confirmed to be caused by corona virus in italy,
and the "red" is how many just happended to die dueing this periode.

This is from italy.


https://www.corriere.it/politica/20_marzo_26/the-real-death-toll-for-covid-19-is-at-least-4-times-the-official-numbers-b5af0edc-6eeb-11ea-925b-a0c3cdbe1130.shtml?refresh_ce-cp

The article's name is "The real death toll for Covid-19 is at least 4 times the official numbers"


"Nembro, in the province of Bergamo, is the municipality most affected by Covid-19 in relation to the population. We do not know exactly how many people have been infected, but we know that the number of deaths officially attributed to Covid-19 is 31. We are two physicists: one who became an entrepreneur in the health sector, the other a mayor, in close contact with a very cohesive territory, where we know each other very well. We noticed that something in these official numbers did not come back right, and we decided - together - to check. We looked at the average of the deaths in the municipality of previous years, in the period January - March. Nembro should have had - under normal conditions - about 35 deaths. 158 people were registered dead this year by the municipal offices. That is 123 more than the average. Not 31 more, as it should have been according to the official numbers of the coronavirus epidemic."


Unusual spike in deaths, is noticed. Not counted as covid19 in stats though.

LurkerJ said:

Hate these "number of cases" counters when most people get mild symptoms and most of us don't get tested. Not even NHS staff are being tested at the moment. The confirmed number of cases don't reflect real numbers and it's utterly meaningless to even report on. What's the effing point?

And it just baffles me that we all these western governments are caught with their pants pulled down when the virus is called COVID 2019, why the hell did you wait until 2020 to realize you don't have enough ventilators and beds? it's all so odd... The people, the politicians and the governments had seen the signs of what's going to happen and no sufficient actions were taken, and no one wants to bear the consequences, such a disgusting display of humane childishness entitlement and hysteria.

Oh and when did China become credible enough to actually believe their numbers? When they admittedly withheld and actively silenced health care providers for trying to speak out. Odd.

Happy camping though, introverts are loving life these days


Hence it's better to look at growth patterns. There's one constant, 1.16x average growth, reported above likely means catching up on missed cases, reported below without containment measures in place, you're likely missing a lot of cases. But when the reported growth flattens out for several days in a row it's more safe to assume that measures are working and the actual growth is reversing while new reported cases will consist more of mild cases instead of just confirming the bad ones.



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Snoopy said:

Corona virus update : It still over blown!!!!! People, we are seeing a death rate of about 1.3% and probably much lower than that because there are a lot more people who have the virus, but haven't been tested to be part of that statistic. If you're old stay at home, if you're young go out and have fun!!!

Just be careful not to get into an accident or any other illness because the health care system is currently has better things to do. Oh and don't worry about killing off the 15% of the elderly and causing a lot of those over 30 to get severely ill. Most of them will survive anyway bar some lung scarring.

How many deaths and burned out health care workers does it take to take this seriously? I hope you're joking.

Compared to the flu, last year estimate 34K deaths in the USA, avg 109 a day, USA was averaging over 300 a day already in Covid deaths 2 days ago. Europe was averaging over 2200 deaths daily, 2 days ago. 72K is the estimated Flu burden for Europe, as of yesterday 18.8K people have already died of covid19 in Europe. Even just this first wave will kill more people in a fraction of the time than the flu spreading uncontrolled.

Maybe people will start to take hygiene and the flu shot seriously after we get through this.

Last edited by SvennoJ - on 28 March 2020

SvennoJ said:
Snoopy said:

Corona virus update : It still over blown!!!!! People, we are seeing a death rate of about 1.3% and probably much lower than that because there are a lot more people who have the virus, but haven't been tested to be part of that statistic. If you're old stay at home, if you're young go out and have fun!!!

Just be careful not to get into an accident or any other illness because the health care system is currently has better things to do. Oh and don't worry about killing off the 15% of the elderly and causing a lot of those over 30 to get severely ill. Most of them will survive anyway bar some lung scarring.

How many deaths and burned out health care workers does it take to take this seriously? I hope you're joking.

To be fair, though, our pandemic of the century is peas next to every other one that preceeded it. Let alone average life less than a century ago, when we had to deal with endemic measles and tuberculosis - which together were worse than a perpetual Covid-19 pandemic, in terms of how many people died every single year.

Of course, statistics never convey the impact of personal tragedies that each of these deaths represent...



 

 

 

 

 

LurkerJ said:

Hate these "number of cases" counters when most people get mild symptoms and most of us don't get tested. Not even NHS staff are being tested at the moment. The confirmed number of cases don't reflect real numbers and it's utterly meaningless to even report on. What's the effing point?

And it just baffles me that we all these western governments are caught with their pants pulled down when the virus is called COVID 2019, why the hell did you wait until 2020 to realize you don't have enough ventilators and beds? it's all so odd... The people, the politicians and the governments had seen the signs of what's going to happen and no sufficient actions were taken, and no one wants to bear the consequences, such a disgusting display of humane childishness entitlement and hysteria.

Oh and when did China become credible enough to actually believe their numbers? When they admittedly withheld and actively silenced health care providers for trying to speak out. Odd.

Happy camping though, introverts are loving life these days

Calm down and take a deep breath. The confirmed cases give us the trendline of how things are going, if not the actual number. They are very useful in identifying hotspots as well. 



Just a guy who doesn't want to be bored. Also

Snoopy said:

Corona virus update : It still over blown!!!!! People, we are seeing a death rate of about 1.3% and probably much lower than that because there are a lot more people who have the virus, but haven't been tested to be part of that statistic. If you're old stay at home, if you're young go out and have fun!!!

Are you stupid? Its not that simple because young people with conditions like obesity and asthma are at risk and young people interact with older people. If yhe situation you're describing happens then pur hospitals wont be able to keep up with the amount of cases. 



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John2290 said:
Snoopy said:

Corona virus update : It still over blown!!!!! People, we are seeing a death rate of about 1.3% and probably much lower than that because there are a lot more people who have the virus, but haven't been tested to be part of that statistic. If you're old stay at home, if you're young go out and have fun!!!

After all this, you still don't understand the fundamental issue. Shame on you Snoopy.

You don't understand the fundamental issue, we are going to have a lot more deaths than the coronavirus if the economy goes under. Im saving people, while you try to sabotage everyone's life.



LurkerJ said:

Happy camping though, introverts are loving life these days

Not if they have to spend them with their family 24/7. Hence why in Luxembourg a helpline got started for people who can't get along for so long at once



The BIG problem of the world is that we are ready for war and ready to kill every single person in less than a hour, but not to save lives. Every person dead is a number until is someone we love. Its a realy, realy sad world we live. Maybe we will learn something with this virus, maybe.



RolStoppable said:
John2290 said:

Meanwhile in America...

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8162937/amp/Coronavirus-drives-army-command-teams-infamous-Cheyenne-mountain-bunker.html

They ain't taking chances. 

Of course they aren't. Trump has also founded a space police because it's necessary to defend Earth from an invasion launched by aliens who live on Mars. *snickers*

On that note, I am old enough to remember the days when Twix was called Raider.

Twix was always called Twix in the US.  I think the Raider name for it was only used in Europe.



Snoopy said:
John2290 said:

After all this, you still don't understand the fundamental issue. Shame on you Snoopy.

You don't understand the fundamental issue, we are going to have a lot more deaths than the coronavirus if the economy goes under. Im saving people, while you try to sabotage everyone's life.

I highly doubt that.  One thing that will probably happen in the US after the treat is over there will be a increase in mass shootings due to the increased guns and ammo that is currently being bought.