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Forums - Sales Discussion - Your sales expectations for 2020

Your PS4 and Xbox One predictions were about on point, although you might have been below the mark just a little bit with the PS4.
Same with the PS5 and XSXS, although the XSXS was a tad under the mark.
You were WAY off with the Switch, although to be fair I think everyone was.



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yo33331 said:
Bofferbrauer2 said:

And that's with a Covid boost that was still unknown at the time of making this thread...

Yes, because any normal manufacturer would and have done a price cut in the year when their next console comes out .. (or at least most of them) and it is normal, it have to be done.. with PS4 getting price cut of 50 or even 100$ it would do at least 10-11M even without the covid .. and at least 12M with the covid, because it would be not only just cheaper but also would do more of a difference between it and the PS5 which starts at 399$ for the digital one .. and also other factor that could help was the stock .. in the last couple of months sony did not produce and sent out as much PS4 units as it was needed

As a man who predicted 11M, I feel the pain. I really do think PS4 would've been higher without Covid, because while it did cause a summer boom, it also messed up production. Sony effectively gutted their PS4 lines to prioritize PS5 production asap, and didn't bother lowering the price or bundling because they knew the remaining consoles could just coast to sell through remaining stock. They've shut down all but a couple PS4 sku and seem ready to shift all of their focus onto the PS5.

At this point PS4 will never hit 125M and even 120M looks to be in doubt.



derpysquirtle64 said:

I always was bad at predictions but let's try again:
Switch - 20.5m
PS4 - 10.5m
Xbox One - 3.2m

Next-gen consoles is a tough one as nothing is really known about them yet to make a certain prediction, so it's just a wild guess from my side:
PS5 - 5m
XBSX - 3m

This was totally off as it seems, at least I somehow managed to get Xbox One right on point.



 

the answer outs now



I missed this thread, but I’d have almost certainly predicted 27.5 million.



I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.

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Shadow1980 said:

Well, I guess there was a thread on this here at VGC. And it proves a point I made in another thread: nobody expected the Switch to sell as well as it did in 2020. Except for two outliers, one of which involved a very broad range of estimates (the center point on the range was 21.5M, with the range extending ±3.5M from that), the average prediction for the Switch for 2020 in this thread was around 20-21M, and the better of those two outliers still fell short. Related to this, the NPD-specific prediction thread on Era for 2020 as a whole had predictions for the U.S. that were all below 7M, but usually above 6M; the actual number was 30.4% better than the most generous prediction, and over 40% better than the average of all the predictions. And for the professionals, I know at least Matt Piscatella wasn't expecting the Switch to be up.

The impacts of the pandemic on consumer spending were massive. There was a huge increase in spending on at-home entertainment, obviously including video games, and, at least in the U.S., that spending was aided by stimulus checks. Lots of people tried to argue against that fact or at least downplay its effects (mainly regarding the Switch), but, well, there you have it. The Switch beat the average prediction by 33-40%. When these predictions were made, every other variable (Animal Crossing, potential new models or price cuts, residual effects from the Lite, etc.) was known and accounted for except one: COVID-19. In January 2020, nobody was expecting that a disease that was still in the background (the first confirmed cases in the U.S. & Europe weren't until late January) would have become serious enough by March to result in a lockdown, with places like movie theaters and bowling alleys and restaurants being closed for protracted periods of time. But because of the pandemic and its effects on spending, every console unexpectedly over-performed, at least as long as supply was able to sustain it (the PS4 & XBO declined rapidly once stock started to run out).

Had 2020 been a normal year, the Switch would have sold a lot less than it did. Meanwhile, the PS4 & XBO would have continued to be way down YoY during the spring just as they were in January & February, though they'd almost certainly have a better second half of the year than what they actually had. Hard to say if they would have sold better overall for the year as a whole, though.

No one is disputing that Switch sold more because of COVID.  Instead, I and some others are saying you are too pessimistic on your Switch predictions.  You were predicting that Switch would be down in the US in at the beginning of 2020.  Most people in this thread were predicting Switch sales would be up in 2020.  You stated in this post the average was 21.5m and that means people were predicting sales would be up.  Obviously, this thread is about worldwide sales and not US sales, but I can definitely tell you that I thought Switch sales would have been up in the US when this thread was made.  I would wager that most of the people who predicted Switch sales to be up worldwide would have said the same about the US.

The way you come across is that you think Switch sold an extra 10m+ worldwide in 2020 because of COVID.  And consequently as soon as COVID ends, you expect Switch sales to fall off a cliff.  I do think Switch sold more because of COVID but not 10m+ more.  You are too pessimistic in your Switch predictions.



CoviD wasn't the biggest reason the Switch did really well in 2020, Animal Crossing was. It's literally the fastest selling game in history on any one platform, and the runner-up isn't even close.



I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.

"Switch sold well because of Covid" yeah cause like there weren't any other consoles at the time of the lockdowns nor there were 3 big exclusives launched during the first half of the year for the PS4.

I mean, Switch was a 299$/€ console sold with Animal Crossing while the PS4 was a 299$/€ console sold with FF7 Remake, The Last Of Us 2 and Ghost of Tsushima, and still the second one sold less.



Shadow1980 said:

First off, I actually was given grief by some people for suggesting the pandemic was the primary driver of the Switch's sales growth in 2020. I had at least a couple of people try to flat out deny that fact outright and state that Animal Crossing was the primary driver. What little evidence that was offered failed to establish that AC was the primary driver, and all their commentary just came across as a post hoc means of rationalizing away the pandemic's effects, presumably because the existence of the "COVID bump" made it seem like the Switch somehow didn't "earn" its sales in 2020 on its own merits. Most serious commentators and analysts agree that COVID was the primary driver of increased demand last year, and it seems the only people insisting on arguing otherwise were random "platform partisans" on the internet who don't like the idea of seeing an asterisk next to the record of their favorite systems.

And I haven't even touched on Japan and Europe yet. The Switch is currently running an absolutely massive deficit against the DS in Japan, and it's unlikely to make up for it as it will have to have post-Year 4 sales far, far beyond any other system in history in that country (over 14.6M from now onward, to be exact; the current record is only about half that). In Europe, the Switch isn't even close to the halfway point of what the DS and PS2 sold.

For the Switch to even have a chance at matching the DS globally or even in any specific region it will need to both A) benefit from a protracted recovery from the pandemic, and B) require that Nintendo support it in late life as well as Sony does their systems. Anything short of that I think will result in it failing to be a legitimate contender for the new #1 spot, and even if both things happen the Switch could still fall well short of the DS.

Beating the 360 & PS2 in U.S. is within the realm of possibility. Beating the DS in any one of the major markets or the PS2 globally is not. The idea that the Switch has a realistic shot at beating the DS is beyond reasonable optimism, and assumes future sales that are well beyond the norm based on an assumption of long-term continuation of last year's sales figures, even though those were dependent on circumstances that were most definitely not normal. 120-130M globally seems to the be the most likely final lifetime total globally, with an NA/JP/EU/ROW split of 40%/22%/23%/15%. Anything above this I would consider to be "optimistic" while anything below it I would consider to be "pessimistic." But that's just me.

While I agree that covid was probably the bigger factor for the Switch being up so much last year I do think your Switch sales projection is unrealistically low. The PS4 will end up at around 120M and the Switch is now tracking ahead of it significantly and it'll be at around 100M by the end of this year so there would need to be unrealistically high drops in the following years for sales to land in the 120's. Assuming 2020 is the peak year the switch could have drops like the Wii did and still make it to the 130's so based on that 120-130M is a pretty unrealistic middle range I'd say and 130-140 is a realistic minimum one. For Japan it is looking like the Switch will have a sales curve with high post-year 4 sales so if it doesn't beat the DS making it to 30M and getting fairly close is likely I think.



Shadow1980 said:
Norion said:

While I agree that covid was probably the bigger factor for the Switch being up so much last year I do think your Switch sales projection is unrealistically low. The PS4 will end up at around 120M and the Switch is now tracking ahead of it significantly and it'll be at around 100M by the end of this year so there would need to be unrealistically high drops in the following years for sales to land in the 120's. Assuming 2020 is the peak year the switch could have drops like the Wii did and still make it to the 130's so based on that 120-130M is a pretty unrealistic middle range I'd say and 130-140 is a realistic minimum one. For Japan it is looking like the Switch will have a sales curve with high post-year 4 sales so if it doesn't beat the DS making it to 30M and getting fairly close is likely I think.

@Bolded. In the U.S. & Japan, maybe. In Europe... not so much. Let's say the Switch ends up at around 45M in the U.S. and about 28-29M (halfway between the DS and 3DS) in Japan. In just those two countries, that would give the Switch a surplus over the PS4 of around 28M, ±0.5M. That's definitely a lot. However, the Switch has been tracking well behind the PS4 in Europe. While the PS4 is on track to sell over 50M units in Europe, not too much less than what the DS & PS2 sold, the Switch is going to fall well short of that. Assuming Europe stays about proportional to Japan, Switch sales in the region could end at around 30-32M. That would be a roughly 20M deficit against the PS4 in the region. If the Switch's U.S.+JP surplus is 28M, that Europe deficit would result in a net surplus of only around 8M. If rest-of-world sales for the Switch fall a few million units short of the Switch, that could negate even more of that US+JP surplus.

So, 125-130M is definitely possible, and is what I'm going with for right now. I could totally see NA/JP/Europe/RoW regional split of, say, 50M/28M/32M/15M. The lower end of the 120M range would be a worst-case scenario, and I don't see the Switch failing to at least match the PS4 globally (within a <2% margin), but I don't see it blowing away the PS4 by 20M+, either.

Europe is the Switch's weakest major region though it is now tracking ahead of the PS3 there by a decent bit so it only doing low 30's there is very unlikely I think and it's already at 10M in RoW and is really picking up lately with it having sold over 5M last year so it should be at least 13M by the end of this year so it's pretty much guaranteed it gets past 15M. 125-130 is on the low side in my view but it's an acceptable estimate. My main issue was you saying a projection below 120-130 was pessimistic since there's no chance it ends up in the 110's at this point but you say low 120's is the worst-case scenario so I'm guessing you've moved your worst-case up somewhat. I do think low 130's is a more realistic worst-case scenario but low 120's isn't that much lower so nothing really wrong with thinking that's the worst-case. As long as a worse-case projection has it getting to the 120's it's fine.