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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Eurogamer: PS5 and Xbox Series X Spec Leak.

HollyGamer on 31 December 2019
setsunatenshi said:
HollyGamer said:

Both are using RDNA, and  that already 100% confirmed, If one of them choose GCN instead RDNA that will be foolish. Even Lisa Su from AMD made that statement at E3 2019 and CES 2019 th. Sony  next gen machine will be using Navi, the same thing also happen when Phil Spencer shows at CES 2019 at AMD press conference when he explained that Xbox will be using Navi (RDNA).

if you said increasing on efficiency , then both  will be efficient and both will be able to perform better then last gen, but comparing between them will still be difficult on real life scenario . We will just have to wait and see on Digital Foundry video and again i mention Digital Foundry LOL because it's really difficult to compare. 

Real performance will be somehow equal with some minor difference like one running 60 fps and one dip at 55 fps ,  unless if both using different architecture (one GCN and one RDNA) then there will be generation difference and generation gap, (like Switch VS PS4/Xbox One graphic comparison).

last gen xbox was dragged through mud due to the power differences (together with higher price tag) and rightfully so. i was having similar arguments with MS fanboys that were arguing this same points, trying to defend the indefensible. it would be very hypocritical to turn around now and say that 30'ish % power difference is negligible. it's just not, it's very significant, even more so when both will share a 90+% similar library of games, meaning all those games are running objectively better on one platform over the other.

i'm very partial to sony's 1st party, care zero so far about any xbox exclusives, so i probably will still pick the ps5 as my main console. this doesn't mean i won't admit what's absolutely obvious IF these specs will be real.

i'm very confident they aren't still, so won't preemptively defend them like some are doing 

You are free to argue if PS5 sit at 7 teraflop while Xbox X at 12, that will be at 40 to 45 percentage difference and that is huge. The reality is if the rumor is true and they are choosing to use the above spec then PS5 is at 9.2 while Xbox is 12 the the difference is just 30%. PS5 posible will have cheaper price than Xbox X (that's a given due to APU size ) . 

Of course we will see a difference but using the number i mentioned above i don't see a big problem especially when PS5 will be price cheaper. Maybe for some , but not all people care. 

I  want PS5 spec and power close to Xbox X spec, (my ideal is close at 10%). But  I am ready to accept anything on reasonable price. For sure we still don't know what the real spec is, others suggest this info was old info from 2017 and some said it's an old info from 2018.  Regardless of that, we don't know anything until Sony unveil and Mark Cerny explain on the stage.   



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setsunatenshi on 31 December 2019
HollyGamer said:
setsunatenshi said:

last gen xbox was dragged through mud due to the power differences (together with higher price tag) and rightfully so. i was having similar arguments with MS fanboys that were arguing this same points, trying to defend the indefensible. it would be very hypocritical to turn around now and say that 30'ish % power difference is negligible. it's just not, it's very significant, even more so when both will share a 90+% similar library of games, meaning all those games are running objectively better on one platform over the other.

i'm very partial to sony's 1st party, care zero so far about any xbox exclusives, so i probably will still pick the ps5 as my main console. this doesn't mean i won't admit what's absolutely obvious IF these specs will be real.

i'm very confident they aren't still, so won't preemptively defend them like some are doing 

You are free to argue if PS5 sit at 7 teraflop while Xbox X at 12, that will be at 40 to 45 percentage difference and that is huge. The reality is if the rumor is true and they are choosing to use the above spec then PS5 is at 9.2 while Xbox is 12 the the difference is just 30%. PS5 posible will have cheaper price than Xbox X (that's a given due to APU size ) . 

Of course we will see a difference but using the number i mentioned above i don't see a big problem especially when PS5 will be price cheaper. Maybe for some , but not all people care. 

I  want PS5 spec and power close to Xbox X spec, (my ideal is close at 10%). But  I am ready to accept anything on reasonable price. For sure we still don't know what the real spec is, others suggest this info was old info from 2017 and some said it's an old info from 2018.  Regardless of that, we don't know anything until Sony unveil and Mark Cerny explain on the stage.   

that's fine, I think it's as close to common ground we will find. I still find anything above 10% pretty meaningful, but that's me personally.

the leaks are so suspicious, i still don't see how MS will go with 50+ CUs and keep the price  at all under control. fingers crossed we can see 2 skus since day one, i don't mind paying a premium for a premium :)



JRPGfan on 31 December 2019
setsunatenshi said:
JRPGfan said:

Well there you go your wrong :)
Its not a all or nothing thing, its a degree's of something thing. (I know this for a fact)

Same with tessellation, at small amounts its not very demanding, and at higher levels it can be insanely demanding.
And the same thing is true with it, lesser and lesser gains in visual quality, from more and more demanding compute.

Ray Tracing works with beams, that bounce, and how many beams and how many times they bounce, effects the sharpness and amount, of reflections you see in the video game.

Xbox One Series X, if its ~3 Tflops more powerfull, will just have slightly better looking reflectings, your character is looking at a mirror/window/water puddle.
Because they ll impliment more ray traceing beams, and bounces of them.

i'm not saying you're wrong in the current implementation of ray tracing (not sure you're entirely right either), but what i'm talking about if having games created with ray tracing in mind. meaning, you have a source of light in a room and the light bounces off surfaces to create a more realistic setting.

right now you have pre baked lighting / shadows when games are made which mean resource time is spent trying to create that visual effect. with ray tracing that development time should not exist and a developer should only have to input light sources (as an example) and let them play out in the scene. in this example there's no "more ray tracing", only more/less level of detail.

again, happy to be corrected on this if i'm wrong

The consoles will only be powerfull enough, to run ray traceing like its currently running on PC.
As a small extra thing, that gives reflections to some surfaces.

Things will still be "pre baked" for most things, because its cost effecient (ei. looks almost the same, doesnt require much gpu compute to pull off).
These consoles arnt going to magically be able to do things, not even the best of gameing PCs can do today.

Take Battlefield 5, thats what console ray traceing will be.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRH0ug7GOlc


Im assumeing both PS5 & XBSX will have ray traceing in Battlefield 6 or whatever, and it might look slightly better on the XBSX.

"again, happy to be corrected on this if i'm wrong"

Your wrong again :) Even PC games with ray traceing, dont do everything via that.
I doubt consoles will either, there will still be tons of stuff pre-baked, because doing otherwise, is way too demanding on the GPU.

Last edited by JRPGfan - on 31 December 2019

thismeintiel on 31 December 2019
Dulfite said:
I think Microsoft will be very aggressive with pricing here. They know they screwed up at the start of this generation and PS4 took advantage. MS has a lot more money in the bank than Sony does as well, so I'm going to predict they sell it for a loss ($400) and make up for it with other profits. Heck, with Xbox gold, they could sell for $350 and be fine as long as people buy probably at least 3 games.
Ps5 may be the same price, but Microsoft will advertise itself as more power for the same buck. Sony probably won't be willing to lower their price as much, just a guess.

Not sure how many times it has to be said, but I'll say it, again, MS=/=Xbox. MS is not going to give Xbox the budget to lose them billions by taking a $200+ loss on HW, not when they are focusing on services as their future. You think the shareholders were loud at the beginning of this gen, they would be 10x louder at the beginning of next gen.

PlayStation, on the other hand, is one of Sony's top priorities. They are going to make sure it sells. And if that means taking a deeper loss on HW, then so be it. And I think plan on it, hence why the PS4 isn't already $199. They're building up a profit buffer. 

kirby007 said:
Sounds like the software based raytracing, looks a bit more likely

This has already been proven wrong from Sony themselves. Not sure why people insist on continuing this narrative. Actually, yes I do. FUD.



 

LudicrousSpeed on 31 December 2019

I think both consoles will be powerful and the specs very close but damn these rumors and leaks have been amazing just for the Reeeeeesetera meltdowns 😆



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setsunatenshi on 31 December 2019
JRPGfan said:
setsunatenshi said:

i'm not saying you're wrong in the current implementation of ray tracing (not sure you're entirely right either), but what i'm talking about if having games created with ray tracing in mind. meaning, you have a source of light in a room and the light bounces off surfaces to create a more realistic setting.

right now you have pre baked lighting / shadows when games are made which mean resource time is spent trying to create that visual effect. with ray tracing that development time should not exist and a developer should only have to input light sources (as an example) and let them play out in the scene. in this example there's no "more ray tracing", only more/less level of detail.

again, happy to be corrected on this if i'm wrong

The consoles will only be powerfull enough, to run ray traceing like its currently running on PC.
As a small extra thing, that gives reflections to some surfaces.

Things will still be "pre baked" for most things, because its cost effecient (ei. looks almost the same, doesnt require much gpu compute to pull off).
These consoles arnt going to magically be able to do things, not even the best of gameing PCs can do today.

Take Battlefield 5, thats what console ray traceing will be.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRH0ug7GOlc


Im assumeing both PS5 & XBSX will have ray traceing in Battlefield 6 or whatever, and it might look slightly better on the XBSX.

i am well aware of the current implementations and why they are not at all impressive

the fact is the games were still developed for a majority of users that does not own the rtx cards.

the entire point of having a new generation with ray tracing capabilities from the start is to allow developers to create games with ray tracing not just as an option but by default. the metro demo that was shown at the nvidia rtx showcase was quite powerful in highlighting the differences.

anything falling short if this type of ray tracing implementation would be insignificant. if that was to be the case, then i'm with you and we should not use it.



Conina on 31 December 2019
HollyGamer said:

actually the gap between 9.2 to 12 teraflop are around 28 to 30 % less then PS4 pro to Xbox One X 42%

Trust me we will not see the same thing with PS5 and Xbox 12 because both will be using the same CPU that rid all of the bottle neck and developer have many technique like VRS (variable rate shading)  CRB , etc etc that will be available on both consoles. also having a faster GPU clock at 2 Ghz and the same bandwith  already have benefit for both  design and will ended  very close.

PS5 has a great  spec while Xbox X has slightly better sepc then PS5, unlike PS4 with great design and Xbox One is bad design choice. 

Trust you? But you told us several times that "GPU Nvidia 2080 super is bare minimum" to play PC versions of multiplatform games after the PS5/XSX launch.

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=241513&page=1

And now suddenly 30% less performance will not be noticeable and without going to Digital foundry nobody will be able to pint point the difference?

So why not also lower the bar for "bare minimum" on PC, if anything below 30% ain't noticeable? And there you can tweak even more with the settings, so 40% or even 50% less than a "GPU Nvidia 2080 super" should be okay, don't you think?



jason1637 on 31 December 2019
thismeintiel said:
Dulfite said:
I think Microsoft will be very aggressive with pricing here. They know they screwed up at the start of this generation and PS4 took advantage. MS has a lot more money in the bank than Sony does as well, so I'm going to predict they sell it for a loss ($400) and make up for it with other profits. Heck, with Xbox gold, they could sell for $350 and be fine as long as people buy probably at least 3 games.
Ps5 may be the same price, but Microsoft will advertise itself as more power for the same buck. Sony probably won't be willing to lower their price as much, just a guess.

Not sure how many times it has to be said, but I'll say it, again, MS=/=Xbox. MS is not going to give Xbox the budget to lose them billions by taking a $200+ loss on HW, not when they are focusing on services as their future. You think the shareholders were loud at the beginning of this gen, they would be 10x louder at the beginning of next gen.

PlayStation, on the other hand, is one of Sony's top priorities. They are going to make sure it sells. And if that means taking a deeper loss on HW, then so be it. And I think plan on it, hence why the PS4 isn't already $199. They're building up a profit buffer. 

kirby007 said:
Sounds like the software based raytracing, looks a bit more likely

This has already been proven wrong from Sony themselves. Not sure why people insist on continuing this narrative. Actually, yes I do. FUD.

MS has done this before with the Xbox and the 360. They weren't making profit until late in the 360 era. Even with gamepass I doubt they're making profit either.  I could see them just eating the loss and selling at $500 because anything more is DOA. 



JRPGfan on 31 December 2019
jason1637 said:
thismeintiel said:

Not sure how many times it has to be said, but I'll say it, again, MS=/=Xbox. MS is not going to give Xbox the budget to lose them billions by taking a $200+ loss on HW, not when they are focusing on services as their future. You think the shareholders were loud at the beginning of this gen, they would be 10x louder at the beginning of next gen.

PlayStation, on the other hand, is one of Sony's top priorities. They are going to make sure it sells. And if that means taking a deeper loss on HW, then so be it. And I think plan on it, hence why the PS4 isn't already $199. They're building up a profit buffer. 

This has already been proven wrong from Sony themselves. Not sure why people insist on continuing this narrative. Actually, yes I do. FUD.

MS has done this before with the Xbox and the 360. They weren't making profit until late in the 360 era. Even with gamepass I doubt they're making profit either.  I could see them just eating the loss and selling at $500 because anything more is DOA. 

Pretty sure currently gamepass is loseing them more than they make from it.
Thats a "down the road, this will make us lots of money" type of thing, while your building the user base to sustain things.

Yes both sony and MS lost lots of money on PS3/Xb360.... Im not sure either really wants to go back to doing so.



thismeintiel on 31 December 2019
jason1637 said:
thismeintiel said:

Not sure how many times it has to be said, but I'll say it, again, MS=/=Xbox. MS is not going to give Xbox the budget to lose them billions by taking a $200+ loss on HW, not when they are focusing on services as their future. You think the shareholders were loud at the beginning of this gen, they would be 10x louder at the beginning of next gen.

PlayStation, on the other hand, is one of Sony's top priorities. They are going to make sure it sells. And if that means taking a deeper loss on HW, then so be it. And I think plan on it, hence why the PS4 isn't already $199. They're building up a profit buffer. 

This has already been proven wrong from Sony themselves. Not sure why people insist on continuing this narrative. Actually, yes I do. FUD.

MS has done this before with the Xbox and the 360. They weren't making profit until late in the 360 era. Even with gamepass I doubt they're making profit either.  I could see them just eating the loss and selling at $500 because anything more is DOA. 

A big difference. They were doing it to take down Sony. This time around, MS has telegraphed very well where they are headed. Streaming/online services.  That's why XBO HW was not heavily subsidized, but they are willing to lose money on things like Gears 5 to push GamePass with $1 deals.

I think $500 still might be a possibility, but expect more of a $550-$600 price if they really are going with 56 CUs. However, I have seen some crazy suggestions that MS could subsidize it to $399 and win the gen.