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Forums - Sony - How would you feel if the PS5 dev kit design was actually the PS5 design?

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What do you think?

I would be fine with that 19 24.05%
 
It's irrelevant 9 11.39%
 
That looks pretty bad 15 18.99%
 
AMAZING! 8 10.13%
 
That s**t looks awful! 12 15.19%
 
Did we go back to the 90's? 3 3.80%
 
V for Vendetta 3 3.80%
 
Would rather have it look like a box 4 5.06%
 
I just threw up in my mouth a little bit 5 6.33%
 
Should continue to stack ... 1 1.27%
 
Total:79
DonFerrari on 18 October 2019
EricHiggin said:
Pemalite said:

Yes they are certainly being disingenuous.
In saying that, they are trying to amp-up/promote their console, so there is always dubious claims everytime we enter a new console generation... The frustrating part is that everyone tends to take it as gospel and thus believe it.

PCI-E 4.0 NVMe drives will theoretically top out at around 8GB/s of sequential reads, which is likely what the Playstation 5 will have, taking advantage of AMD's latest technology. - That is stupidly fast whichever way you cut the cake considering most SSD setups today top out at around 4GB/s thanks to PCI-E 3.0 bandwidth limitations.

But the PC can do PCI-E 4.0 x16, and it can do RAID. - Epyc comes with 128x PCI-E 4.0 lanes, which is a theoretical max of 256GB/s of aggregate PCI-E bandwidth available for an SSD setup. - Which is simply an impossible number for a console to cost effectively have for next-gen.

PCI-E 5.0 will likely be available in 2022, Intel will support it with LGA 4677 sockets... And that could theoretically take it to 512GB/s or half a Terabyte per second.
PCI-E 6.0 is being ratified right now with system implementations after that, which will likely double things again.

I thought it was that it would have the fastest SSD, compared to a PC equivalent in price to the PS5. So how fast is the SSD in a $500 PC generally? The PS5 will be faster than that, but won't make it the fastest SSD on the market by late 2020. It may however be faster than anticipated, due to it's customization and integration into the console.

Nope. He didn't say compared to equivalent PC. He just said available to PC. Because you could either make a barebone PC with only the SSD being good, or other components being good and throwing a very old HDD on it, both could cost 500 so it would be pointless comparison.

Lafiel said:
Pemalite said:

Yes they are certainly being disingenuous.
In saying that, they are trying to amp-up/promote their console, so there is always dubious claims everytime we enter a new console generation... The frustrating part is that everyone tends to take it as gospel and thus believe it.

PCI-E 4.0 NVMe drives will theoretically top out at around 8GB/s of sequential reads, which is likely what the Playstation 5 will have, taking advantage of AMD's latest technology. - That is stupidly fast whichever way you cut the cake considering most SSD setups today top out at around 4GB/s thanks to PCI-E 3.0 bandwidth limitations.

But the PC can do PCI-E 4.0 x16, and it can do RAID. - Epyc comes with 128x PCI-E 4.0 lanes, which is a theoretical max of 256GB/s of aggregate PCI-E bandwidth available for an SSD setup. - Which is simply an impossible number for a console to cost effectively have for next-gen.

PCI-E 5.0 will likely be available in 2022, Intel will support it with LGA 4677 sockets... And that could theoretically take it to 512GB/s or half a Terabyte per second.
PCI-E 6.0 is being ratified right now with system implementations after that, which will likely double things again.

aren't you being a bit disingenuous yourself here?

Unless I missed a more recent comment, Cerny said it was better than anything in current PCs when PCI-E 4.0 wasn't released. And an Epyc CPU is not something for "PCs" (_personal_ computers), it's server hardware. The kind of raids you describe are extremely unlikely to be used for personal/private use.

I would like to know what would be the reasonable limit of what was available to PC at the time. Because I can sulk up Mark being hyperbolic or a little disingenuous/not transparent, but a flat ou lie on the like of saying they will have a SSD faster than what is available to PC but meaning "faster than HDD" doesn't make much sense. We can throw all hell to Ken Kutaragi on PS3, but he wasn't lying when he touted Cell capabilities versus other chips, it just didn't matter as much as the numbers suggested.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

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0D0 on 18 October 2019

No. Just make it the usual boring black box.



God bless You.

My Total Sales prediction for PS4 by the end of 2021: 110m+

When PS4 will hit 100m consoles sold: Before Christmas 2019

There were three ravens sat on a tree / They were as blacke as they might be / The one of them said to his mate, Where shall we our breakfast take?


Xxain on 18 October 2019

Has anybody considered the V is 5?



DonFerrari on 18 October 2019
Xxain said:
Has anybody considered the V is 5?

Many



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

Pemalite on 18 October 2019
EricHiggin said:

Ok, so we're both guessing at something, since neither of us know for sure, and neither of us are suggesting anything that would be highly unlikely or out of the question, and yet $500 for the PS5 is ridiculous enough for you to brush it off like it means nothing, yet PS basing the SSD off of existing standards and tech should be taken more seriously? It's not like we don't know what consoles used to cost, presently cost, or what they could cost, based on many factors. You're right that PS hasn't said anything about price, other than Cerny saying, "it'll be appealing to gamers in light of it's advanced feature set", but they also haven't said anything about the SSD, other than it uses PCIe 4.0 and will load really fast.

Your defense of Sony is admirable, but misplaced... And no I am not "Guessing at something".

Sony made the blanket statement that the PS5 "has a raw bandwidth higher than any SSD available for PCs." - And clearly I have proven that statement to be absolutely false.
https://www.wired.com/story/exclusive-sony-next-gen-console/

There was no mention of PC's price, there was no mention of the Playstation 5's price, thus price doesn't enter into the argument, it's that simple. - I take issue with Sony's statement, not the pricing of it's hardware or the company itself.

To then have someone like yourself to leverage "price" to shift the goal post (Which is a logical fallacy) is just continuing the disingenuous narrative already put in play.

Yes the SSD in the Playstation 5 will be "really fast". - But it can't beat the PC, it can beat some PC's however.

EricHiggin said:

While using existing tech with minor customizations is totally possible based on PS4's semi-custom tech, the PS4 was also coming off of a terrible gen for PS themselves, and going into a world of 'consoles are dead'. PS5 is coming off PS4 like PS3 came off PS2, and we all know what that led to. Now while I by no means think we're likely getting anything as unique or expensive as the PS3 was, I think expecting PS5 to simply be an upgraded Pro is setting the bar to low. I would guess we're going to see less minor semi custom tech, and more significant semi custom tech.

How much do you think the PS5 will be, based on whatever factors you would use at this time to make a reasonable guess?

The Playstation 4's "Semi custom" technology was still derived from PC based technology.

I never stated the Playstation 5 is just an upgraded Pro, thus the bar isn't being set low.

As for price, I don't know... And personally I don't really care, I will buy whatever console offers the most compelling overall solution.

Lafiel said:

aren't you being a bit disingenuous yourself here?

Unless I missed a more recent comment, Cerny said it was better than anything in current PCs when PCI-E 4.0 wasn't released. And an Epyc CPU is not something for "PCs" (_personal_ computers), it's server hardware. The kind of raids you describe are extremely unlikely to be used for personal/private use.

You can have PCI-E 3.0 SSD setups that will beat the Playstation 5's or PCI-E 4.0 SSD setups, it depends how many PCI-E lanes you want to throw at the problem.

Sony made a claim, that the Playstation 5's SSD setup is faster than the PC, they didn't specify what PC in particular.




www.youtube.com/@Pemalite

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Lafiel on 18 October 2019
Pemalite said:

Lafiel said:

aren't you being a bit disingenuous yourself here?

Unless I missed a more recent comment, Cerny said it was better than anything in current PCs when PCI-E 4.0 wasn't released. And an Epyc CPU is not something for "PCs" (_personal_ computers), it's server hardware. The kind of raids you describe are extremely unlikely to be used for personal/private use.

You can have PCI-E 3.0 SSD setups that will beat the Playstation 5's or PCI-E 4.0 SSD setups, it depends how many PCI-E lanes you want to throw at the problem.

Sony made a claim, that the Playstation 5's SSD setup is faster than the PC, they didn't specify what PC in particular.

You quoted Cerny's statement yourself "higher than any SSD available for PCs" - that's singular = 1 SSD. A raid setup is not a singular SSD.



method114 on 18 October 2019

I've never cared about the way a console looks. It's about as important as controllers are (which is way more important to people than I realized). As long as a controller is good enough I'm ok with it. Although I hate the way I can't just set my PS4 controller down without hitting the trigger on accident. Causes HuluNetflix to fast forwardrewind.



mjk45 on 18 October 2019

I wonder why would Sony put the dev kits inside something like that, you would think that they would just put it in a PC style case , especially since history shows that finished consoles differ from the dev kits, and the heating profiles and other case concerns are tested in the lab.



Research shows Video games  help make you smarter, so why am I an idiot

EricHiggin on 18 October 2019
DonFerrari said:
EricHiggin said:

I thought it was that it would have the fastest SSD, compared to a PC equivalent in price to the PS5. So how fast is the SSD in a $500 PC generally? The PS5 will be faster than that, but won't make it the fastest SSD on the market by late 2020. It may however be faster than anticipated, due to it's customization and integration into the console.

Nope. He didn't say compared to equivalent PC. He just said available to PC. Because you could either make a barebone PC with only the SSD being good, or other components being good and throwing a very old HDD on it, both could cost 500 so it would be pointless comparison.

This seems to be the case, but even if he did, the point would be comparable overall based on the price. To make a barebones PC with weak parts that has an SSD as capable as PS5's is supposed to be, wouldn't be equivalent, not even close. The PS5 won't be super weak hardware with a top of the line SSD.



PS1   - ! - We must build a console that can alert our enemies.

PS2  - @- We must build a console that offers online living room gaming.

PS3   - #- We must build a console that’s powerful, social, costs and does everything.

PS4   - $- We must build a console that’s affordable, charges for services, and pumps out exclusives.

PRO  -%-We must build a console that's VR ready, checkerboard upscales, and sells but a fraction of the money printer.

PS5   - ^ -We must build a console that’s a generational cross product, with RT lighting, and price hiking.

PRO  -&- We must build a console that Super Res upscales and continues the cost increases.

EricHiggin on 19 October 2019
Pemalite said:
EricHiggin said:

Ok, so we're both guessing at something, since neither of us know for sure, and neither of us are suggesting anything that would be highly unlikely or out of the question, and yet $500 for the PS5 is ridiculous enough for you to brush it off like it means nothing, yet PS basing the SSD off of existing standards and tech should be taken more seriously? It's not like we don't know what consoles used to cost, presently cost, or what they could cost, based on many factors. You're right that PS hasn't said anything about price, other than Cerny saying, "it'll be appealing to gamers in light of it's advanced feature set", but they also haven't said anything about the SSD, other than it uses PCIe 4.0 and will load really fast.

Your defense of Sony is admirable, but misplaced... And no I am not "Guessing at something".

Sony made the blanket statement that the PS5 "has a raw bandwidth higher than any SSD available for PCs." - And clearly I have proven that statement to be absolutely false.
https://www.wired.com/story/exclusive-sony-next-gen-console/

There was no mention of PC's price, there was no mention of the Playstation 5's price, thus price doesn't enter into the argument, it's that simple. - I take issue with Sony's statement, not the pricing of it's hardware or the company itself.

To then have someone like yourself to leverage "price" to shift the goal post (Which is a logical fallacy) is just continuing the disingenuous narrative already put in play.

Yes the SSD in the Playstation 5 will be "really fast". - But it can't beat the PC, it can beat some PC's however.

EricHiggin said:

While using existing tech with minor customizations is totally possible based on PS4's semi-custom tech, the PS4 was also coming off of a terrible gen for PS themselves, and going into a world of 'consoles are dead'. PS5 is coming off PS4 like PS3 came off PS2, and we all know what that led to. Now while I by no means think we're likely getting anything as unique or expensive as the PS3 was, I think expecting PS5 to simply be an upgraded Pro is setting the bar to low. I would guess we're going to see less minor semi custom tech, and more significant semi custom tech.

How much do you think the PS5 will be, based on whatever factors you would use at this time to make a reasonable guess?

The Playstation 4's "Semi custom" technology was still derived from PC based technology.

I never stated the Playstation 5 is just an upgraded Pro, thus the bar isn't being set low.

As for price, I don't know... And personally I don't really care, I will buy whatever console offers the most compelling overall solution.

I'm not defending anybody and I'm not saying you're definitely wrong about the SSD. I'm saying for you to assume based on what info is available, that you're likely correct about the SSD set up, but to take the info that is available about historical console specs and pricing, etc, and say that $500 isn't a likely price and shouldn't be taken into account at all, is just nonsense. The price of the console determines to some degree what's inside it, which would effect your SSD guess.

I also never said the PS5 SSD would beat all PC's or anything close to that.

Yes, the PS4 is based off of existing PC tech that has been semi customized for it's application.

By Pro I meant minor semi customizations and not major one's, since it will be a new gen but also because the income is there since the brand is hot.

So if PS5 is $999 but worth $1,499 and Scarlett is $499 but worth $699, you'll choose the PS5 since that will clearly be the most compelling, since price doesn't matter? What about the other tens of millions of people who want a PS5 but can't come close to affording it, ever? Tough luck? Maybe PS might want to pick an affordable price and base the hardware around that, with potential reasonable subsidies?



PS1   - ! - We must build a console that can alert our enemies.

PS2  - @- We must build a console that offers online living room gaming.

PS3   - #- We must build a console that’s powerful, social, costs and does everything.

PS4   - $- We must build a console that’s affordable, charges for services, and pumps out exclusives.

PRO  -%-We must build a console that's VR ready, checkerboard upscales, and sells but a fraction of the money printer.

PS5   - ^ -We must build a console that’s a generational cross product, with RT lighting, and price hiking.

PRO  -&- We must build a console that Super Res upscales and continues the cost increases.