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Forums - Sales Discussion - Global Hardware 14 September 2019 (PS4 Tops 100M)

EricHiggin on 27 September 2019
EricHiggin said:

Maybe there's way more work to it than I could imagine when it comes to having Switch sales separated, but the Switch game sales should be able to stay combined shouldn't they, so why not just separate the hardware? Just drop Vita off the chart since it's dead, move everything over to the right, and add Switch Lite on the left beside Switch. Make the Switch Lite logo yellow, light blue, or grey (or a unique color regardless but not red), yet make it's bar the same red as Switch, so it's clear they have a connection. Then change the 3DS bar to a unique color and not Switch red (a brighter or darker red might work to keep the Nin connection), that way it's not confused with being part of the Switch platform.

The site can do whatever it wants, and if it's decided platform hardware is all the same going forward then that's their decision, but I can't help but see that leading to issue's down the road. More issue's that would arise in comparison to keeping form factor sales separate anyway.

Actually, in the interest of keeping the chart split with consoles on the left and handhelds on the right, the order would have to be something like:

PS4, XB1, Switch, Switch Lite, 3DS. That way the Switch twins would be side by side yet in their respective categorical placement.



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Intrinsic on 27 September 2019
dridella said:
Just read this from a review from Wired

"" Technically, the name "Switch" no longer fits, as the Lite cannot connect to a television, thereby not being able to 'switch' between docked and portable forms. It also means only games with a handheld mode are compatible with the new console – try to buy anything on Nintendo eShop that requires TV output (Labo, Just Dance, 1-2-Switch, Super Mario Party) and you'll be warned it's incompatible. This is the biggest change, but not the only one. ""

But they also refer to it being a new console

And that right there is my point.

The Nintendo Switch is a hybrid. A device that can be used as a handheld or a home console. But the same device.

The Nintendo Switch Lite, is NOT. It is a handheld, and it even breaks compatibility with some games n the Nintendo library. Yet people call it the same thing. And to suggest that its not that simple is apparently illogical and bias.

No one here with a straight face can Say the Switch lite is the exact same thing as the Switch, that will in its entirety e a lat lie. Because it's not. At least not in the same way that the PS4pr/XB1X is the same thing with the PS4/XB1 respectively. Yes If I buy a switch lite I can play the majority of my games on it. But if I want to be able to play on my TV, then I would need to buy a different version of the "switch". Now, this would have been a mot point if you could just connect a cable to the switch lite and play it on our TV, but you can't.

I propose a question if when the PS5 is released, and for the following 3 years after its release, all its games also run on the PS4 (albeit at 720por less or something)... dos that mean the PS5 will be grouped with the PS4 in sales?

Now to clear this up, I am not saying that the Switch lite sales should be separated, I know that won't happen and personally I don' care enough fr that... I am saying, however, that this is exactly what I predicted will happen before the Switch was even released when it was announced as a hybrid. I literally sai that a few years after that Nintendo will release a strictly handheld version of it. And that how its sales are tracked after that would be interesting.



EricHiggin on 27 September 2019
Intrinsic said:
dridella said:
Just read this from a review from Wired

"" Technically, the name "Switch" no longer fits, as the Lite cannot connect to a television, thereby not being able to 'switch' between docked and portable forms. It also means only games with a handheld mode are compatible with the new console – try to buy anything on Nintendo eShop that requires TV output (Labo, Just Dance, 1-2-Switch, Super Mario Party) and you'll be warned it's incompatible. This is the biggest change, but not the only one. ""

But they also refer to it being a new console

I propose a question if when the PS5 is released, and for the following 3 years after its release, all its games also run on the PS4 (albeit at 720por less or something)... dos that mean the PS5 will be grouped with the PS4 in sales?

Now to clear this up, I am not saying that the Switch lite sales should be separated, I know that won't happen and personally I don' care enough fr that... I am saying, however, that this is exactly what I predicted will happen before the Switch was even released when it was announced as a hybrid. I literally sai that a few years after that Nintendo will release a strictly handheld version of it. And that how its sales are tracked after that would be interesting.

If PS4 games run on PS5 it should be the same as well no? The majority of third party games will cover both consoles for years. They both have similar starts to their names, like PS and Switch. The only difference will be 5 and Lite which are both distinctions.

I don't see why PS5 sales wouldn't continue wherever PS4 sales stop based on this reasoning.

Good call. I also agree it's going to make things interesting, to put it one way.



EricHiggin on 27 September 2019
SpokenTruth said:
Intrinsic said:

And that right there is my point.

The Nintendo Switch is a hybrid. A device that can be used as a handheld or a home console. But the same device.

The Nintendo Switch Lite, is NOT. It is a handheld, and it even breaks compatibility with some games n the Nintendo library. Yet people call it the same thing. And to suggest that its not that simple is apparently illogical and bias.

No one here with a straight face can Say the Switch lite is the exact same thing as the Switch, that will in its entirety e a lat lie. Because it's not. At least not in the same way that the PS4pr/XB1X is the same thing with the PS4/XB1 respectively. Yes If I buy a switch lite I can play the majority of my games on it. But if I want to be able to play on my TV, then I would need to buy a different version of the "switch". Now, this would have been a mot point if you could just connect a cable to the switch lite and play it on our TV, but you can't.

I propose a question if when the PS5 is released, and for the following 3 years after its release, all its games also run on the PS4 (albeit at 720por less or something)... dos that mean the PS5 will be grouped with the PS4 in sales?

Now to clear this up, I am not saying that the Switch lite sales should be separated, I know that won't happen and personally I don' care enough fr that... I am saying, however, that this is exactly what I predicted will happen before the Switch was even released when it was announced as a hybrid. I literally sai that a few years after that Nintendo will release a strictly handheld version of it. And that how its sales are tracked after that would be interesting.

It's basically the exact same damn hardware.  Same motherboard, same CPU, same GPU, same RAM, same clock speeds.  The differences?  No TV out, more compact screen, smaller battery, joycons built into the chassis. But you want to call it a different console?

Early PS3's before the slims had some PS1 and PS2 hardware in them for years correct? Is there separation between PS1, PS2, and PS3 sales?



Intrinsic on 27 September 2019
SpokenTruth said:
Intrinsic said:

And that right there is my point.

The Nintendo Switch is a hybrid. A device that can be used as a handheld or a home console. But the same device.

The Nintendo Switch Lite, is NOT. It is a handheld, and it even breaks compatibility with some games n the Nintendo library. Yet people call it the same thing. And to suggest that its not that simple is apparently illogical and bias.

No one here with a straight face can Say the Switch lite is the exact same thing as the Switch, that will in its entirety e a lat lie. Because it's not. At least not in the same way that the PS4pr/XB1X is the same thing with the PS4/XB1 respectively. Yes If I buy a switch lite I can play the majority of my games on it. But if I want to be able to play on my TV, then I would need to buy a different version of the "switch". Now, this would have been a mot point if you could just connect a cable to the switch lite and play it on our TV, but you can't.

I propose a question if when the PS5 is released, and for the following 3 years after its release, all its games also run on the PS4 (albeit at 720por less or something)... dos that mean the PS5 will be grouped with the PS4 in sales?

Now to clear this up, I am not saying that the Switch lite sales should be separated, I know that won't happen and personally I don' care enough fr that... I am saying, however, that this is exactly what I predicted will happen before the Switch was even released when it was announced as a hybrid. I literally sai that a few years after that Nintendo will release a strictly handheld version of it. And that how its sales are tracked after that would be interesting.

It's basically the exact same damn hardware.  Same motherboard, same CPU, same GPU, same RAM, same clock speeds.  The differences?  No TV out, more compact screen, smaller battery, joycons built into the chassis. But you want to call it a different console?

This is just double standards at the highest.

Years ago a lot here got a lot of stick because we argued about the switch being a "hybrid" as opposed to a handheld that you could connect to a TV.

Now it's a "handheld" but we are supposed to still call it a hybrid? That doesn't seem weird to you?

Anyways, lets just leave this matter alone... its pointless and not going anywhere.



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curl-6 on 27 September 2019
SpokenTruth said:
Intrinsic said:

And that right there is my point.

The Nintendo Switch is a hybrid. A device that can be used as a handheld or a home console. But the same device.

The Nintendo Switch Lite, is NOT. It is a handheld, and it even breaks compatibility with some games n the Nintendo library. Yet people call it the same thing. And to suggest that its not that simple is apparently illogical and bias.

No one here with a straight face can Say the Switch lite is the exact same thing as the Switch, that will in its entirety e a lat lie. Because it's not. At least not in the same way that the PS4pr/XB1X is the same thing with the PS4/XB1 respectively. Yes If I buy a switch lite I can play the majority of my games on it. But if I want to be able to play on my TV, then I would need to buy a different version of the "switch". Now, this would have been a mot point if you could just connect a cable to the switch lite and play it on our TV, but you can't.

I propose a question if when the PS5 is released, and for the following 3 years after its release, all its games also run on the PS4 (albeit at 720por less or something)... dos that mean the PS5 will be grouped with the PS4 in sales?

Now to clear this up, I am not saying that the Switch lite sales should be separated, I know that won't happen and personally I don' care enough fr that... I am saying, however, that this is exactly what I predicted will happen before the Switch was even released when it was announced as a hybrid. I literally sai that a few years after that Nintendo will release a strictly handheld version of it. And that how its sales are tracked after that would be interesting.

It's basically the exact same damn hardware.  Same motherboard, same CPU, same GPU, same RAM, same clock speeds.  The differences?  No TV out, more compact screen, smaller battery, joycons built into the chassis. But you want to call it a different console?

Exactly; the Mariko base Switch and the Lite have the exact same Tegra X1 SoC inside them, whereas the PS4 and Pro and Xbone OG/S and X have different GPUs and in the X's case different RAM as well, yet they're counted as the same system on the charts.



EricHiggin on 27 September 2019

While I've been praying that MS is smart enough not to market Scarlett as Xbox One something, I will cripple myself of laughter if they do the exact opposite and keep the One naming scheme for game marketing. With the new games working for all XB1 consoles, it will have to fall under the same XB1 sales indicator.

So very interesting things could get.



Intrinsic on 27 September 2019
SpokenTruth said:

You're arguing two different things.

1. Type of console as they relate to sales comparisons.

2. Console models. 

No. I am saying the switch is not the same thing as the switch lite. It is fundamentally different in the one area that had been drummed into our heads to be its standout feature and differentiator. But now all of a sudden all those that were talking up hybrid suddenly seem to be spelling it as "lite"....

curl-6 said:
SpokenTruth said:

It's basically the exact same damn hardware.  Same motherboard, same CPU, same GPU, same RAM, same clock speeds.  The differences?  No TV out, more compact screen, smaller battery, joycons built into the chassis. But you want to call it a different console?

Exactly; the Mariko base Switch and the Lite have the exact same Tegra X1 SoC inside them, whereas the PS4 and Pro and Xbone OG/S and X have different GPUs and in the X's case different RAM as well, yet they're counted as the same system on the charts.

The difference is that the PS4pro/1X can play every single game in their respective library. The entirety of their user experience is identical. In every single way. With the only difference being a resolution or graphical enhancements. That's literally the same as saying ther is a "built" in difference with the NS when looking at docked and undocked mode.

There is no concrete ground to differentiate the two. You buy both the same way, by games the same way, play them the same way. Can the same be said about the Switch lite? Not only are there sme games that are broken if you choose to play on the lite or lose functionality... you fundamentally can't use the devices in the same way.



Intrinsic on 27 September 2019
SpokenTruth said:
EricHiggin said:
While I've been praying that MS is smart enough not to market Scarlett as Xbox One something, I will cripple myself of laughter if they do the exact opposite and keep the One naming scheme for game marketing. With the new games working for all XB1 consoles, it will have to fall under the same XB1 sales indicator.

So very interesting things could get.

1. Yeah, that's not going to happen at all.  What indicators exist to even suggest it?

2. Forward compatibility?  You are expecting Scarlet games to run on Xbox One (2013) consoles?

Technically, with xbox game pass/X cloud... that is exactly what MS is trying to do. If MS has their way, you won't even need an xbox to play any game on thei platform.

But the relevan of the point isn't about it happening or not. Its that if something like that does happen, based on what s happening now, wouldn't the next Xbox or whatever be grouped together? Or even te PS5if somehow for the first 3 years all the games also work on the PS4. Wee d we draw the line?



curl-6 on 27 September 2019
Intrinsic said:
curl-6 said:

Exactly; the Mariko base Switch and the Lite have the exact same Tegra X1 SoC inside them, whereas the PS4 and Pro and Xbone OG/S and X have different GPUs and in the X's case different RAM as well, yet they're counted as the same system on the charts.

The difference is that the PS4pro/1X can play every single game in their respective library. The entirety of their user experience is identical. In every single way. With the only difference being a resolution or graphical enhancements. That's literally the same as saying ther is a "built" in difference with the NS when looking at docked and undocked mode.

There is no concrete ground to differentiate the two. You buy both the same way, by games the same way, play them the same way. Can the same be said about the Switch lite? Not only are there sme games that are broken if you choose to play on the lite or lose functionality... you fundamentally can't use the devices in the same way.

You can't play Xenoblade Chronicles on the base 3DS. The New 3DS still counts towards the 3DS total. You can't use 3D on the 2DS. The 2DS still counts towards the 3DS total. The Lite is just another hardware revision.