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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Goodby Teraflop (PS5 and Xbox Scarlet probably will not contest on Teraflop number anymore) expect 8 to 9 teraflop for PS5 and Scarlet

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What do you think with these teraflop number

Yes 1 2.94%
 
No 0 0%
 
i don't care teraflop , i... 19 55.88%
 
I am expecting more 6 17.65%
 
These within my expecation 4 11.76%
 
I am impressed we get mor... 2 5.88%
 
I still believe even with... 2 5.88%
 
Total:34
haxxiy said:

We might have a more modern architecture compared to the Navi cards soon to be released, but don't expect it to be more powerful than the RX 5700 cards, specially if their power consumption is confirmed to match their thermal specs. I would expect something more in the 7 - 8 TF range. Unless these consoles are heavily subsidized or/and $500.

I think it will save to say PS5 and Xbox Scarlet  will be around 499 USD due to inflation alone. And all price already expensive, and even mainstream GPU price is now above 399 USD (back then it was around 250 to 300 USD).  So if PS5 and Scarlet targeted at 399,  PS5 and Xbox could ended underpowered and less jump in performance compared to 7th gen transition to 8th gen, PS5 and Xbox need to at least targeted price around 499 USD. 



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jonathanalis said:
I remember MS saying that scarlet would be 4x more powerful than one X. But I dont have idea what it means, seems that is not in Tflops.

Also, I remember Xbox launching with 1.3Tflops, and PS4 with 1.84, and they were almost the same visually. Better frame rate in one, better resolution in other, but they were par. Seems that 8 to 12 Tflops would be the same situation. 4 Tflops (a PS4 pro) of difference and the machines would still be on par.

There will be a difference but not much and difficult to see, unless exclusives games or games made for specific console. 

Scarlet  4X more powerful than Xbox One X probably means the total performance and combination of  CPU, RAM and GPU. The GPU alone probably less than or equal 2.5 times. Also the number will be different and need to be translated to Navi (RDNA/RX 5000 ) teraflop number because Navi will have less teraflop but more efficient on performance (1 teraflop Navi/RDNA is 1.5 X than GCN GPU ). Xbox Scarlet is 2.5 X 6 teraflop = 15 teraflop GCN number but remember we will need to translates to Navi teraflop number, Scarlet GPU will be 15 tf : 1.5 performance gain of Navi = 10 RDNA for Scarlet.  That's just for the GPU alone. 



HollyGamer said:
thismeintiel said:
I guess it will all depend on how many CUs they choose to use. If the Gonzolas chip is what is in the PS5, 36 gives us 8.3Tflops, 40 gives us 9.2Tflops, 44 10.1Tflops, 48 11.1Tflops, 52 Tflops 12Tflops, and 56 12.9Tflops.

Personally, with the savings they will receive by waiting a year for the process to mature, buying direct from AMD, and in bulk, I don't see them only using 40 CUs. Not if they are building a $600 box and selling it for $500. By the time they are ready to mass produce the PS5, I wouldn't be surprised if they can't get the CPU they are using, more than likely a Ryzen 7 3700X, for $150 a pop. That leaves quite a bit of room for the GPU.

Trust me i would love to get more CU and more teraflop on PS5, but the reality is Navi GPU die is bigger compared to Vega even on the same 7nm process, and even 36 CU of Navi 10 (RX 5700) the transistor is double than 36 CU on PS4 pro. Also  do not worry the performance of even 7 to 8 teraflop of Navi is equal to 12 to 13 teraflop GCN (PS/PS4 Pro). Not include low level API and optimization that will bring out extra power for PS5 final performance.

But I do believe like you said PS5 were actually planned to release on 2019 but they are canceled and change to 2020 waiting for mature process to 7+ nm or 7 nm EUV process to get  44 to 48 CU fit inside PS5 APU and have 10 to 11 teraflop in compute performance (so in GCN number it's transale to 15 to 16 teraflop) and equal or more than RTX 2080 and close to 2080 Ti. But this is just my assumption, many forum dwellers in resetera and 3D forum are also still in debate weather PS5 will be using smaller Navi 7+ nm chip (7 nm EUV process) to fit more CU and have less power consumption and low temp. We can just cross our finger and hope for it.

But Alas Teraflop is not everything , as long it perform slightly better than RTX 2070 or close to RTX 2080 this console is already super beast even for 499 USD. Just let lower our expectation to reality so if it's in the end PS5 is getting 48 CU it will make us even happier due to our less expectation.  

NEVER! I know PS5 will be a 64 CU BEAST!



thismeintiel said:
HollyGamer said:

Trust me i would love to get more CU and more teraflop on PS5, but the reality is Navi GPU die is bigger compared to Vega even on the same 7nm process, and even 36 CU of Navi 10 (RX 5700) the transistor is double than 36 CU on PS4 pro. Also  do not worry the performance of even 7 to 8 teraflop of Navi is equal to 12 to 13 teraflop GCN (PS/PS4 Pro). Not include low level API and optimization that will bring out extra power for PS5 final performance.

But I do believe like you said PS5 were actually planned to release on 2019 but they are canceled and change to 2020 waiting for mature process to 7+ nm or 7 nm EUV process to get  44 to 48 CU fit inside PS5 APU and have 10 to 11 teraflop in compute performance (so in GCN number it's transale to 15 to 16 teraflop) and equal or more than RTX 2080 and close to 2080 Ti. But this is just my assumption, many forum dwellers in resetera and 3D forum are also still in debate weather PS5 will be using smaller Navi 7+ nm chip (7 nm EUV process) to fit more CU and have less power consumption and low temp. We can just cross our finger and hope for it.

But Alas Teraflop is not everything , as long it perform slightly better than RTX 2070 or close to RTX 2080 this console is already super beast even for 499 USD. Just let lower our expectation to reality so if it's in the end PS5 is getting 48 CU it will make us even happier due to our less expectation.  

NEVER! I know PS5 will be a 64 CU BEAST!



HollyGamer said:
jonathanalis said:
I remember MS saying that scarlet would be 4x more powerful than one X. But I dont have idea what it means, seems that is not in Tflops.

Also, I remember Xbox launching with 1.3Tflops, and PS4 with 1.84, and they were almost the same visually. Better frame rate in one, better resolution in other, but they were par. Seems that 8 to 12 Tflops would be the same situation. 4 Tflops (a PS4 pro) of difference and the machines would still be on par.

There will be a difference but not much and difficult to see, unless exclusives games or games made for specific console. 

Scarlet  4X more powerful than Xbox One X probably means the total performance and combination of  CPU, RAM and GPU. The GPU alone probably less than or equal 2.5 times. Also the number will be different and need to be translated to Navi (RDNA/RX 5000 ) teraflop number because Navi will have less teraflop but more efficient on performance (1 teraflop Navi/RDNA is 1.5 X than GCN GPU ). Xbox Scarlet is 2.5 X 6 teraflop = 15 teraflop GCN number but remember we will need to translates to Navi teraflop number, Scarlet GPU will be 15 tf : 1.5 performance gain of Navi = 10 RDNA for Scarlet.  That's just for the GPU alone. 

If we are doing the right way, 4x more performance would be each component at least 4x more powerfull/efficient/etc. It isn't sum or multiplying each gain. It is more likely that the worse component needs to be 4x higher.

thismeintiel said:
HollyGamer said:

Trust me i would love to get more CU and more teraflop on PS5, but the reality is Navi GPU die is bigger compared to Vega even on the same 7nm process, and even 36 CU of Navi 10 (RX 5700) the transistor is double than 36 CU on PS4 pro. Also  do not worry the performance of even 7 to 8 teraflop of Navi is equal to 12 to 13 teraflop GCN (PS/PS4 Pro). Not include low level API and optimization that will bring out extra power for PS5 final performance.

But I do believe like you said PS5 were actually planned to release on 2019 but they are canceled and change to 2020 waiting for mature process to 7+ nm or 7 nm EUV process to get  44 to 48 CU fit inside PS5 APU and have 10 to 11 teraflop in compute performance (so in GCN number it's transale to 15 to 16 teraflop) and equal or more than RTX 2080 and close to 2080 Ti. But this is just my assumption, many forum dwellers in resetera and 3D forum are also still in debate weather PS5 will be using smaller Navi 7+ nm chip (7 nm EUV process) to fit more CU and have less power consumption and low temp. We can just cross our finger and hope for it.

But Alas Teraflop is not everything , as long it perform slightly better than RTX 2070 or close to RTX 2080 this console is already super beast even for 499 USD. Just let lower our expectation to reality so if it's in the end PS5 is getting 48 CU it will make us even happier due to our less expectation.  

NEVER! I know PS5 will be a 64 CU BEAST!

Not 64. We will have a dual SOC with at least 80 CU, perhaps 112.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

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DonFerrari said:

If we are doing the right way, 4x more performance would be each component at least 4x more powerful/efficient/etc. It isn't sum or multiplying each gain. It is more likely that the worse component needs to be 4x higher.

Well i would love to see Xbox Scarlet to have 4X of Xbox One X 6 teraflop number which is 24 teraflop of GCN or in Navi number around 16 teraflop.The GPU is still stupidly expensive for console size, high power consumption and need water cooling (not just vapor chamber). If Microsoft want to have a real 4X gap performance of 6 teraflop than they need to wait until 2021 or even 2022. That's why 4X more powerful than Xbox One X is just play words to hype Xbox Scarlet , a marketing jargon to confuse consumer and fool casual people. 

thismeintiel said:

NEVER! I know PS5 will be a 64 CU BEAST!

Not 64. We will have a dual SOC with at least 80 CU, perhaps 112.



HollyGamer said:
DonFerrari said:

If we are doing the right way, 4x more performance would be each component at least 4x more powerful/efficient/etc. It isn't sum or multiplying each gain. It is more likely that the worse component needs to be 4x higher.

Well i would love to see Xbox Scarlet to have 4X of Xbox One X 6 teraflop number which is 24 teraflop of GCN or in Navi number around 16 teraflop.The GPU is still stupidly expensive for console size, high power consumption and need water cooling (not just vapor chamber). If Microsoft want to have a real 4X gap performance of 6 teraflop than they need to wait until 2021 or even 2022. That's why 4X more powerful than Xbox One X is just play words to hype Xbox Scarlet , a marketing jargon to confuse consumer and fool casual people. 

Not 64. We will have a dual SOC with at least 80 CU, perhaps 112.

We don't have source to say MS was spinning or lying.

But if they were saying it's 4x more powerful because of creative math, or let's say they put something better than potato CPU that would disengenuous.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

FLOPS are generally a shitty way of comparing performance across parts of different architectures and/or made years apart. It's like the Megahertz Myth back in the day where people used clockspeed in the same flawed way, even though a part with only half the Megahertz of another could outperform it in real world applications.

In terms of raw FLOPS the Switch in portable mode is only like 60% as powerful as an Xbox 360, yet clearly that's not the case in actual performance.

There is way, way more to console power than just FLOPS or GHz.



Bet with Liquidlaser: I say PS5 and Xbox Series will sell more than 56 million combined by the end of 2023.

DonFerrari said:
HollyGamer said:

We don't have source to say MS was spinning or lying.

But if they were saying it's 4x more powerful because of creative math, or let's say they put something better than potato CPU that would disengenuous.

Maybe you still remember "the powah of the cloud "

But seriously , we still don't know the exact number it perhaps they can achieve that number who knows? but common sense said it's almost impossible to have 4X of 6 teraflop number even more on Navi teraflop number. But it will be another funny memes if Xbox Scarlet is less powerful  than what they trying to promote. LOL 



curl-6 said:

FLOPS are generally a shitty way of comparing performance across parts of different architectures and/or made years apart. It's like the Megahertz Myth back in the day where people used clockspeed in the same flawed way, even though a part with only half the Megahertz of another could outperform it in real world applications.

In terms of raw FLOPS the Switch in portable mode is only like 60% as powerful as an Xbox 360, yet clearly that's not the case in actual performance.

There is way, way more to console power than just FLOPS or GHz.

Agree, that's why it's funny on how  people trying to compare PC to console or AMD GPU to Nvidia directly. Actually i was on that position when predicting PS5 teraflop last few month but at that time we were having zero information on the Navi . Real world performance are required like benchmark or games and people who directly analyze like Digital foundry and other outlet are much more needed. Especially when the console are targeted at the same price performance and difficult to see the difference. I bet next Gen Digital foundry will be more important on ongoing console battle.