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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Goodby Teraflop (PS5 and Xbox Scarlet probably will not contest on Teraflop number anymore) expect 8 to 9 teraflop for PS5 and Scarlet

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What do you think with these teraflop number

Yes 1 2.94%
 
No 0 0%
 
i don't care teraflop , i... 19 55.88%
 
I am expecting more 6 17.65%
 
These within my expecation 4 11.76%
 
I am impressed we get mor... 2 5.88%
 
I still believe even with... 2 5.88%
 
Total:34

I'm actually only waiting to see which of those will explode like a Samsung Galaxy Note 7.



Switch Friend Code : 3905-6122-2909 

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DonFerrari said:
HollyGamer said:

We don't have source to say MS was spinning or lying.

But if they were saying it's 4x more powerful because of creative math, or let's say they put something better than potato CPU that would disengenuous.

Well, it is MS we're talking about. You know, the company that had fake devkits, ones that were more powerful than the XBO, running playable demos of games. Games that were than downgraded to be able to run on the actual HW. Even taking said fake demo onto Jimmy Fallon for him to play.

My guess is that they probably ran a benchmark test on the CPU and got ~4x the score that the X got, so stated that as actual overall performance.



Mar1217 said:
I'm actually only waiting to see which of those will explode like a Samsung Galaxy Note 7.

Well actually Samsung Galaxy notes was explode because of batteries not the CPU/GPU. If PS or Xbox has batteries on their main hardware  the probability are there. You should be worry more on Switch rather on traditional console LOL. 



JRPGfan said:

Theres more to real world performance than just the number of Tflops.

Has my incessant nagging finally sunk in?
Because Tflops was all you used to use...
I.E.
http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8778326
http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8760975
http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8730042
http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8728278

JRPGfan said:

These cards have higher IPC (instructions pr clock) than their older gen cards tech.

Kinda' happens with each successive architectural update to a processors design... Kinda' the entire point and everything.

JRPGfan said:

Be honest guys, even those PC master race people, how many people here have a Geforce 1080 or better?
plus with consoles and close to metal codeing, you get more bang for the buck,.... PS5  & XB2 are gonna be monsters.

You do realize the PC will have a successor to the Navi/5700 series and 2070 series before the next-gen consoles launch? Right? Right?

The consoles should fall roughly in mid-range in terms of performance tier as expected relative to the PC when they launch.

EricHiggin said:

https://www.techtimes.com/articles/186804/20161128/could-the-playstation-5-have-an-impressive-8-teraflop-gpu-for-true-4k-gaming.htm

Cerny mentioned around the launch of Pro in 2016 that he felt at least 8TF would be needed for guaranteed full native 4k. Can't help but wonder if he was privy to info about where Navi was likely to land in terms of TF calculation. It would also partially explain why Pro only hit 4.2TF. If your next gen console is 'only' going to hit 8TF-10TF, then why try and launch a monster of a console and make the next gen leap look much less impressive?

This would make it tougher for MS to market Project Scarlett since they will either have to really push the GPU performance and pay a hefty price for that, or possibly sacrifice CPU cores to keep the die size and cost down, or use two separate dies, still increasing costs. PS5 could be 8.4TF and it will seem like a much larger and more worthwhile leap in comparison to a 9TF-10TF Scarlett. Even if PS decided to shoot for 10TF and that happened to be where Scarlett landed as well, then it would still look better for PS than MS, due to the difference in performance gains on paper. PS will be able to use this to their advantage, where it would hurt MS, making their advancement seem weaker.

8 Teraflops isn't needed for guaranteed full native 4k.

It all depends on the level of fidelity you wish to chase, there is more to life than flops... Which is finally the message Microsoft and Sony are starting to put out there that is also finally starting to catch on with the gaming community. Yay. Finally.

Flops has always been irrelevant, it's a theoretical number, not a real world one.

HollyGamer said:

If Microsoft able  jump to 7nm+ than there is no reason Sony cannot, because actually 7nm + is more cheaper for the long run for both company and both are releasing at the same time frame (unlike Xbox One X that release latter after PS4 pro). Because i also have hunch both will targeted 7nm + due to release date and several news that 7nm+ already available on Samsung this month for mass produce  and TSMC will be available late this year or early next year. 

The problem is  the devkit and the test chip for the 7nm+ APU, they need to get at least 1 year or 6 month prior to launch, and none of manufacturing company able to produce in early 2019. That is why many forum dweller are pessimist that Sony and Xbox are using just normal 7 nm for devkit and for the final design. 

Depending on chip complexity a refined/smaller fabrication process can actually end up more expensive, hence why AMD is using 12nm for it's I/O chip and 7nm for the Zen CPU Complexes with Zen 2... Plus some structures don't scale downwards as well as others either.

Regular 7nm is likely the targeted process for the initial launch with 7nm+/5nm coming later as it becomes feasible.


curl-6 said:

FLOPS are generally a shitty way of comparing performance across parts of different architectures and/or made years apart. It's like the Megahertz Myth back in the day where people used clockspeed in the same flawed way, even though a part with only half the Megahertz of another could outperform it in real world applications.

In terms of raw FLOPS the Switch in portable mode is only like 60% as powerful as an Xbox 360, yet clearly that's not the case in actual performance.

There is way, way more to console power than just FLOPS or GHz.

Or back when people used "bits" to try and determine a consoles "performance". - That was just as ludicrous.







--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

thismeintiel said:
DonFerrari said:

We don't have source to say MS was spinning or lying.

But if they were saying it's 4x more powerful because of creative math, or let's say they put something better than potato CPU that would disengenuous.

Well, it is MS we're talking about. You know, the company that had fake devkits, ones that were more powerful than the XBO, running playable demos of games. Games that were than downgraded to be able to run on the actual HW. Even taking said fake demo onto Jimmy Fallon for him to play.

My guess is that they probably ran a benchmark test on the CPU and got ~4x the score that the X got, so stated that as actual overall performance.

dev kits being more capable than the actual console is normal, as devs needs a healthy overhead for analytics programs, debugging software etc etc

at E3 there were contradictory statements what "4x more powerful" means, Phil afaik said this was based on CPU performance, Matt Booty said it was a combination of several factors like CPU,GPU,SSD and RAM



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Teraflops was never an accurate way in judging a systems power. Its all about the overall balance on the machines hardware. Never dedicated solely on one piece in the machine.



Anything 10 or above TFLOPS was only ever purported by people who couldn't even spell GPU. Still very skeptical that we will get anything that can go toe to toe with a 2070. Console makers don't very much like power in their consoles so something around a 2060 seems more reasonable.



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vivster said:
Anything 10 or above TFLOPS was only ever purported by people who couldn't even spell GPU. Still very skeptical that we will get anything that can go toe to toe with a 2070. Console makers don't very much like power in their consoles so something around a 2060 seems more reasonable.

10 teraflop is achievable on the current size and power tdp for APU. Because it will just slightly more 44 cu or 48 cu to achieve 10 teraflop. The problem is when it will targeted above 48 CU (56 to 52), because it size will be more than 420 mm^ .

The problem are we still don't know what manufacturing process Sony and Microsoft will use for their APU. Will it be 7nm or 7nm+, also the final APU chip size for both. I bet if they are willing to lose money on early release year, they can easily achieve 10 to 11. 

At the current progress actually RX 5700 Xt already slightly more powerful or on par with RTX 2070 on benchmark , the final chip for PS5 according to leak  are close to RTX 2080 in firestrikes benchmark. I can see 2070 are hit the mark, now i wish they can push more to at least more closer to RTX 2080. So by the end of 2020 PS5 will compete with RTX 3070 and not with mainstream GPU RTX 3060. unlike PS4 that competed with GTX 660 (Nvidia mainstream GPU )when PS4 was released in 2013. 



HollyGamer said:
vivster said:
Anything 10 or above TFLOPS was only ever purported by people who couldn't even spell GPU. Still very skeptical that we will get anything that can go toe to toe with a 2070. Console makers don't very much like power in their consoles so something around a 2060 seems more reasonable.

10 teraflop is achievable on the current size and power tdp for APU. Because it will just slightly more 44 cu or 48 cu to achieve 10 teraflop. The problem is when it will targeted above 48 CU (56 to 52), because it size will be more than 420 mm^ .

The problem are we still don't know what manufacturing process Sony and Microsoft will use for their APU. Will it be 7nm or 7nm+, also the final APU chip size for both. I bet if they are willing to lose money on early release year, they can easily achieve 10 to 11. 

At the current progress actually RX 5700 Xt already slightly more powerful or on par with RTX 2070 on benchmark , the final chip for PS5 according to leak  are close to RTX 2080 in firestrikes benchmark. I can see 2070 are hit the mark, now i wish they can push more to at least more closer to RTX 2080. So by the end of 2020 PS5 will compete with RTX 3070 and not with mainstream GPU RTX 3060. unlike PS4 that competed with GTX 660 (Nvidia mainstream GPU )when PS4 was released in 2013. 

You need to stop looking at PC GPUs and start thinking about what Sony and Microsoft will actually put in their consoles. It's absolutely irrelevant what Navi is capable of, what matters is what cut down version of it they will put into their consoles to have an affordable product. I can't see anything close to 2070 unless they come right out of the gates with a $500+ Pro model.



If you demand respect or gratitude for your volunteer work, you're doing volunteering wrong.

I just wanna point out that pastebin "leak" is fake which Hollygamer posted. It's just a copy & paste from what the reddit user ruthenicCookie said. He was the first to say Sony would have a small PS5 reveal mid 2019, he also was the first to say Sony wouldn't be at E3 this year. And he said a bunch of stuff about VR2 and PS5 being a monster and targeting $500 price point.

I think the teraflops number will be lower than what people are expecting. A 36CU clocked at 1,6ghz or lower is what we should expect, this is a 7,3 Teraflop gpu and will have a power consumption of 160W including GDDR6 memory. Xbox one X gpu had a power consumption of 150W so we shouldn't expect much more than this.

The gonzalo leak might be true as we now have 4 reports saying PS5 being more powerful than Xbox Scarlett and I expect both console to have 36CU's, gonzalo is likely a 36CU gpu clocked at 1,8ghz (8,3TF) its performance should land just slightly below radeon 5700xt, but I'm sceptical of this as this gpu will pull about 200W that is gpu alone. But Sony might go with crazy clock speed who knows.

Link to RuthenicCookie comments (he recently said in another post PS5 will cost between $500-600):

https://old.reddit.com/r/PS4/comments/9x2r4f/sony_is_not_going_to_appear_in_e3_next_year/?limit=500

Last edited by Trumpstyle - on 03 July 2019

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