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Forums - Politics Discussion - Nintendo, Sony, and Microsoft issue Joint Statement on potential tariffs on China

gamingsoul said:

Yes agree, some countries might be humble now, but as soon as they become powerful things might change.

but the whole idea is to find trade parents that play fair, because China clearly doesn’t.

Hard to do when they're sovereign states so the only thing to do is to make it as hard as possible for our new partners for them to grow ... 

LivingMetal said:

No one is saying to solely trust India or Vietnam.  So let's not turn this into a strawman argument.  This whole principle here is to have several viable options.  No one should feel circumstantially forced to rely on a single source for inexpensive goods whether it's quality or not.  Yes, what is happening with China can happen with India or Vietnam one day.  But it's happening to China NOW so that's what we are dealing with.  If this forces foreign companies in the U.S. and U.S. companies to later become more self-reliant, we all will win by not letting a few countries corner certain economic sectors.

I wasn't making a straw man anyways ... 

Not arguing we shouldn't have several viable options but at the same time we should be more careful next time about our keys to modern civilization ... 



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Naum said:
ROBOTECHHEAVEN said:
I'm glad for the tariffs, we have been getting screwed by China for several decades. Maybe the big 3 will make there damn systems in the usa,Japan or somewhere else. And let China know they can go straight to hell

You do know that these tarffis wont hurt China much... in the end its YOU who will pay the increased tarrifs.

Nope, that's not how this works. Just because companies and media outlets say something and push propaganda for their own corporate interest doesn't make it true.

"That’s the conclusion of a new paper from EconPol Europe, a network of researchers in the European Union. U.S. companies and consumers will only pay 4.5 percent more after the nation imposed 25 percent tariffs on $250 billion of Chinese goods, and the other 20.5 percent toll will fall on Chinese producers, according to authors Benedikt Zoller-Rydzek and Gabriel Felbermayr."

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-11-19/china-is-paying-for-most-of-trump-s-trade-war-research-says?utm_content=business&utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&cmpid=socialflow-twitter-business&utm_campaign=socialflow-organic

Also, you see that Nintendo has moved some of its switch production out of China. So the switches that Nintendo wants to send to the USA, will be made elsewhere while still manufacturing in China for other countries. That's what companies do, sure companies would rather stay in China, moving ain't free. But China manufacturing vs other countries in south east Asia isn't that big of a deal.

https://www.theverge.com/2019/6/12/18662508/nintendo-switch-new-models-china-manufacturing-trade-war

For 2 years most media outlets claimed that Trump tariffs would lead to higher prices for US consumers. That doesn't seem to be the case, partly due to lower fuel/energy costs. There's also the fact that China attempts to counter by subsidizing the industries affected and adopting monetary policies which devalue their currency.

"Imports by Locality of Origin: The price index for imports from China edged down 0.1 percent in May following a 0.2-percent drop the previous month. Import prices from China have not recorded a monthly advance since the index rose 0.1 percent in May 2018. Prices for imports from China declined 1.4 percent over the past year, the largest 12-month drop since a 1.6-percent decrease in February 2017."

https://www.bls.gov/news.release/ximpim.nr0.htm

Consumer pricing is very complicated, lots goes into. You also have inflation, price fixing and controlled markets which plays a substantial role. You know if a company selling a product for $5 closes up shop in the US and reopens in Mexico just to make some more $$, they're still gonna try to sell that same item for $5. Why pay John $8 an hour when you could pay Juan $5 a day instead?

The Chinese originally didn't want to seriously negotiate because they have such a great deal, why would/should they accept something worse? They just wanted to play delay games hoping nothing would really change/happen thinking that they can just wait out Trump. Tariffs seem to actually be bringing them to the table. Who knows.

If it were up to me, we wouldn't be trading with China at all, they would be heavily sanctioned.

My grievances with China - Slave labor(seems like people only care about domestic slavery and not when it happens overseas and makes them cheap junk), oppressive/controlling government, they have real concentration camps, are always breaking UN sanctions, supporting horrible anti-American regimes like Maudro in Venezuala and Kim in North Korea, Stealing IP, forcing companies to transfer over their IP to operate/sell in china and other horribly unfair trade practices, various substantial hacks like the one on the OPM, etc...

Imagine if the US demanded a reciprocal trade deal with super protectionist China. Yeah, we'll take the same deal you are giving us. Imagine how they would respond.

What am I saying here... I meant to say China is the best country in the world and we all need to stop bullying them and trying to block their success. It's not okay to act out against China because you are jealous of what they have accomplished, it's just a bad look for you. So, we should all feel ashamed and atone by  taking an active roll in helping them achieve their Made in China 2025 objective.



useruserB said:
Naum said:

You do know that these tarffis wont hurt China much... in the end its YOU who will pay the increased tarrifs.

Nope, that's not how this works. Just because companies and media outlets say something and push propaganda for their own corporate interest doesn't make it true.

"That’s the conclusion of a new paper from EconPol Europe, a network of researchers in the European Union. U.S. companies and consumers will only pay 4.5 percent more after the nation imposed 25 percent tariffs on $250 billion of Chinese goods, and the other 20.5 percent toll will fall on Chinese producers, according to authors Benedikt Zoller-Rydzek and Gabriel Felbermayr."

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-11-19/china-is-paying-for-most-of-trump-s-trade-war-research-says?utm_content=business&utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&cmpid=socialflow-twitter-business&utm_campaign=socialflow-organic

Also, you see that Nintendo has moved some of its switch production out of China. So the switches that Nintendo wants to send to the USA, will be made elsewhere while still manufacturing in China for other countries. That's what companies do, sure companies would rather stay in China, moving ain't free. But China manufacturing vs other countries in south east Asia isn't that big of a deal.

https://www.theverge.com/2019/6/12/18662508/nintendo-switch-new-models-china-manufacturing-trade-war

For 2 years most media outlets claimed that Trump tariffs would lead to higher prices for US consumers. That doesn't seem to be the case, partly due to lower fuel/energy costs. There's also the fact that China attempts to counter by subsidizing the industries affected and adopting monetary policies which devalue their currency.

"Imports by Locality of Origin: The price index for imports from China edged down 0.1 percent in May following a 0.2-percent drop the previous month. Import prices from China have not recorded a monthly advance since the index rose 0.1 percent in May 2018. Prices for imports from China declined 1.4 percent over the past year, the largest 12-month drop since a 1.6-percent decrease in February 2017."

https://www.bls.gov/news.release/ximpim.nr0.htm

Consumer pricing is very complicated, lots goes into. You also have inflation, price fixing and controlled markets which plays a substantial role. You know if a company selling a product for $5 closes up shop in the US and reopens in Mexico just to make some more $$, they're still gonna try to sell that same item for $5. Why pay John $8 an hour when you could pay Juan $5 a day instead?

The Chinese originally didn't want to seriously negotiate because they have such a great deal, why would/should they accept something worse? They just wanted to play delay games hoping nothing would really change/happen thinking that they can just wait out Trump. Tariffs seem to actually be bringing them to the table. Who knows.

If it were up to me, we wouldn't be trading with China at all, they would be heavily sanctioned.

My grievances with China - Slave labor(seems like people only care about domestic slavery and not when it happens overseas and makes them cheap junk), oppressive/controlling government, they have real concentration camps, are always breaking UN sanctions, supporting horrible anti-American regimes like Maudro in Venezuala and Kim in North Korea, Stealing IP, forcing companies to transfer over their IP to operate/sell in china and other horribly unfair trade practices, various substantial hacks like the one on the OPM, etc...

Imagine if the US demanded a reciprocal trade deal with super protectionist China. Yeah, we'll take the same deal you are giving us. Imagine how they would respond.

What am I saying here... I meant to say China is the best country in the world and we all need to stop bullying them and trying to block their success. It's not okay to act out against China because you are jealous of what they have accomplished, it's just a bad look for you. So, we should all feel ashamed and atone by  taking an active roll in helping them achieve their Made in China 2025 objective.

What sanctions, on what they should do as a country?

If it is non of UN bussiness then it should not be that big of deal breaking them.



Mr Puggsly said:
Tulipanzo said:
Just another reminder that voting for Trump means hurting everyone, including yourself.

Enjoy more expensive and weaker consoles!

Are you suggesting we vote for the other party that wants to spend trillions on soical justice programs?

So open the borders and give everyone who enters health care. But hopefully that will be after we forgive over a trillion in college debt to our educated elite.

Are you hobestly assessing both parties? At best the dems are making big promises they dont actually plan on pursuing.

I'm suggesting voting for the party actively hurting people and shitting on YOUR HOBBY specifically might not be the smartest idea.

That the best you can come up with to defend your clearly self defeating position is how much you don't like the other guys is telling...

You had to go and get pissy at the idea of free healthcare, which is something that I, living in any oher Western country, already enjoy.

Oh, and wouldn't be a Trump supporter post without fear mongering about the immigrants 🤡🤡🤡



Tulipanzo said:
Mr Puggsly said:

Are you suggesting we vote for the other party that wants to spend trillions on soical justice programs?

So open the borders and give everyone who enters health care. But hopefully that will be after we forgive over a trillion in college debt to our educated elite.

Are you hobestly assessing both parties? At best the dems are making big promises they dont actually plan on pursuing.

I'm suggesting voting for the party actively hurting people and shitting on YOUR HOBBY specifically might not be the smartest idea.

That the best you can come up with to defend your clearly self defeating position is how much you don't like the other guys is telling...

You had to go and get pissy at the idea of free healthcare, which is something that I, living in any oher Western country, already enjoy.

Oh, and wouldn't be a Trump supporter post without fear mongering about the immigrants 🤡🤡🤡

Ya know... gaming is not really my priority. Also, spending more on hardware isn't really gonna have a big impact on me. Gaming has actually gotten cheaper over the years when you talk software prices. In a nutshell, cheap electronics doesn't ease my concerns regarding China.

Your western country probably isn't as inefficient with spending or dealing with a virtually open border like the US. Hence, I'm really not interested in giving more money/power to THIS government. Use you head for a moment, dems are pretty much saying they want open borders and support the idea of free healthcare for illegals. Its not even a debate about free healthcare anymore, I'm opposed to these terrible ideas which would be awful in practice because they wouldn't be able to fund it (i.e. bad healthcare for everyone). Hence, they're making promises you only hope they wouldn't actually attempt.

We certainly take a lot more immigrants that Italy, assuming that's where you're actually from. Which is actually okay, but many people flooding in illegally is hard to defend and I doubt you will attempt to do that.



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So the guy from Italy which has a 22% Vat tax and 20% sales tax, has an issue with Trump putting down 25% Tariffs on select Chinese goods. Ok good one.

Like I posted earlier, video game hardware
meant for sale in the US willl just be manufactured elsewhere if the tariffs are applied to another 300billion of Chinese imports and/or increased beyond 25%. Look at Nintendo hedging by manufacturing some consoles outside of China. The price won't really be affected.

And who knows if the new tarrifs will even be issued. China is back to negotiating.

Also, if Russia sent 20 million of its poorest/uneducated people to Italy, lowering unskilled labor wages and having a substantial number of them not really assimilate and the Illegal russian aliens sent billions back home to Russia in remittances every year. Then have a major political party start pandering heavily to the illegal Russian aliens promising them everything from healthcare to citizenship etc... I'm pretty sure you wouldn't be pleased with that.

Don't worry, soon enough you'll get your wish and we US people will be paying more for videogames/consoles than you Europeans. That's because it's just a matter of time before the Democrats get their super majority. They'll increase taxes heavily to pay for social programs and their Green New Deal(s). Over here in PA, the state government is already trying to tax videogames("mature games" for now) by 10%.



useruserB said:

So the guy from Italy which has a 22% Vat tax and 20% sales tax, has an issue with Trump putting down 25% Tariffs on select Chinese goods. Ok good one.

Like I posted earlier, video game hardware
meant for sale in the US willl just be manufactured elsewhere if the tariffs are applied to another 300billion of Chinese imports and/or increased beyond 25%. Look at Nintendo hedging by manufacturing some consoles outside of China. The price won't really be affected.

And who knows if the new tarrifs will even be issued. China is back to negotiating.

Also, if Russia sent 20 million of its poorest/uneducated people to Italy, lowering unskilled labor wages and having a substantial number of them not really assimilate and the Illegal russian aliens sent billions back home to Russia in remittances every year. Then have a major political party start pandering heavily to the illegal Russian aliens promising them everything from healthcare to citizenship etc... I'm pretty sure you wouldn't be pleased with that.

Don't worry, soon enough you'll get your wish and we US people will be paying more for videogames/consoles than you Europeans. That's because it's just a matter of time before the Democrats get their super majority. They'll increase taxes heavily to pay for social programs and their Green New Deal(s). Over here in PA, the state government is already trying to tax videogames("mature games" for now) by 10%.

Do the USA even have a major political party that heavily panders to illegal immigrants from the southern border?



Legend11 correctly predicted that GTA IV (360+PS3) would outsell SSBB. I was wrong.

A Biased Review Reloaded / Open Your Eyes / Switch Shipments

useruserB said:

So the guy from Italy which has a 22% Vat tax and 20% sales tax, has an issue with Trump putting down 25% Tariffs on select Chinese goods. Ok good one.

Like I posted earlier, video game hardware
meant for sale in the US willl just be manufactured elsewhere if the tariffs are applied to another 300billion of Chinese imports and/or increased beyond 25%. Look at Nintendo hedging by manufacturing some consoles outside of China. The price won't really be affected.

And who knows if the new tarrifs will even be issued. China is back to negotiating.

Also, if Russia sent 20 million of its poorest/uneducated people to Italy, lowering unskilled labor wages and having a substantial number of them not really assimilate and the Illegal russian aliens sent billions back home to Russia in remittances every year. Then have a major political party start pandering heavily to the illegal Russian aliens promising them everything from healthcare to citizenship etc... I'm pretty sure you wouldn't be pleased with that.

Don't worry, soon enough you'll get your wish and we US people will be paying more for videogames/consoles than you Europeans. That's because it's just a matter of time before the Democrats get their super majority. They'll increase taxes heavily to pay for social programs and their Green New Deal(s). Over here in PA, the state government is already trying to tax videogames("mature games" for now) by 10%.

In Brazil games are considered a sort of gamble game, so 70% taxes.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

Mr Puggsly said:

Ya know... gaming is not really my priority. Also, spending more on hardware isn't really gonna have a big impact on me. Gaming has actually gotten cheaper over the years when you talk software prices. In a nutshell, cheap electronics doesn't ease my concerns regarding China.

Your western country probably isn't as inefficient with spending or dealing with a virtually open border like the US. Hence, I'm really not interested in giving more money/power to THIS government. Use you head for a moment, dems are pretty much saying they want open borders and support the idea of free healthcare for illegals. Its not even a debate about free healthcare anymore, I'm opposed to these terrible ideas which would be awful in practice because they wouldn't be able to fund it (i.e. bad healthcare for everyone). Hence, they're making promises you only hope they wouldn't actually attempt.

We certainly take a lot more immigrants that Italy, assuming that's where you're actually from. Which is actually okay, but many people flooding in illegally is hard to defend and I doubt you will attempt to do that.

That "pretty much" right there is doing a TON of heavy lifting, isn't it?
It goes back to the fact that your politics aren't based on what you believe in, but on what someone else has told you to fear.                                                        
For example, you can't actually make an argument against Universal Health Care, something which would undoubtedly benefit you, and that clearly works in plenty of other countries. 
The only thing you can do is to lie about a supposed "Dem plan", to give free health care to illegals, whom you refuse to consider as people, but just a menace.

It's from this place of fear that you also talk about the topic at hand.
Tariffs would hurt console manufacturers, game creators, and you specifically. But that's ok, you have undisclosed "concerns" about China.
No matter that these tariffs were 100% not meant to adress your concerns; China bad, Trump good, so this must work, right?

Somebody has thought you that being afraid and ignorant is an acceptable argument for hurting others and yourself, and you never cared to question it.
It's quite pathetic, really.


P.S. Is it really cool to fake your country here or something? But yeah I'm from Italy, what a weird thing to put into doubt
 



useruserB said:

So the guy from Italy which has a 22% Vat tax and 20% sales tax, has an issue with Trump putting down 25% Tariffs on select Chinese goods. Ok good one.

Like I posted earlier, video game hardware
meant for sale in the US willl just be manufactured elsewhere if the tariffs are applied to another 300billion of Chinese imports and/or increased beyond 25%. Look at Nintendo hedging by manufacturing some consoles outside of China. The price won't really be affected.

And who knows if the new tarrifs will even be issued. China is back to negotiating.

Also, if Russia sent 20 million of its poorest/uneducated people to Italy, lowering unskilled labor wages and having a substantial number of them not really assimilate and the Illegal russian aliens sent billions back home to Russia in remittances every year. Then have a major political party start pandering heavily to the illegal Russian aliens promising them everything from healthcare to citizenship etc... I'm pretty sure you wouldn't be pleased with that.

Don't worry, soon enough you'll get your wish and we US people will be paying more for videogames/consoles than you Europeans. That's because it's just a matter of time before the Democrats get their super majority. They'll increase taxes heavily to pay for social programs and their Green New Deal(s). Over here in PA, the state government is already trying to tax videogames("mature games" for now) by 10%.

Shit, you got me! I really should have thought twice when I personally crafted the Italian VAT tax.
How hypocritical of me to say tariffs are bad.


The rest is, once again for anyone dumb enough to defend useless tariffs, a bunch of waffle about hordes of evil illegals coming to steal your job, or whatever.      Only you are so ignorant of actual modern day politics that you have to invent a migration crisis from Russia, of all places.                                                         

Just to pop in this hypothetical scenario: these Russians couldn't vote for decades, would be contributing members of society until then, and would still have to become a voting bloc twice as large as the entire foreign born population of Italy to even be considered a minor player in politics.
Spoilers: accusing a party of "catering to illegals" is complete absurdity, and the dumbest your fear mongering can get...



Just to have one last laugh about your basic ignorance: the videogame tax was proposed by a Republican.

You really should google more often