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Forums - Sales Discussion - Global Hardware 1 June 2019

Ganoncrotch said:
Whoa @ that Xbox adjust down. Was the first week at sub 50k and almost jumped to being a sub 40k week.

Being outsold nearly 3:1 by the switch in the USA can clearly see why Nintendo are looking to manufacture some switch units outside of China to avoid the tariff but still crazy to see the X1 lose another 8k off already really bad numbers.

@curl-6 I know they're very likely to do just fine, I just meant it would take that happening to mess up the end of the year for the switch, I agree btw with Starfox on wiiu was so bad to ignore fan feedback telling them not to make that game but I think stuff like that and federation force were learning experiences for Nintendo and they genuinely seem to have learned this Gen.

Bloody hell, those are some shockingly bad numbers for the Xbone after adjustments. Globally, Switch is outselling by more than 4.5:1, and that's without any big new games in ages.

And yeah, if nothing else the Wii U generation was the kick in the arse Nintendo needed to stop living in lala land and start listening to consumers again.

Last edited by curl-6 - on 19 June 2019

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40K eh? Those are some rough numbers, and there's nothing to rescue the XBO from the sales gutter it's getting awfully close to laying face-down in. Seeing how far it falls is the most interesting angle going right now. Just like in sports, I can enjoy a good blowout.



- "If you have the heart of a true winner, you can always get more pissed off than some other asshole."

curl-6 said:
Ganoncrotch said:
Whoa @ that Xbox adjust down. Was the first week at sub 50k and almost jumped to being a sub 40k week.

Being outsold nearly 3:1 by the switch in the USA can clearly see why Nintendo are looking to manufacture some switch units outside of China to avoid the tariff but still crazy to see the X1 lose another 8k off already really bad numbers.

@curl-6 I know they're very likely to do just fine, I just meant it would take that happening to mess up the end of the year for the switch, I agree btw with Starfox on wiiu was so bad to ignore fan feedback telling them not to make that game but I think stuff like that and federation force were learning experiences for Nintendo and they genuinely seem to have learned this Gen.

Bloody hell, those are some shockingly bad numbers for the Xbone after adjustments. Globally, Switch is outselling by more than 4.5:1, and that's without any big new games in ages.

And yeah, if nothing else the Wii U generation was the kick in the arse Nintendo needed to stop living in lala land and start listening to consumers again.

Sometimes though a kick up the arse can help a company see that it fucked up and they try and fix that fast, with the launch PS3 Sony were told fairly straightforward that people weren't paying that price for the system which at the time also historically "had no gaemz" The WiiU for Nintendo was a case of the gimmick getting in the way of the games to the point where games suffered badly for little to no consumer gain and this E3 Microsoft were out talking about Scarlett as the console built for games, no BS about TV streaming or w/e because while a system like that should have those abilities caked into it, they should never be the focus for a console, focus should always be 1st Games 2nd Gimmick 3rd Priced accordingly otherwise people will kick up about it.



Why not check me out on youtube and help me on the way to 2k subs over at www.youtube.com/stormcloudlive

That poor XB1 so sad smh.......PS4 still holding but if only Japan was a little better and Switch is cool as well everything just slow per usual for this time of year.



The absence of evidence is NOT the evidence of absence...

PSN: StlUzumaki23

Is it sure now that Xbox one won't outsell Snes?
:(
Also, it seems that ps4 will have legs after being succeeded only in Europe, unless a price drop can alter that trajectory.
We're near to see if and how much home console Market excluding Nintendo shrunk in 8th gen, at most 10m? ( xbox360+ps3 174m)
Insignificant change in my opinion.



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Ganoncrotch said:
curl-6 said:

Bloody hell, those are some shockingly bad numbers for the Xbone after adjustments. Globally, Switch is outselling by more than 4.5:1, and that's without any big new games in ages.

And yeah, if nothing else the Wii U generation was the kick in the arse Nintendo needed to stop living in lala land and start listening to consumers again.

Sometimes though a kick up the arse can help a company see that it fucked up and they try and fix that fast, with the launch PS3 Sony were told fairly straightforward that people weren't paying that price for the system which at the time also historically "had no gaemz" The WiiU for Nintendo was a case of the gimmick getting in the way of the games to the point where games suffered badly for little to no consumer gain and this E3 Microsoft were out talking about Scarlett as the console built for games, no BS about TV streaming or w/e because while a system like that should have those abilities caked into it, they should never be the focus for a console, focus should always be 1st Games 2nd Gimmick 3rd Priced accordingly otherwise people will kick up about it.

Yeah a nice failure now and then is good for companies, it helps them rectify their mistakes and stops them getting too arrogant and anti-consumer.

Hopefully, for their sake, MS don't do something stupid like calling the Scarlett the "Xbox One Omega" or some shit. The Xbone name has become associated with inferiority and failure.



RolStoppable said:
COKTOE said:
40K eh? Those are some rough numbers, and there's nothing to rescue the XBO from the sales gutter it's getting awfully close to laying face-down in. Seeing how far it falls is the most interesting angle going right now. Just like in sports, I can enjoy a good blowout.

Microsoft would have been better off by skipping the Xbox One X and launching a successor this year or even late last year. While the graphical prowess would have been limited due to cross-gen, a console that is next gen draws a lot more attention than a mid-gen upgrade. The PS5 would then have been more powerful without a doubt due to launching later, but that's something Microsoft could have countered with a mid-gen upgrade for their Xbox 4 in 2022 to have the marketing message on their side again and by the time Sony brought their mid-gen upgrade, the difference wouldn't be as important anymore as it was at the beginning.

What Microsoft actually did was drag out a generation that they had clearly lost, so now their console business is in a very rough time for a couple of years. I suppose they bought into their own PR of "XB1 is outpacing 360 launch-aligned", so they turned a blind eye to proper sales analyses which would have revealed that the XB1 has 0 chance to keep up with the 360 in the long run.

Microsoft was smarter in the fast transition from the original Xbox to the 360 where the headstart clearly paid off. Of course the lesson to learn from the 360 is proper engineering of the console because it creates a bad reputation when the failure rate is so high, but the general idea of a headstart is sound despite not being a surefire ticket to increased success.

That's an interesting thought. Things couldn't realistically get much worse for Xbox, so you may be right.

The downside to that scenario is that the X-Box would have had to, especially if it dropped in 2019, ride out the rest of the gen with a wildly inferior platform to the PS4-Pro, and they were already fairing poorly in direct comparisons to the original PS4. It's possible sales, and the brand may have suffered even more in skipping the X.

 



- "If you have the heart of a true winner, you can always get more pissed off than some other asshole."

COKTOE said:
RolStoppable said:

Microsoft would have been better off by skipping the Xbox One X and launching a successor this year or even late last year. While the graphical prowess would have been limited due to cross-gen, a console that is next gen draws a lot more attention than a mid-gen upgrade. The PS5 would then have been more powerful without a doubt due to launching later, but that's something Microsoft could have countered with a mid-gen upgrade for their Xbox 4 in 2022 to have the marketing message on their side again and by the time Sony brought their mid-gen upgrade, the difference wouldn't be as important anymore as it was at the beginning.

What Microsoft actually did was drag out a generation that they had clearly lost, so now their console business is in a very rough time for a couple of years. I suppose they bought into their own PR of "XB1 is outpacing 360 launch-aligned", so they turned a blind eye to proper sales analyses which would have revealed that the XB1 has 0 chance to keep up with the 360 in the long run.

Microsoft was smarter in the fast transition from the original Xbox to the 360 where the headstart clearly paid off. Of course the lesson to learn from the 360 is proper engineering of the console because it creates a bad reputation when the failure rate is so high, but the general idea of a headstart is sound despite not being a surefire ticket to increased success.

That's an interesting thought. Things couldn't realistically get much worse for Xbox, so you may be right.

The downside to that scenario is that the X-Box would have had to, especially if it dropped in 2019, ride out the rest of the gen with a wildly inferior platform to the PS4-Pro, and they were already fairing poorly in direct comparisons to the original PS4. It's possible sales, and the brand may have suffered even more in skipping the X.

A 2018 or 2019 'XB2' would have been extremely tough to get a decent SSD in there in terms of speed and size, along with PCIe 4.0 or whatever recent/future tech they're using to achieve these loading speeds they are promising. Not to mention it would also almost certainly lack ray tracing. You can imagine PS would probably try to move up their schedule a bit in a 2018 scenario, but they could wait a year if it was launched in 2019 instead. PS having a bigger, faster storage solution, PCIe 4.0, and ray tracing, would be a marketing nuke against MS. The cost for XB to try and come close to the tech and specs PS5 would have, would cost way more than $500 if launched by now or soon. It could have led to another Dreamcast scenario.

Last edited by EricHiggin - on 20 June 2019

COKTOE said:
40K eh? Those are some rough numbers, and there's nothing to rescue the XBO from the sales gutter it's getting awfully close to laying face-down in. Seeing how far it falls is the most interesting angle going right now. Just like in sports, I can enjoy a good blowout.

Pretty much, Switch vs PS4 isn't much of a race any more now that the PS4 is showing its age, and Switch numbers aren't even that interesting due to a lack of big games. Until Mario Maker 2 arrives, about the only reason I check the numbers any more is to see how low Xbox One can go.



EricHiggin said:
COKTOE said:

That's an interesting thought. Things couldn't realistically get much worse for Xbox, so you may be right.

The downside to that scenario is that the X-Box would have had to, especially if it dropped in 2019, ride out the rest of the gen with a wildly inferior platform to the PS4-Pro, and they were already fairing poorly in direct comparisons to the original PS4. It's possible sales, and the brand may have suffered even more in skipping the X.

A 2018 or 2019 'XB2' would have been extremely tough to get a decent SSD in there in terms of speed and size, along with PCIe 4.0 or whatever recent/future tech they're using to achieve these loading speeds they are promising. Not to mention it would also almost certainly lack ray tracing. You can imagine PS would probably try to move up their schedule a bit in a 2018 scenario, but they could wait a year if it was launched in 2019 instead. PS having a bigger, faster storage solution, PCIe 4.0, and ray tracing, would be a marketing nuke against MS. The cost for XB to try and come close to the tech and specs PS5 would have, would cost way more than $500 if launched by now or soon. It could have led to another Dreamcast scenario.

I agree on 2018, but 2019 could have been possible. The main difference probably would have been the version of Navi GPU(without hardware Raytracing in a 2019 case) and Ryzen CPU(Zen 2 instead of potentially Zen 3).

PCIe 4.0 is certainly not used in a console yet (too expensive and consuming, and doubly so for hardware which supports it), the SSD might potentially be smaller (we have to see if PS5/Scarlett really use an SSD as storage or just as a buffer for the HDD) - and it would have been more expensive.

In other words, no Dreamcast scenario - more like a mix of 360 (launching one year early, giving itself a head start) and XBO (somewhat underpowered compared to the competition, but not excessively so).