The comparisons you make are a bit ridiculous .

How can you even start comparing making children eat vegetables to deforming their image about their gender that when wrongly used can result into lifetime depression,did you ever meet someone in depression because of eating vegetables as a child? Because yes we all had to endure it and im sure depression over it is almost nonexistent.

If we discuss suffering in this thread we are clearly not discussing it on the same level as children learning eating food or having to clean their room and it makes me wonder if you even have the slightest bit of understanding about mental health when you bring that up to make a point.

Bolded: The people in this thread would like to have you notice that not all children are willingly having any saying into that situation and that not all children are capable to make a decision about such a mental deforming important matter yet till they are older and to counter you i do find it disgusting to ignore this reasoning because by doing that you erase the individual child to serve the ideology.

Again, stop just asserting that supporting a child in their gender identity is bad for them and show me the evidence. I've got research showing that trans youth who were supported in their transition have no different suicide rate than the general population. So, if you want to make the claim that supporting a child in that manner is causing them suffering then show me something other than your assertion. 

How in the ever living fuck is supporting a child in whatever they decide about their gender (even if they change it more than once) erasing the individual child? Seriously, draw that link for me. Because I have never said that forcing a child in either direction is the way to go so obviously that first part doesn't apply, and I've seen no research that supporting a child who thinks their trans who later decides otherwise is detrimental. 

I didn't reply piece by piece on your post, because I felt it would probably be a waste on both our parts.  But here, we, go.

1) What science?  What actual scientific research has been done that contradicts the current psychological communities view on sexuality?  What is being silenced?  There are plenty of examples of science that is being silenced when it contradicts the common non scientific consensus of certain politics.  Fracking, climate change, mass extinction, etc.

2) This is an example of a poor kid who thanks to botched medical procedure was arbitrarily made to be a girl.  John Money's theories about gender are not the general consensus.  Those parents should have sought a second opinion.  If all that happened was a botched surgery that the child had to live with until they became older and then could make whatever decisions based on sound psychological evaluation I doubt his life would have turned out to be the tragedy it became.  Instead David Reimer had to endure what was clearly child abuse at the hand of John Money.  The dude might be a pedo.  In any event, obviously there is way more research and understanding needed for children born with malformed genitals.

3) Who do you trust then?

4) The common majority view (not the scientific or psychological view) is that LGBTQ is unnatural.  People are being constantly hammered to act within their assigned roles.  Again you are equating this subject to people _wanting_ to be a certain gender.  Completely ignoring Gender dysphoria.  All you end up going by calling 'everyone what they biologically are' is making people experiencing gender dysphoria feel worse.  Possibly leading to suicide as much as miss diagnosing someone as experiencing gender dysphoria.

5) There's tons to unpack with that program.  But yes the participation trophy, you're a winner even though you lost, mentality is often not at all helpful.  Clearly with this program there was an attempt to solve a problem by trying to fix the symptoms but not the underlying cause.  Where was this school?  Was it in a poor neighborhood?  Was the neighborhood in an area prone to violence and crime?  Sounds like the system itself was crap.  Also 'dumb students remained dumb'?  Geese.

6) SMH.  Again as I said before you reduce a very complex issue to humoring them.  Ignoring a person experiencing deep gender dysphoria and enforcing a view of gender specifics on them is what doesn't help them.  It is not a 'fantasy' to not be comfortable with their assigned role.  Trans people are particularly hurt because much of society ridicules them and tries to enforce their views on them.  What you call 'the truth' is really just your opinion.  You have a view of black and white gender specifics and seem to think it will lead to less suicides when I think the evidence says otherwise.

"Youth are generally predisposed to life-threatening behaviors due to a number of conditions, such as self-hatred, victimization via bullying, substance abuse, etc. Transgender youth may also face victimization from peers and family members’ negative reactions to their atypical gender presentation, increasing their risk of life-threatening behaviors. Of the transgender youth who were interviewed and reported an attempt at taking their own life in the aforementioned study, almost all had been verbally abused by their parents, and a significant number had been physically abused as well. In comparing those transgender youth who had and had not attempted suicide, there were significant differences in family relations, peer relations, and school performance." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender_youth#cite_note-GrossmanII-17

I would assert the high levels of suicide among those who are trans, regardless of whether they have gone through actual hormonal transition or not, is due to their constant struggles to be accepted, the constant abuse their endure from society, from being refused housing to being targeted for hate crimes, and the all around disdain they receive from almost everywhere.

7) *deep, beleaguered sigh*  Of course you can shrug off being called a woman.  You think you have a clear understanding of your sexuality and gender.  Being trans is in no way at all like non-conflicted person being called some gender they are not.  These are not non-conflicted people to start with.  They feel outside the societal norms and are often ridiculed for it.  That is where _some_ of the pain comes from, not living in a 'fantasy' and being called out on it.

Trans do need help dealing with and being accepted for what they are.  Trans.  When society stops trying to hurt them and instead tries to help them understand themselves and make the choices they need to make, only then will they be able to live happy healthy lives.  Pretending to be something they are not just to conform to current unhealthy societal norms just keeps them hitting their heads against a wall, all to often leading to suicide.

Again, all this to say is that we need to continue psychological research and refinement of this process.  Gender and gender roles are not cut and dry, black and white.

Of course children at the age of 3 should not be being coerced either way.  Not to be one way or the other.  Just let them play and stop trying to enforce every single old age norm on them.  Trans children nearing the age of puberty should already have been receiving psychological evaluation and support to then be able to make the decision to make a hormonal transition.

I dint mean that there are more trans now, I mean that its on everybody mind cuz its the hot topic. And I never claimed you said anything about clothes. It was an obvious hyperbole I made. 

Dint you just admit just a few post before that you agree with the at least 65% of kids regretting to be trans when they grow up? Then you also agreed to them being high on the suicide scale. Because of other people, thats debatable. But what if these kids grow up seriously confused cuz at 3 they made the wrong choice and you went with it? All the pain that people believe that trans go through would have happened at prepubescent age where no harm would occur. But if they regret the process at the teenage years after they form they behavior and manners and peoples expectation, its a lot harder to adjust. And you accepted that 65% of people regret the decision dint you? Would you take a life altering decision with a 2/3 fail rate from the word of a 3 year old who just learned how to talk? 

65% of kids go back to Cis, that isn't the same as regretting you were trans, that's just deciding you aren't. 

I agreed to them being high and then showed you data saying that if they are supported in their decisions (exactly what I've been advocating for this entire time) that they aren't any higher than their peers. 

What if the kid grows up seriously confused because they made the right choice and you decided to enforce what you wanted on them instead of listening to their feelings? 

And again, I ask what you propose as a solution then? Because my position is that you support the kid in whatever they decide and let them wear what they want and they can figure out things as they move on. You don't enforce either side, you support them in their own decisions. So in what way is that a life altering decision? You telling me that letting my 3 year old boy where a dress if he feels like it instead of enforcing the gender I think he is on him is worse? How so? 

So a kid says its trans at a super young age and they are born that way, being older and they want to go back is just a decision they made. Got it.

And somebody showed you research that transitioning does not fix the underline issue and trans are still just as unhappy and is the main reason for the high suicide rate. So its still much higher than the peers who have not had any issues.

Thats an easy one. adults make the wrong choice all the time. But if we have at least 65% chance of being correct, ill take the chance. But its higher than that, just going by what you are willing to cede. 

I just told you that it has a higher chance to be wrong. Its easier to just enforce what they are born as. A 2-3 year old wont cry cuz it wants to wear a dress. Once the kid is a bit older, maybe 8-10 then they have more sense of what they are talking about. and its still early enough to do any adjustments. 

well said.

Treat them like any other kid. Special cases or treatment makes kids feel more out of place.

I don't believe such research was posted, however, there is research which looks into how transitioning affects transgendered individuals.

Lets take a look:

Overall, while general QOL of transgendered individuals tends to be lower than non-transgendered individuals, transitioning to preferred gender does improve QOL for most individuals. Further, transitioning during adolescence is associated with better outcomes than transitioning as an adult. However, all of this needs to be evaluated within the context of societal mistreatment of transgendered individuals. While transitioning does tend to reduce gender dysphoria (the thing that it tends to be considered a treatment for) and improve many measures of QOL, transitioning also comes with societal pressures. We know from a great body of research on suicide that "peer, school, community, and family based rejection, discrimination, and victimization are associated with greater risk for suicidal behaviors".

As such, we should acknowledge that transitioning is an effective method of treating gender dysphoria, however we should also acknowledge that we need to do better as a society at how we treat these individuals if we are truly concerned about their health. Telling these individuals that they cannot or should not undergo treatment (or telling them that their identity is not valid) because of the suicide rate is simply telling them to continue to suffer because we as a society just can't help ourselves from mistreating a trans person. Personally, I do not find that to be a compelling argument against the medical viability of transitioning and I find it to be a major condemnation of the concern trolls who say that we shouldn't allow transgendered people to be treated because of the suicide rates.

Note: Not all of this post is meant as a direct response to you.

A 5 year old boy playing with dolls doesnt mean he identifies as girl and visa versa

Trans parents and any of the lhtb community love to label it as such tho

For starters, none of the "reassignment surgeries" or treatments for trans people even have a positive effect on trans people. They still end up committing suicide at the same rate. So as far as I'm concerned taking this MASSIVE jump is a mistake. You want to start treating 3 year olds as trans kids, then you need to have some serious evidence. Your heartfelt sympathies is not evidence...

This is the problem with the extreme left. They're jumping the gun and shooting everyone's leg in the process. Shit like this is why, while I used to consider myself a far left voter, I would happily vote Trump in for a second term right now because I don't want to encourage ANY of this nonsense the left is currently pushing. I loved and still love the platform Bernie pushed 4 years ago and I voted for Hillary despite her being a shit candidate, but recent developments are just insane. Trump is the lesser evil here.