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Forums - Politics Discussion - At what point is this child abuse? Trans kids.

 

Encouraging prepubescent gender transformation is...

A good thing. Not child abuse. 10 14.93%
 
A bad thing. Child abuse. 40 59.70%
 
Depends on the situation. (In comments) 17 25.37%
 
Total:67

A person that underwent surgery with irreversible changes and then when looking at the mirror the person says: I am happy with how I look = success, happy story

A person that underwent surgery with irreversible changes and then when looking at the mirror the person says: This is not what I wanted, I feel bad and regret what I did = tragedy

The definition of genders is contested and there is nothing but "suggestions" to define the genders. The Right has their definition for genders, the Left doesn't give a fuck about defining gender, but they want us all to pretend like genders are defined.

I lean to the Left in most situations and want pretty much nothing to do with the Right in most of their positions. I thought I should give some background information about my positions, just in case.



Nintendo is selling their IPs to Microsoft and this is true because:

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=221391&page=1

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Immersiveunreality said:

Consider those possibilities please and consider we are far away from having perfect treatment and support for those poor kids and that was clearly the concern of the OP so no need to put a HATER stamp on his forehead because he made this thread out of worry.

I don't think a thread that asks if supporting a child's view of themselves as transgender is child abuse is worried that our current treatment and understanding of these children is imperfect. Imperfect treatment is not child abuse. 



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Torillian said:
Immersiveunreality said:

Consider those possibilities please and consider we are far away from having perfect treatment and support for those poor kids and that was clearly the concern of the OP so no need to put a HATER stamp on his forehead because he made this thread out of worry.

I don't think a thread that asks if supporting a child's view of themselves as transgender is child abuse is worried that our current treatment and understanding of these children is imperfect. Imperfect treatment is not child abuse. 

If it results in suffering of said child it IS abuse.

If i take a swing at you while thinking it heals you ,would you consider that imperfect treatment or abuse?



Torillian said:
https://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/137/3/e20153223
Interesting research I found while looking around. Conclusion is that children who are supported in their transgender identification show no differences in mental health indicators compared to the average population. Kinda goes against the "transgender people are sick and we shouldn't encourage them" meme that people like Ben Shapiro like to trot out there while they antagonize every trans person they see.

I dont remember anyone here claiming that those people are sick. I could be wrong. But what the op claimed at least is that parents pushing for it is sick. If they are then thats fine, its not 200 years ago where they would be lobotomized. But parents or guardians pushing for it and confusing kids more is disgusting.

And you are aware that trans have an insane suicide rate?

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-transgender-teen-suicide/trans-teens-much-more-likely-to-attempt-suicide-idUSKCN1LS39K

Thats no reason to discourage them in any way. But why not let kids grow a little and then decide when they are a little older. 



It takes genuine talent to see greatness in yourself despite your absence of genuine talent.

Just remembered this one. There was the case of a mom who forced her son to live like a girl
https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/6-year-old-boy-forced-to-live-as-a-girl-while-mom-threatens-dad-for-not-goi



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eva01beserk said:
Torillian said:
https://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/137/3/e20153223
Interesting research I found while looking around. Conclusion is that children who are supported in their transgender identification show no differences in mental health indicators compared to the average population. Kinda goes against the "transgender people are sick and we shouldn't encourage them" meme that people like Ben Shapiro like to trot out there while they antagonize every trans person they see.

I dont remember anyone here claiming that those people are sick. I could be wrong. But what the op claimed at least is that parents pushing for it is sick. If they are then thats fine, its not 200 years ago where they would be lobotomized. But parents or guardians pushing for it and confusing kids more is disgusting.

And you are aware that trans have an insane suicide rate?

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-transgender-teen-suicide/trans-teens-much-more-likely-to-attempt-suicide-idUSKCN1LS39K

Thats no reason to discourage them in any way. But why not let kids grow a little and then decide when they are a little older. 

What I'm saying is that the research I cited is consistent with this "insane suicide rate" being caused by environmental factors (like people not supporting them in their decisions) rather than inherent in being transgender. Thus, supporting your child if they think they are transgender appears to not have any deleterious effects. 

What will you tell a 3 year old that says they are a girl when they were assigned as a boy at birth? If you don't support them in how they identify themselves do you discourage this behavior? 



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melbye said:

Just remembered this one. There was the case of a mom who forced her son to live like a girl
https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/6-year-old-boy-forced-to-live-as-a-girl-while-mom-threatens-dad-for-not-goi

Poor child.



Immersiveunreality said:
Torillian said:

I don't think a thread that asks if supporting a child's view of themselves as transgender is child abuse is worried that our current treatment and understanding of these children is imperfect. Imperfect treatment is not child abuse. 

If it results in suffering of said child it IS abuse.

If i take a swing at you while thinking it heals you ,would you consider that imperfect treatment or abuse?

Under your definition making my kid eat his vegetables is child abuse. He's certainly suffering. Taking away my kid's tablet or turning of the TV is also abuse. 

I've posted research indicating that kids who are supported in their gender identity have no difference in mental health outcomes compared to the average population so where is the evidence that supporting a child in their identified gender is causing enough suffering to be child abuse? Pushing one or another gender on a child, sure, but that can go either way. If you don't support a child in their identified gender and instead tell them "no you're a boy" when they say they are a girl you are being pushy just as much as someone who pushed their child to be transgender. I am arguing that supporting a child in their decision is good, regardless of age. Help them figure out who they are. Calling such parenting child abuse is honestly disgusting. 



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Immersiveunreality said:
melbye said:

Just remembered this one. There was the case of a mom who forced her son to live like a girl
https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/6-year-old-boy-forced-to-live-as-a-girl-while-mom-threatens-dad-for-not-goi

Poor child.

Question: if a parent ignores their child who claims they are transgender and forces them to dress as a boy when they would rather dress as a girl is this also child abuse?



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John2290 said:
Torillian said:
Where was anyone pushing a child to question their gender? What I read sounded like just affirming what the child said themselves rather than anyone pushing a child to do one thing or another.

Updated OP. Consider any circumstance, does a child have the ability to make that decision or to even consider it? 

Yes.  Besides which in order to go through any actual sexual change therapy they have many rounds of evaluation by professionals.  In no example so far is the parent the one making the child do anything. 

'Adults' like to consider 'children' of practically all ages as these beings that couldn't possibly be able to make sounds decisions on _anything_.  For the purpose of law and ambiguity we (per state) have laws on consent for sex at certain ages, voting, alcohol, voting, etc which is all fine and good but in all those things they are essentially best guesses in when we think the person is capable of making those decisions.  Not at all based on any science (if there would be any).

This is all to say that it is not cut and dry that a person has to be an 'adult' to be able to make the decision to change their sex.  In fact in many ways waiting till puberty hits or heck forbid after, can makes things worse.  People forget that puberty changes the body rigorously.  Sexual change transition, when possible should happen before/during puberty.  Again, this is why there is rigorous psychological evaluation before and during the transition in case the process needs to be halted.  The transition itself can take many years and _is_ reversible before a certain point.



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