By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Politics Discussion - At what point is this child abuse? Trans kids.

 

Encouraging prepubescent gender transformation is...

A good thing. Not child abuse. 10 14.93%
 
A bad thing. Child abuse. 40 59.70%
 
Depends on the situation. (In comments) 17 25.37%
 
Total:67
eva01beserk said:
LuccaCardoso1 said:
Puberty doesn't play a role in this discussion because a person's identity has nothing to do with sexuality. Using the word "encourage" is pretty shitty in this case, as it makes it sound like the parents are pushing the kids to make a decision. It's not something you should encourage, but it's something the child should know about and something that should be supported in case the child feels that way.

A 3 year old has no clue what a boy or girl even is. So its one thing to just play along until the child gets older and understands, but even doing it that will just confuse the kid even more by the time he is able to understand whats happening. So if a kid has no idea whats happening and the adult is going along with it then yes that is encouraged behavior. 

At 3 years old, kids want to be firetrucks and mermaids and princesses. They know same about sexuality so the adult going with it is just harmful to the kid.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4955762/#R40

"Children as young as 2 years learn to label themselves as a boy or a girl, and by age 4–5, are able to understand that gender is a stable and lasting aspect of their identity.40 Boys and girls have group differences in toy preference by as early as 12 months and can label other children as boys or girls by age 2.41"

Research seems to indicate that 3 year olds are not that far off from the normal age by which children understand the concept of gender. What information do you have that indicates otherwise?



...

Around the Network
John2290 said:
sundin13 said:

First of all, transgender identity is not a sexual preference. I'm not sure if that is what you were implying here, but that point should be made entirely clear.

Beyond that, what is the harm in allowing a child to express themselves as they see fit? In my opinion, a parenting style of forced conformity is often far more damaging to a child's development than allowing them to discover their own identity without undue pressures. Again, the only way in which I can understand someone coming to the conclusion that this is child abuse is if your own biases lead you to believe that Transgender identity is wrong in some way (ex. morally).

Immersiveunreality made me reply for me pretty much one to one. I just want to state that you are putting words in my mouth before I write anything, please ask the question and not state it as something factual, I do not think that the anything wrong with being transgender. What I do think Is wrong is this trend of considering kids to be transgender before their brain has even half developed to adulthood. I think there should be an age limit into he same way other life altering choices are age restricted. 16 would seem to be a reasonable age to start considering this with exceptions in rare cases under the examintmation of experts. 

How many of these choices are being made without an examination by experts? Pretty sure any parent that thinks their child is transgender or gender non-conforming will take them to see a child psychiatrist unless they literally can't afford it. 

I'll have to look to see if there's been any research on how many of these decisions are being made without the input of experts as you seem to be implying. 



...

"Most children typically develop the ability to recognize and label stereotypical gender groups, such as girl, woman and feminine, and boy, man and masculine, between ages 18 and 24 months. Most also categorize their own gender by age 3 years. However, because gender stereotypes are reinforced, some children learn to behave in ways that bring them the most reward, despite their authentic gender identity. At ages 5 to 6 years, most children are rigid about gender stereotypes and preferences. These feelings typically become more flexible with age."

Mayo Clinic

Might add a little bit to the discussion.



                                                                                                                                                           

John2290 said:
sundin13 said:

First of all, transgender identity is not a sexual preference. I'm not sure if that is what you were implying here, but that point should be made entirely clear.

Beyond that, what is the harm in allowing a child to express themselves as they see fit? In my opinion, a parenting style of forced conformity is often far more damaging to a child's development than allowing them to discover their own identity without undue pressures. Again, the only way in which I can understand someone coming to the conclusion that this is child abuse is if your own biases lead you to believe that Transgender identity is wrong in some way (ex. morally).

Immersiveunreality made me reply for me pretty much one to one. I just want to state that you are putting words in my mouth before I write anything, please ask the question and not state it as something factual, I do not think that the anything wrong with being transgender. What I do think Is wrong is this trend of considering kids to be transgender before their brain has even half developed to adulthood. I think there should be an age limit into he same way other life altering choices are age restricted. 16 would seem to be a reasonable age to start considering this with exceptions in rare cases under the examintmation of experts. 

We are not talking about physical transitioning here. No three year old is undertaking hormone therapy. As such, we are not talking about life altering decisions. There is nothing life altering about a child who was born a male wearing a dress and growing their hair out. If it is determined that the child is not transgendered at the time in which physical transitioning typically starts, they could simply not transition.



https://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/137/3/e20153223
Interesting research I found while looking around. Conclusion is that children who are supported in their transgender identification show no differences in mental health indicators compared to the average population. Kinda goes against the "transgender people are sick and we shouldn't encourage them" meme that people like Ben Shapiro like to trot out there while they antagonize every trans person they see.



...

Around the Network
Torillian said:
eva01beserk said:

A 3 year old has no clue what a boy or girl even is. So its one thing to just play along until the child gets older and understands, but even doing it that will just confuse the kid even more by the time he is able to understand whats happening. So if a kid has no idea whats happening and the adult is going along with it then yes that is encouraged behavior. 

At 3 years old, kids want to be firetrucks and mermaids and princesses. They know same about sexuality so the adult going with it is just harmful to the kid.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4955762/#R40

"Children as young as 2 years learn to label themselves as a boy or a girl, and by age 4–5, are able to understand that gender is a stable and lasting aspect of their identity.40 Boys and girls have group differences in toy preference by as early as 12 months and can label other children as boys or girls by age 2.41"

Research seems to indicate that 3 year olds are not that far off from the normal age by which children understand the concept of gender. What information do you have that indicates otherwise?

https://www.kqed.org/futureofyou/441784/the-controversial-research-on-desistance-in-transgender-youth

about 65-94 percent of those confused kids just grow out of it. 



It takes genuine talent to see greatness in yourself despite your absence of genuine talent.

eva01beserk said:
Torillian said:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4955762/#R40

"Children as young as 2 years learn to label themselves as a boy or a girl, and by age 4–5, are able to understand that gender is a stable and lasting aspect of their identity.40 Boys and girls have group differences in toy preference by as early as 12 months and can label other children as boys or girls by age 2.41"

Research seems to indicate that 3 year olds are not that far off from the normal age by which children understand the concept of gender. What information do you have that indicates otherwise?

https://www.kqed.org/futureofyou/441784/the-controversial-research-on-desistance-in-transgender-youth

about 65-94 percent of those confused kids just grow out of it. 

Appears that the most recent and legitimate study claims 65% but includes anyone that they had no information on as someone that desisted which is arguable so that number is likely decreased. So what is your prescription for parents whose children say they are transgender given that half will desist? You think it's illegitimate to support these children in their conclusion because half of them will reverse the decision in their teen years?

I mean the article I linked previously concluded that trans children who were supported in their decision showed no increased mental health issues compared to their peers so what exactly is the downside to supporting a child who thinks they are transgender?

I will also state that the idea that half of these kids were wrong still shows that most of them had a pretty good idea of what gender is and what their gender is in particular. Only 0.5-0.6% of people identify as transgender so the idea that these kids were only wrong half the time seems to indicate they have a pretty good idea of their gender even at that age. Otherwise there would be 99.5% desistance to match the numbers seen in the general population. 



...

I don't think any child should be put through transitioning: too young to make such a life-altering decision.



sundin13 said:
John2290 said:

Immersiveunreality made me reply for me pretty much one to one. I just want to state that you are putting words in my mouth before I write anything, please ask the question and not state it as something factual, I do not think that the anything wrong with being transgender. What I do think Is wrong is this trend of considering kids to be transgender before their brain has even half developed to adulthood. I think there should be an age limit into he same way other life altering choices are age restricted. 16 would seem to be a reasonable age to start considering this with exceptions in rare cases under the examintmation of experts. 

We are not talking about physical transitioning here. No three year old is undertaking hormone therapy. As such, we are not talking about life altering decisions. There is nothing life altering about a child who was born a male wearing a dress and growing their hair out. If it is determined that the child is not transgendered at the time in which physical transitioning typically starts, they could simply not transition.

I understand what you mean but mental development is evenly important for a child and if treated wrongly it might make them depressed for the rest of their lives.

And if you think that all people working as "experts"on that field act humane then you should consider that ideology can seep into even the medical and mental health departments like a plague,some are in for profit and others are ignorant.

I have been very much invested into the treatment of autistic kids and maybe you think that is a bad comparison but i learned people in those fields sometimes just care about their own wellbeings and they see those kids as moneymachines and we are some good steps ahead with autists compared to transgender kids.

Consider those possibilities please and consider we are far away from having perfect treatment and support for those poor kids and that was clearly the concern of the OP so no need to put a HATER stamp on his forehead because he made this thread out of worry.



In Charlize Theron's case it seems that since the kid has no father-figure in his life and that has affected the child in some ways. The only role-model he has to look up to is his mother and grandmother so no wonder he wants to be a girl



Nothing to see here, move along