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Forums - Sports Discussion - 2019 NBA Postseason: The Toronto Raptors are NBA Champions!

hatmoza said:

That's a shocking win. Honestly did not see that coming.

I'm conflicted. I don't want the raptors to win because I have zero respect for them after their mental collapse against Lebron James last year. And I don't care for the Warriors getting a 3-peat.

This Raptors team is very different from the one last year.

Different coach, different role players, and more importanly, a different star player.
Nick Nurse is a strong candidate for Coach of the Year.
Marc Gasol is an upgrade from Jonas Valanciunas, Danny Green is a solid 2-way player with championship experience, and they went from their best player being Demar Derozan, who was a top 20, maybe top 15 player, to their best player being Kawhi Leonard, who you can make a very good case for being the best player on the planet. 

I'd go as far as to say that if LeBron James was still in the East, playing for the Cavs, the Raptors, with the changes and upgrades they clearly made, would have still made it to the NBA Finals.



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PAOerfulone said:
hatmoza said:

That's a shocking win. Honestly did not see that coming.

I'm conflicted. I don't want the raptors to win because I have zero respect for them after their mental collapse against Lebron James last year. And I don't care for the Warriors getting a 3-peat.

This Raptors team is very different from the one last year.

Different coach, different role players, and more importanly, a different star player.
Nick Nurse is a strong candidate for Coach of the Year.
Marc Gasol is an upgrade from Jonas Valanciunas, Danny Green is a solid 2-way player with championship experience, and they went from their best player being Demar Derozan, who was a top 20, maybe top 15 player, to their best player being Kawhi Leonard, who you can make a very good case for being the best player on the planet. 

I'd go as far as to say that if LeBron James was still in the East, playing for the Cavs, the Raptors, with the changes and upgrades they clearly made, would have still made it to the NBA Finals.

This version of the Raptors would easily beat the James Cavs from last year. 



NightlyPoe said:
Soundwave said:

This version of the Raptors would easily beat the James Cavs from last year. 

Oh, yeah.  Definitely.  I'd put these guys above any of the Cavs teams even before Kyrie took off.  Even when things were going well and everyone was healthy, those Cavs teams still felt like half the team was cobbled together with cardboard, duck tape, and string.  I loved the Gasol move as a "win now" trade.

Matter of fact, these guys would match up well with those Heat teams a few years back.

If I were advising Kawhi, I'd suggest signing a one-year deal and just ending all speculation by saying he's there for one more year and then he has to go right off the bat.  Everyone important accept Danny Green is still under contract, so they'll be viable next year as well.  After that, the Raptors will have to make some choices.

Let's not get carried away.  Let's not forget these Raptors nearly missed the finals because they kept forgetting how to play basketball in the second half of games. They do have deeper talent though.   I think the 2016 Cavs would beat them, if hard fought.  The 2017 Cavs would take them a lot more comfortably.  2015 was the growing pains year, that would have been a lot rougher.  The best Heat teams would definitely beat them.  Even if they put up a valiant effort.  They're better than people want to admit, but let's not forget the Warriors here, while still unquestionably very dangerous, are also very much hobbled by their injury woes.



NightlyPoe said:
Dark_Lord_2008 said:
Reggie Miller over Larry Bird and Steph Curry. I remember back in the day. People would say "Miller" every time someone shoots a 3-pointer.
Miller was the go to guy for 3-point shot, he was the best 3-point shooter of his era.. Miller usually averaged 90% from free throw line.

Not sure if this post is being facetious or not, but Miller is a good example of disruption.  To just look at his stats line and accolades, you'd wonder how this guy made it in to the Hall of Fame.*  Yet his teams that never had any other stars kept getting to the Conference Finals

Because Miller's shot had to be respected, he made his overall team better.  It wasn't flashy, but it was effective and why he was a better player than many of the athletic wonders and high scorers.

In fairness they let anyone into the NBA Hall of Fame.  I think they were going to induct me a few years back, but I didn't check my mail that week and missed my bust artist appointment.

Well its the Basketball Hall of Fame and it covers all aspects of basketball the NBA, college, high school and international basketball.  My high school basketball coach Robert Hughes who had the most wins by a high school coach when he retired with 1,333 wins was inducted in 2017. 



NightlyPoe said:
Nuvendil said:

Let's not get carried away.  Let's not forget these Raptors nearly missed the finals because they kept forgetting how to play basketball in the second half of games. They do have deeper talent though.   I think the 2016 Cavs would beat them, if hard fought.  The 2017 Cavs would take them a lot more comfortably.  2015 was the growing pains year, that would have been a lot rougher.  The best Heat teams would definitely beat them.  Even if they put up a valiant effort.  They're better than people want to admit, but let's not forget the Warriors here, while still unquestionably very dangerous, are also very much hobbled by their injury woes.

Maybe I'm a bit biased, but I was never a big fan of those Cavs teams as a total team package.  Also, the Heat were challenged by Chicago and Indiana, so it's not difficult to imagine this Raptors team giving them a lot of trouble.

Anyway, Durant's injury does indeed seem to be his Achilles.  It's been something that's been speculated for awhile that it wasn't really a calf injury as he was icing lower than the calf in practice.  If he did tear it, that quarter he played last night might well put him on the shelf almost all next season and mark the end of his reign as a dominant player.  Best case scenario, unless your name happens to be Dominique Wilkins, is that it takes a couple of years to return to form and by then he'll be 33-34.  If I'm a GM, I don't think I'm betting my franchise on that (though I'm sure several would).

He's gotta stay with Golden State, right?  The whole idea of being his own man and carrying New York or whoever on his back with Kyrie would just be delusional.  Golden State is now the only place that makes sense for him.  They can give him the biggest contract and he can recover in his own time.  The whole idea that the Warriors don't need Durant has been shot the last couple weeks anyway.

Yeah, leaving is looking like a much less viable option.  On the other hand, moving somewhere where he isn't as crucial to the team strategy could ease the burden on him as well.  It will be interesting to see what he does.



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NightlyPoe said:
Nuvendil said:

Let's not get carried away.  Let's not forget these Raptors nearly missed the finals because they kept forgetting how to play basketball in the second half of games. They do have deeper talent though.   I think the 2016 Cavs would beat them, if hard fought.  The 2017 Cavs would take them a lot more comfortably.  2015 was the growing pains year, that would have been a lot rougher.  The best Heat teams would definitely beat them.  Even if they put up a valiant effort.  They're better than people want to admit, but let's not forget the Warriors here, while still unquestionably very dangerous, are also very much hobbled by their injury woes.

Maybe I'm a bit biased, but I was never a big fan of those Cavs teams as a total team package.  Also, the Heat were challenged by Chicago and Indiana, so it's not difficult to imagine this Raptors team giving them a lot of trouble.

Anyway, Durant's injury does indeed seem to be his Achilles.  It's been something that's been speculated for awhile that it wasn't really a calf injury as he was icing lower than the calf in practice.  If he did tear it, that quarter he played last night might well put him on the shelf almost all next season and mark the end of his reign as a dominant player.  Best case scenario, unless your name happens to be Dominique Wilkins, is that it takes a couple of years to return to form and by then he'll be 33-34.  If I'm a GM, I don't think I'm betting my franchise on that (though I'm sure several would).

He's gotta stay with Golden State, right?  The whole idea of being his own man and carrying New York or whoever on his back with Kyrie would just be delusional.  Golden State is now the only place that makes sense for him.  They can give him the biggest contract and he can recover in his own time.  The whole idea that the Warriors don't need Durant has been shot the last couple weeks anyway.

Wow, an Achilles injury sounds like serious business.



NightlyPoe said:
Nuvendil said:

Yeah, leaving is looking like a much less viable option.  On the other hand, moving somewhere where he isn't as crucial to the team strategy could ease the burden on him as well.  It will be interesting to see what he does.

I was thinking the opposite.  He goes to somewhere like New York, Brooklyn, or the Clippers and he is the team.

That was the plan wasn't it?  To make a name for himself as an unquestioned alpha dog.  To erase the perception that he had to join the best team in the league to win championships and to lay a claim to that GOAT discussion that we were just having.

Well yeah that might have been his plan but he has to rethink that.  Obviously.  

Plus, if he wants into that discussion he needs multiple All Defensive Teams and a couple more MVPs.  That would do more for his discussion probabilities than anything else.



KLAMarine said:
NightlyPoe said:

Maybe I'm a bit biased, but I was never a big fan of those Cavs teams as a total team package.  Also, the Heat were challenged by Chicago and Indiana, so it's not difficult to imagine this Raptors team giving them a lot of trouble.

Anyway, Durant's injury does indeed seem to be his Achilles.  It's been something that's been speculated for awhile that it wasn't really a calf injury as he was icing lower than the calf in practice.  If he did tear it, that quarter he played last night might well put him on the shelf almost all next season and mark the end of his reign as a dominant player.  Best case scenario, unless your name happens to be Dominique Wilkins, is that it takes a couple of years to return to form and by then he'll be 33-34.  If I'm a GM, I don't think I'm betting my franchise on that (though I'm sure several would).

He's gotta stay with Golden State, right?  The whole idea of being his own man and carrying New York or whoever on his back with Kyrie would just be delusional.  Golden State is now the only place that makes sense for him.  They can give him the biggest contract and he can recover in his own time.  The whole idea that the Warriors don't need Durant has been shot the last couple weeks anyway.

Wow, an Achilles injury sounds like serious business.

It is. Look what happened to Kobe Bryant. He was having one of the best individual seasons of his career and then BAM, tears his Achilles (against Golden State, ironically enough), and he was never the same again. When he suffered that injury, that was the end of Kobe Bryant as we knew him. Granted, Kobe was already 34 years old when it happened, he was past prime and close to the end of his career anyways. Kevin Durant is still 30 and still in his prime. But this is the type of injury that can cut down a man's prime right where it is. Even if he does make a full recovery, which usually takes around 4-6 months, he may not be the same player he was before. He'll still be really good, but not "best player in the world" calibur.



Leonard sat out 2 seasons due to injury and leads a new team to a title. Many people had forgotten about him and he comes back amazingly.



Well, it's official. It's a ruptured Achilles tendon for Kevin Durant. He already had surgery and is expected to be out for 6-9 months. That means he'll be out for the most, if not the entire, 2019-20 NBA Season.

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/kevin-durant-injury-update-warriors-star-undergoes-surgery-for-ruptured-achilles-tendon/