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curl-6 said:

It's rather funny that the MAGA crowd make out that Biden is old and decrepit while Trump is some champion alpha male, when Donald's not only just four years younger but morbidly obese and talks like he has dementia.

Its actually pretty easy.  First they get their subject matter from the President and other conservative media which have used multiple videos including fake ones to make it appear that Joe has dementia.  Then its discussed ad nauseum on forums where anyone who even jumps in for a second would believe its fact.  Then it gets stated multiple times in social media to the point that people have willed it to be true.

The difference between Biden and Trump is that I could not really see the same thing being done with Trump as far as Dementia is concerned.  They may say he is an idiot and a host of other things but none never centered on a specific feature like Biden having Dementia.

Its actually quite interesting how a few twisted media, videos and statements become fact to people especially when you thrown in social media ability to send out misinformation to millions. 



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Machiavellian said:

I really believe sometimes you have a problem understanding what I am saying.  Let me make this more obvious so that you do not continue to miss my point.  I was not making any comment about science and how its researched, tested, hypothesized etc, I am talking about how people perceive information.  Actually you really should go back and look at what is theory and what is exactly fact, because I believe you have a problem with understanding which is which.

Either way, getting back on point, the point is that when trying to make someone understand your point, how do you convey that information you provide is correct and their information is wrong.  The reason we have people that believe the earth is flat is because of perception.  Anyone can find information that support their belief and this is why you will constantly have people believe all sorts of stuff.  The question is how would you make them see your side of any discussion on any of those point.

You make me believe that you have never had any discussion with people who think totally different from you or perceive events and situations totally different.  Have you actually had any conversations with someone who is antimask.  I have had multiple conversations on the topic with educated individuals and believe you me, we all throw out reports and articles for and against.  We use doctors opinion and models based on study and you will be surprised how not so easy it is to sway someone to your point when they can easily find a counter whether its solid or not.

You can always go for a demonstration. Tell them to wear a mask and spit in their face on the mask. Then ask them, would you like me to do that again without the mask? Did it work?


Flat earthers, I guess they are so far gone you literally have to take them up into space to convince them. I do wonder what their theory is about time zones?

Wow, interesting

In the most popular flat-Earth maps, the North Pole sits roughly at the center of the planetary disc, while Antarctica forms a giant ice wall along the planet's circumference. The equator forms a ring hallway between the two.

Many flat-Earthers agree that the sun perfectly circles the ring of the equator on the equinox; however, to account for the equal hours of daytime and nighttime, the models make a few tweaks to how the sun itself looks and behaves.

While you might envision the sun as an enormous ball of exploding gas located 93 million miles (150 million kilometers) away, a flat-Earther would see it as a teeny, tiny spotlight hovering just over the Earth. How teeny and how close is it? According to the early flat-Earth thinker Samuel Birley Rowbotham, who published the influential treatise "Zetetic Astronomy: Earth Not a Globe" in 1881, the sun is only about 32 miles (52 km) in diameter and hovers anywhere from 400 to 700 miles (640 to 1,130 km) above the Earth, depending on the month.




I guess this is just a hoax :)



Anyway, yep, it's a difficult task to argue with people that lack basic understanding of science and the scientific method.



I wonder what'll happen when Biden's 8 years are over and all of the cultists suddenly have a much better life. I guess they're gonna attribute that to Trump's forward planning?



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SvennoJ said:
Machiavellian said:

I really believe sometimes you have a problem understanding what I am saying.  Let me make this more obvious so that you do not continue to miss my point.  I was not making any comment about science and how its researched, tested, hypothesized etc, I am talking about how people perceive information.  Actually you really should go back and look at what is theory and what is exactly fact, because I believe you have a problem with understanding which is which.

Either way, getting back on point, the point is that when trying to make someone understand your point, how do you convey that information you provide is correct and their information is wrong.  The reason we have people that believe the earth is flat is because of perception.  Anyone can find information that support their belief and this is why you will constantly have people believe all sorts of stuff.  The question is how would you make them see your side of any discussion on any of those point.

You make me believe that you have never had any discussion with people who think totally different from you or perceive events and situations totally different.  Have you actually had any conversations with someone who is antimask.  I have had multiple conversations on the topic with educated individuals and believe you me, we all throw out reports and articles for and against.  We use doctors opinion and models based on study and you will be surprised how not so easy it is to sway someone to your point when they can easily find a counter whether its solid or not.

You can always go for a demonstration. Tell them to wear a mask and spit in their face on the mask. Then ask them, would you like me to do that again without the mask? Did it work?


Flat earthers, I guess they are so far gone you literally have to take them up into space to convince them. I do wonder what their theory is about time zones?

Wow, interesting

In the most popular flat-Earth maps, the North Pole sits roughly at the center of the planetary disc, while Antarctica forms a giant ice wall along the planet's circumference. The equator forms a ring hallway between the two.

Many flat-Earthers agree that the sun perfectly circles the ring of the equator on the equinox; however, to account for the equal hours of daytime and nighttime, the models make a few tweaks to how the sun itself looks and behaves.

While you might envision the sun as an enormous ball of exploding gas located 93 million miles (150 million kilometers) away, a flat-Earther would see it as a teeny, tiny spotlight hovering just over the Earth. How teeny and how close is it? According to the early flat-Earth thinker Samuel Birley Rowbotham, who published the influential treatise "Zetetic Astronomy: Earth Not a Globe" in 1881, the sun is only about 32 miles (52 km) in diameter and hovers anywhere from 400 to 700 miles (640 to 1,130 km) above the Earth, depending on the month.




Sometimes, I wish to pay a ticket into space for some influential flat-earther - and livestream the event and the entire flight on his channel. It would cost me an arm and a leg and then some, but I would consider that entirely worth it if this would punch some common sense into that person and his followers.

And one flat-earther tried something similar: He sent himself up in a rocket and landed safely afterwards. The problem: He went up a grand total of 570 meters. But since that wasn't enough to see any curvature of the earth, he declared that earth is officially flat.



Bofferbrauer2 said:

Sometimes, I wish to pay a ticket into space for some influential flat-earther - and livestream the event and the entire flight on his channel. It would cost me an arm and a leg and then some, but I would consider that entirely worth it if this would punch some common sense into that person and his followers.

And one flat-earther tried something similar: He sent himself up in a rocket and landed safely afterwards. The problem: He went up a grand total of 570 meters. But since that wasn't enough to see any curvature of the earth, he declared that earth is officially flat.

Haha yeah I read that part as well. 570 meters.... The Burj Khalifa in Dubai is 828 meters tall!

They probably have their theories about ships disappearing, sinking into the horizon as well. There are so many ways to 'discover' that the Earth is round, yet once you start envisioning the sun as a spot light with shades doing circles over a flat disc... I mean, gravity is kinda hard to miss standing on the Earth, centripetal force is easily demonstrated, yet how does the spot light stay up there.

All you need is to have one on the ground floor and one at the top of a tower with clear view of the horizon, video chat, I can still see the sun, I can't anymore, how come. Even if you go with the sun as a spotlight with shades, the person on the ground should see the sun longer, not the one on top of the tower. Maybe light has a finite distance and fizzles out?

Poor education, that's the only thing I can come up with.



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SvennoJ said:
Bofferbrauer2 said:

Sometimes, I wish to pay a ticket into space for some influential flat-earther - and livestream the event and the entire flight on his channel. It would cost me an arm and a leg and then some, but I would consider that entirely worth it if this would punch some common sense into that person and his followers.

And one flat-earther tried something similar: He sent himself up in a rocket and landed safely afterwards. The problem: He went up a grand total of 570 meters. But since that wasn't enough to see any curvature of the earth, he declared that earth is officially flat.

Haha yeah I read that part as well. 570 meters.... The Burj Khalifa in Dubai is 828 meters tall!

They probably have their theories about ships disappearing, sinking into the horizon as well. There are so many ways to 'discover' that the Earth is round, yet once you start envisioning the sun as a spot light with shades doing circles over a flat disc... I mean, gravity is kinda hard to miss standing on the Earth, centripetal force is easily demonstrated, yet how does the spot light stay up there.

All you need is to have one on the ground floor and one at the top of a tower with clear view of the horizon, video chat, I can still see the sun, I can't anymore, how come. Even if you go with the sun as a spotlight with shades, the person on the ground should see the sun longer, not the one on top of the tower. Maybe light has a finite distance and fizzles out?

Poor education, that's the only thing I can come up with.

One of my favorite explanations for the ship sinking is that light is affected by gravity. It inverts the assumption and then you can't really prove the earth is round that way. 



...

There is a strong tendency that people who've been wrong a lot in many different situations gravitate towards conspiracy theories and alternative facts (or how it used to be called: bullshit). There is a desire to one-up the majority of the population by being in the know of something that the majority is oblivious of. That's why it's usually a lost cause to try to convince them, because if they changed their mind, it would be yet another repeat of what they've gone through so often before. They'll opt to double down on their beliefs in almost every case, because they want to retain their feeling of being smart.

The internet has allowed movements to form, because whereas previously every town had only one or two nutjobs, they can now assimiliate and share their views with each other. Popular internet platforms like social media and Youtube use algorithms to recommend things to people that they likely want to see, because that keeps generating more ad revenue for them. Since the people who fall prey to conspiracy theories and other bullshit aren't particularly smart to begin with, they get easily trapped within a bubble with a lot of like-minded people. And because they aren't smart, they'll likely never have a revelation to get out of it anymore.



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vivster said:

I wonder what'll happen when Biden's 8 years are over and all of the cultists suddenly have a much better life. I guess they're gonna attribute that to Trump's forward planning?

Naw, they will find something that says their lives were worse under Biden you can be sure of that.  Having had conversations with people who thought that Obama was a terrible President, I asked them how did they measure this.  They stated their 401K and other money metrics which I then provided sources that show how Obama years fared compared to Trump but it was dismissed.  When people want to believe something, they will always find a way to vote against their own interest in spite of themselves.



SvennoJ said:
Machiavellian said:

I really believe sometimes you have a problem understanding what I am saying.  Let me make this more obvious so that you do not continue to miss my point.  I was not making any comment about science and how its researched, tested, hypothesized etc, I am talking about how people perceive information.  Actually you really should go back and look at what is theory and what is exactly fact, because I believe you have a problem with understanding which is which.

Either way, getting back on point, the point is that when trying to make someone understand your point, how do you convey that information you provide is correct and their information is wrong.  The reason we have people that believe the earth is flat is because of perception.  Anyone can find information that support their belief and this is why you will constantly have people believe all sorts of stuff.  The question is how would you make them see your side of any discussion on any of those point.

You make me believe that you have never had any discussion with people who think totally different from you or perceive events and situations totally different.  Have you actually had any conversations with someone who is antimask.  I have had multiple conversations on the topic with educated individuals and believe you me, we all throw out reports and articles for and against.  We use doctors opinion and models based on study and you will be surprised how not so easy it is to sway someone to your point when they can easily find a counter whether its solid or not.

You can always go for a demonstration. Tell them to wear a mask and spit in their face on the mask. Then ask them, would you like me to do that again without the mask? Did it work?

That would not work because they will show you a study that the virus is airborne and its much smaller than the fabric of your common cloth mask.  They would say because of that the Virus doesn't stay within droplets but is passed from your breath.

Flat earthers, I guess they are so far gone you literally have to take them up into space to convince them. I do wonder what their theory is about time zones?

Unfortunately I have not found anyone that far gone to have a conversation with them why they believe this BS.  I was thinking about finding a forum where they gather and start tossing some info to see how they think but I hardly have the time to respond on this board.

Wow, interesting

In the most popular flat-Earth maps, the North Pole sits roughly at the center of the planetary disc, while Antarctica forms a giant ice wall along the planet's circumference. The equator forms a ring hallway between the two.

Many flat-Earthers agree that the sun perfectly circles the ring of the equator on the equinox; however, to account for the equal hours of daytime and nighttime, the models make a few tweaks to how the sun itself looks and behaves.

While you might envision the sun as an enormous ball of exploding gas located 93 million miles (150 million kilometers) away, a flat-Earther would see it as a teeny, tiny spotlight hovering just over the Earth. How teeny and how close is it? According to the early flat-Earth thinker Samuel Birley Rowbotham, who published the influential treatise "Zetetic Astronomy: Earth Not a Globe" in 1881, the sun is only about 32 miles (52 km) in diameter and hovers anywhere from 400 to 700 miles (640 to 1,130 km) above the Earth, depending on the month.




I guess this is just a hoax :)



Anyway, yep, it's a difficult task to argue with people that lack basic understanding of science and the scientific method.

When you really think about it Flat Earthers are the extreme but what about events that truly have good arguing points.  The internet is a great tool and social media is a great vehicle for info but the cons is that there is to much info and a lot of it is bad or misinformation.  Trump presidency and how social media was used to help is a great example.



They really need to invest in some sort of de-radicalization programs to try to help people who've been sucked into this cultist shit and also to educate kids about conspiracy theories/cults/propaganda so the next generation isn't so easily sucked in.

Last edited by curl-6 - on 22 January 2021

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