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So Trumps carelessly messing around with highly classified top secret nuclear docs? How did he manage that?

Did he pack and move them all himself without somehow raising any concerns, like a ninja? He's only an orange belt right?

Terrible timing for Trump considering NYC started airing this nuclear PSA early in July.

Trump caught with nuclear docs, Putin on the war path to destroy the west. It's all becoming clear now.

Didn't Trump say, “I could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn’t lose voters”?

The FBI does always seem to be behind the ball aren't they? Or did they actually get ahead of it this time?



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Well of course he did not do it alone, that is why there is an investigation.  The FBI gave him all the courtesy they would not give a regular citizen to hand over those documents.  The FBI does not get involved until some one raise the issue to the FBI which was the NARA.  You know the same agency that went to the FBI once they got the first 15 boxes, found destroyed docs and missing information.  From there everything been pretty much by the book.  They subpoenaed the information missing, they sent investigators to his residents to get the information, they request video tapes of the area where the documents were stored and they got him and his lawyer to sign a letter saying he returned all the docs.

So if you take the complete timeline from the first moment the NARA said turn over our stuff to a couple weeks ago, they gave Trump ever bit of a chance to do the right thing and he told them to go F themselves.  Now as usual his actions will cause all kinds of BS but the people that support him seems to never actually question why did it even have to get to this point if he just gave up those documents.

I am sure by the end of this BS there will be multiple charges filed, who knows if one of them is Trump but one thing you cannot question is that he and he alone got us here.



Machiavellian said:

Well of course he did not do it alone, that is why there is an investigation.  The FBI gave him all the courtesy they would not give a regular citizen to hand over those documents.  The FBI does not get involved until some one raise the issue to the FBI which was the NARA.  You know the same agency that went to the FBI once they got the first 15 boxes, found destroyed docs and missing information.  From there everything been pretty much by the book.  They subpoenaed the information missing, they sent investigators to his residents to get the information, they request video tapes of the area where the documents were stored and they got him and his lawyer to sign a letter saying he returned all the docs.

So if you take the complete timeline from the first moment the NARA said turn over our stuff to a couple weeks ago, they gave Trump ever bit of a chance to do the right thing and he told them to go F themselves.  Now as usual his actions will cause all kinds of BS but the people that support him seems to never actually question why did it even have to get to this point if he just gave up those documents.

I am sure by the end of this BS there will be multiple charges filed, who knows if one of them is Trump but one thing you cannot question is that he and he alone got us here.

the-pi-guy said:
ConservagameR said:

So Trumps carelessly messing around with highly classified top secret nuclear docs? How did he manage that?

Did he pack and move them all himself without somehow raising any concerns, like a ninja? He's only an orange belt right?

This is a question that I feel like is either good or really bad depending on what assumptions are made, vs what the reality is.

Like depending on your assumptions on what kind of access the president actually would have to these documents, as well as what level of oversight those documents have, as well as how much was actually packed.For example, the president probably didn't pack his own things. 

How much oversight did he need for those documents? Maybe he has full access to a library of these documents and can just take whatever he wants, because he's the president. Or does he have to ask people for those documents, and do those people keep records of what documents that the president has asked for? And how do they keep track of what documents were returned?

If his people packed like 500 boxes, and like 15 of them apparently had classified information. And if there wasn't any real record keeping going on, then there's no need for ninja-like feats. There's nothing even to question there. It could be like if you accidentally took 2 boxes of someone else's books, when you moved last time.

I find a lot of conspiracies start up this way. People don't know how something works, so they start poking holes in a scenario where are none.

If nobody keeps track of the docs being taken, that doesn't seem like it would be Trumps fault, and would be really really scary in general.

If somebody packed up docs that shouldn't have been, that doesn't seem like it would be Trumps fault, unless he has to document everything later.

Now if he took the docs and shouldn't, or knows they're somewhere in a box, and won't give them back, but legally has to, then sure, that's a problem.

Yet if the Government didn't keep any track and Trump hadn't gone through everything yet to find these docs, then I don't see how that's his fault.

Since Trump quickly agreed to the warrant release, they should now produce the affidavit so everyone knows more about the core reasons why.

Well if they don't charge Trump, or if they carelessly do and it doesn't stick, it's sure going to lead to some heavy conspiracy theories trending.

Last edited by ConservagameR - on 16 August 2022

ConservagameR said:

If nobody keeps track of the docs being taken, that doesn't seem like it would be Trumps fault, and would be really really scary in general.

If somebody packed up docs that shouldn't have been, that doesn't seem like it would be Trumps fault, unless he has to document everything later.

Now if he took the docs and shouldn't, or knows they're somewhere in a box, and won't give them back, but legally has to, then sure, that's a problem.

Yet if the Government didn't keep any track and Trump hadn't gone through everything yet to find these docs, then I don't see how that's his fault.

Since Trump quickly agreed to the warrant release, they should now produce the affidavit so everyone knows more about the core reasons why.

Well if they don't charge Trump, or if they carelessly do and it doesn't stick, it's sure going to lead to some heavy conspiracy theories trending.

The thing is no one is charging Trump for taking the documents or actually holding him at fault for that.  They are charging him for keeping the documents when subpoena to give them back.  A subpoena is not a request, its an order and if any regular citizen was to violate that subpoena just like Trump is now, they would be facing criminal charges.  There is real context here you seem to be throwing away.

As soon as those docs were in Trump possession no matter how they got their, it was his duty to check each and everyone of those boxes and give up the request docs.  Its not like he did not know where the info was and trying to play a game that oh I did not know after 18 months of this BS does not cut it.  Either he is lying or neglect either one shows unfit to be cleared to ever come close to classified, secrete or Top secrete docs.  Ignorance is not an excuse you can rely on.

LoL, Trump could have release the warrant himself, he did not have to wait until a court judge release the warrant.  He had no choice but to let it be release because to do otherwise makes him look guilty.

The government is not going to release the affidavit  because they are still doing an investigation.  If they obtain their info based on informants and other means, they are not going to release that info until after they come to a conclusion to prosecute Trump and anyone else involved in this BS.

The big problem I have with your line of thought is this.  Whether knowingly or unknowingly it was still Trump's responsibility to give back documents that was not his to take.  He had 18 months to get this done so its not like he was pressured by some crazy time table.  The FBI afforded him every opportunity to give those documents back and he chose not to do so.  Whether he did not care, dismissed the subpoena, did not do his due diligence to make sure he did not still have the docs you name it.  It still falls on his shoulders to have made sure that was the case.  After having his lawyer sign a letter saying he returned those docs and still be in possession of them nobody fault but his.  What was the FBI going to do, just let it go.  Send another subpoena he already dismissed.  Trump forced this situation and now he has to deal with it.



Machiavellian said:
ConservagameR said:

If nobody keeps track of the docs being taken, that doesn't seem like it would be Trumps fault, and would be really really scary in general.

If somebody packed up docs that shouldn't have been, that doesn't seem like it would be Trumps fault, unless he has to document everything later.

Now if he took the docs and shouldn't, or knows they're somewhere in a box, and won't give them back, but legally has to, then sure, that's a problem.

Yet if the Government didn't keep any track and Trump hadn't gone through everything yet to find these docs, then I don't see how that's his fault.

Since Trump quickly agreed to the warrant release, they should now produce the affidavit so everyone knows more about the core reasons why.

Well if they don't charge Trump, or if they carelessly do and it doesn't stick, it's sure going to lead to some heavy conspiracy theories trending.

The thing is no one is charging Trump for taking the documents or actually holding him at fault for that.  They are charging him for keeping the documents when subpoena to give them back.  A subpoena is not a request, its an order and if any regular citizen was to violate that subpoena just like Trump is now, they would be facing criminal charges.  There is real context here you seem to be throwing away.

As soon as those docs were in Trump possession no matter how they got their, it was his duty to check each and everyone of those boxes and give up the request docs.  Its not like he did not know where the info was and trying to play a game that oh I did not know after 18 months of this BS does not cut it.  Either he is lying or neglect either one shows unfit to be cleared to ever come close to classified, secrete or Top secrete docs.  Ignorance is not an excuse you can rely on.

LoL, Trump could have release the warrant himself, he did not have to wait until a court judge release the warrant.  He had no choice but to let it be release because to do otherwise makes him look guilty.

The government is not going to release the affidavit  because they are still doing an investigation.  If they obtain their info based on informants and other means, they are not going to release that info until after they come to a conclusion to prosecute Trump and anyone else involved in this BS.

The big problem I have with your line of thought is this.  Whether knowingly or unknowingly it was still Trump's responsibility to give back documents that was not his to take.  He had 18 months to get this done so its not like he was pressured by some crazy time table.  The FBI afforded him every opportunity to give those documents back and he chose not to do so.  Whether he did not care, dismissed the subpoena, did not do his due diligence to make sure he did not still have the docs you name it.  It still falls on his shoulders to have made sure that was the case.  After having his lawyer sign a letter saying he returned those docs and still be in possession of them nobody fault but his.  What was the FBI going to do, just let it go.  Send another subpoena he already dismissed.  Trump forced this situation and now he has to deal with it.

A bunch of my thought there was based on what you two said in the prior post.

If Trump didn't ask for anything he couldn't have, and some stuff got packed in accidentally, then it makes sense from a certain perspective that he wouldn't bring it up if he found docs later, because it would almost certainly make the news that Trump had stuff he wasn't supposed to. The fact it was all on him at that point, sketchy while seemingly confessing guilt, would only look bad for him. This way, if that's the case, he can make the Government and FBI look bad as well. It would be smart politics on his part, especially if he legit thought the docs may have been planted to get him instead of an accident. 

Not sure what context I'm missing, but didn't Comey say Hillary knowingly had 100+ confidential docs out of the 33,000 on her server that she shouldn't have had, but that it wasn't a problem and so she wouldn't be charged in any way? Not sure how that can slide and get's a pass, but Trump needs to pay in this case.

As for having docs he shouldn't have, if the Government somehow allowed him to have them, that's not Trumps fault. Somebody else obviously didn't do their job then. Now if they brought it to his attention and asked for it back, he should give it back in a reasonable amount of time. This is Trump though, so I could see him dragging it out on purpose to get some payback from his point of view, or to use it politically later. Trump likes to point out problems with the Government and make an example of it.

As for your point about Trump having no choice but to release the warrant, why did you say earlier here that there was a big chance he wouldn't?

Machiavellian said:

The truly fun part about this whole thing is the push for Trump to release the search warrant since he is making all these claims. I wonder if he will do it but there is a big chance he will not since he is already campaigning for donations on this so leaving people in the dark would be the best situation.

I automatically assumed since Trump very quickly released the "perfect phone call" to Ukraine, that he would release the warrant, but that's just me.



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ConservagameR said:

A bunch of my thought there was based on what you two said in the prior post.

If Trump didn't ask for anything he couldn't have, and some stuff got packed in accidentally, then it makes sense from a certain perspective that he wouldn't bring it up if he found docs later, because it would almost certainly make the news that Trump had stuff he wasn't supposed to. The fact it was all on him at that point, sketchy while seemingly confessing guilt, would only look bad for him. This way, if that's the case, he can make the Government and FBI look bad as well. It would be smart politics on his part, especially if he legit thought the docs may have been planted to get him instead of an accident. 

This line of reason does not fly and here is why. Its not like the NARA was guessing he had these items, they absolutely knew he had those items because you cannot just take any government document without strict tracking on who had it how long, who can view it and when it was returned.  In other words, Trump administration checked out these documents and during an audit which the government always does on confidential, secrete and top secrete documents they saw that these documents were still in Trump possession.  You cannot make claims that he did not know because its his job to know.  You cannot also make the claim that someone requested these documents under Trump name, did not return the documents and absolve Trump from responsibility.  None of what you state here makes any difference, because when he returned the first 15 boxes he could have returned them all.  He had another chance to return the rest of the documents when he was subpoena and he did not.  

Not sure what context I'm missing, but didn't Comey say Hillary knowingly had 100+ confidential docs out of the 33,000 on her server that she shouldn't have had, but that it wasn't a problem and so she wouldn't be charged in any way? Not sure how that can slide and get's a pass, but Trump needs to pay in this case.

Lets not go into the what about situation because Comey was fired and this is a totally different director hired by Trump who stated that his record was impeccable.  What about ism does not work in this situation because you have a new boss so we have to go on what he does.  You forget yourself that Trump signed a bill to up the offence for mishandling confidential documents. So the rules for Hillary does not work today.

As for having docs he shouldn't have, if the Government somehow allowed him to have them, that's not Trumps fault. Somebody else obviously didn't do their job then. Now if they brought it to his attention and asked for it back, he should give it back in a reasonable amount of time. This is Trump though, so I could see him dragging it out on purpose to get some payback from his point of view, or to use it politically later. Trump likes to point out problems with the Government and make an example of it.

How can the government allow him to have the documents when they have asked him and subpoena him for 18 months to give the documents back.  This line of reasoning just boggles my mind.  For 18 months they have told him to give back those documents how long do you believe they should have waited again.  The thing is him dragging it out as a private citizen is what got us here and what could potentially have him serving time.  IF you believe playing this type of game was payback then it look like it backfired.  He did not point out a problem, instead he put himself in legal risk, embarrassed the President office and could be the first president convicted and sent to jail.  Now talk about playing stupid games.

As for your point about Trump having no choice but to release the warrant, why did you say earlier here that there was a big chance he wouldn't?

Machiavellian said:

The truly fun part about this whole thing is the push for Trump to release the search warrant since he is making all these claims. I wonder if he will do it but there is a big chance he will not since he is already campaigning for donations on this so leaving people in the dark would be the best situation.

I automatically assumed since Trump very quickly released the "perfect phone call" to Ukraine, that he would release the warrant, but that's just me.

I made that statement before Garland put in a court order to release the search warrant.  Context is king here.  I was talking about Trump himself releasing the search warrant not waiting for Garland to pull his string.  There was absolutely nothing preventing Trump from releasing the search warrant at anytime himself.  The court order is only for the DOJ to release it. Trump made a lot of claims and then switched gears real quick once the search warrant was release.  First claiming it was a raid, that it was illegal, to next planting evidence to stating he declassified everything found you name it. Personally I would suggest to stop assuming and follow the complete time line of this situation before throwing out a bunch of stuff hoping something sticks.



ConservagameR said:
Machiavellian said:

Well of course he did not do it alone, that is why there is an investigation.  The FBI gave him all the courtesy they would not give a regular citizen to hand over those documents.  The FBI does not get involved until some one raise the issue to the FBI which was the NARA.  You know the same agency that went to the FBI once they got the first 15 boxes, found destroyed docs and missing information.  From there everything been pretty much by the book.  They subpoenaed the information missing, they sent investigators to his residents to get the information, they request video tapes of the area where the documents were stored and they got him and his lawyer to sign a letter saying he returned all the docs.

So if you take the complete timeline from the first moment the NARA said turn over our stuff to a couple weeks ago, they gave Trump ever bit of a chance to do the right thing and he told them to go F themselves.  Now as usual his actions will cause all kinds of BS but the people that support him seems to never actually question why did it even have to get to this point if he just gave up those documents.

I am sure by the end of this BS there will be multiple charges filed, who knows if one of them is Trump but one thing you cannot question is that he and he alone got us here.

the-pi-guy said:

This is a question that I feel like is either good or really bad depending on what assumptions are made, vs what the reality is.

Like depending on your assumptions on what kind of access the president actually would have to these documents, as well as what level of oversight those documents have, as well as how much was actually packed.For example, the president probably didn't pack his own things. 

How much oversight did he need for those documents? Maybe he has full access to a library of these documents and can just take whatever he wants, because he's the president. Or does he have to ask people for those documents, and do those people keep records of what documents that the president has asked for? And how do they keep track of what documents were returned?

If his people packed like 500 boxes, and like 15 of them apparently had classified information. And if there wasn't any real record keeping going on, then there's no need for ninja-like feats. There's nothing even to question there. It could be like if you accidentally took 2 boxes of someone else's books, when you moved last time.

I find a lot of conspiracies start up this way. People don't know how something works, so they start poking holes in a scenario where are none.

If nobody keeps track of the docs being taken, that doesn't seem like it would be Trumps fault, and would be really really scary in general.

If somebody packed up docs that shouldn't have been, that doesn't seem like it would be Trumps fault, unless he has to document everything later.

Now if he took the docs and shouldn't, or knows they're somewhere in a box, and won't give them back, but legally has to, then sure, that's a problem.

Yet if the Government didn't keep any track and Trump hadn't gone through everything yet to find these docs, then I don't see how that's his fault.

Since Trump quickly agreed to the warrant release, they should now produce the affidavit so everyone knows more about the core reasons why.

Well if they don't charge Trump, or if they carelessly do and it doesn't stick, it's sure going to lead to some heavy conspiracy theories trending.

The responsibility to handle these documents falls onto those who are in possession of the documents, which would be Trump and his appointees. The Trump administration was notorious for their handling of classified information (and documents in general), and Trump also notoriously liked to be surrounded by "Yes Men". These two factors likely led to a lot of rules regarding document handling being abandoned due to the leadership of Trump.

As such, it seems somewhat absurd to claim that he shouldn't be held to any degree of fault, when he created the circumstances which caused this massive failure.

Even still, those in possession of classified documents are responsible for those documents. The President shouldn't need to be babysat by someone constantly swatting his hand when he unknowingly tries to break the law. Whether or not there are checks and balances in place, there is no reason here to take the responsibility or culpability out of Trump's hands. It was his responsibility to handle those documents in a certain way. He seemingly failed to do so. Extreme carelessness with classified documents isn't an excuse for mishandling, but it very much should disqualify him from holding further office.

As for the affidavit, it should be released when the investigation is completed and charging decisions are made. If releasing it could harm the investigation, such as providing information on the witness who pointed to these sensitive documents, it should be clear why this would not be released. Conspiracy theories will happen no matter what, and it should be the responsibility of the Republicans screaming foul play with no evidence indicating foul play and those who are blindly believing it to cease from such reckless behavior, not the responsibility of the FBI to damage their investigation to attempt to placate those acting in bad faith (especially because the thing about conspiracy theories is when they are proven wrong, they tend to keep digging rather than admit fault).



Biden moved the needle on health, drug costs, the tax system.. this is an important day for a fairer more compassionate US, a good day for the US people :) 

The look he gave Manchin :).. Bernie wasn't in the signing line up, probably for the optics of internal Dem politics, but he did his job to start and get this into the public imagination, I'm sure he is happy today as well 

Last edited by Rab - on 17 August 2022

Hiku said:
ConservagameR said:

So Trumps carelessly messing around with highly classified top secret nuclear docs? How did he manage that?

Did he pack and move them all himself without somehow raising any concerns, like a ninja? He's only an orange belt right?

Terrible timing for Trump considering NYC started airing this nuclear PSA early in July.

Trump caught with nuclear docs, Putin on the war path to destroy the west. It's all becoming clear now.

Didn't Trump say, “I could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn’t lose voters”?

The FBI does always seem to be behind the ball aren't they? Or did they actually get ahead of it this time?

It's not confirmed if nuclear info was among the dokuments seized. And I didn't check if the source that claimed this is the same one that revealed everything else.

But presuming he had some classified info pertaining to nukes, I think it's more likely that he planned to sell it to someone who is currently developing a nuclear program, rather than something meant to directly damage USA.

But we've heard how Trump doesn't like to read intelligence briefings and has a really low attention span for that, so maybe he accidentally took nuclear info that posed a security risk.

ConservagameR said:

Not sure what context I'm missing, but didn't Comey say Hillary knowingly had 100+ confidential docs out of the 33,000 on her server that she shouldn't have had, but that it wasn't a problem and so she wouldn't be charged in any way? Not sure how that can slide and get's a pass, but Trump needs to pay in this case.

The big difference is what I'll explain under the quote below. But it's also worth noting that she wasn't hiding the fact that she stored all her emails in a private server the whole time. Nor did she move them somewhere after she left office. It was seemingly a careless boomer mistake regarding technology, and she handed over the whole server to the investigation, hence no criminal intent.

Trump however took phtysical domunents out of the white house, to somewhere he should know very well they are not allowed to be. Especially after all the commotion he made about Hillary's emails.
Physically moving them out of office is acalculated move. Why go through that effort?

ConservagameR said:

As for having docs he shouldn't have, if the Government somehow allowed him to have them, that's not Trumps fault. Somebody else obviously didn't do their job then. Now if they brought it to his attention and asked for it back, he should give it back in a reasonable amount of time. This is Trump though, so I could see him dragging it out on purpose to get some payback from his point of view, or to use it politically later. Trump likes to point out problems with the Government and make an example of it.

And here's the major difference.

Even if we assume that Trump initially somehow thought he was allowed to take them, that argument doesn't hold up any more after we found out that he was subpoenad for all documents labeled classified in June, and he only returned some of them.

He even left a statement through his lawyer that "all documents labeled classified have now been returned".

Except there were still 11 more boxes of them left.
Someone in Trump's inner circle seemingly ratted him out on this, and so the search warrant happened.

So do you see the difference now?
Even if Hillary had done the exact same thing and taken physical documents to her home, the initial presumption and conclusion for both Trump and Hillary was that there was no criminal intent.

But that changed for Trump when he didn't give back all of them when he had the chance to do so.
Now the courts, FBI and justice depeartment have to ask themselves why Trump and his lawyers lied when they assured them that all documents marked classified had been handed over.

That's why it seems like criminal intent this time around.

Trump did get a pass.
In June.

Ok so Trump get's to take docs he shouldn't be taking? The Government allows that, or would they have made a mistake?

Allowing the docs to get out, if they shouldn't have, wouldn't really be Trumps fault unless he snuck them out in that case.

Since he's said to be a complete and utter moron by some, you wouldn't assume he would know what he had or if he could have it. 

As for regardless, the Government wants the docs back, it's not possible Trump had an old man boomer moment and missed them?

Did the FBI assume this like Hillary and come back to Trump and mention they knew there were 11 more boxes and wanted all of it?

Were all the boxed docs together in the same place where it would be impossible to hand over what he did, yet miss 11?

Even if someone on the inside leaked the fact Trump still had classified boxes, does that mean Trump knew they were there?

Would this make this leaker a good trustworthy person? Could Trump assume this is a plot against him once the FBI bursts in?

Depends a lot on how much Trump did and knew himself for certain. Did Trump pack anything and go through everything once in Florida?

Did Trump have others pack and move the boxes to Florida, as well as have them moved around there for him, like for locking them down safely?

Just curious about what the known facts are as to the situation. Seems to me like a lot of assumptions being made by many yet so far.



ConservagameR said:
Hiku said:

It's not confirmed if nuclear info was among the dokuments seized. And I didn't check if the source that claimed this is the same one that revealed everything else.

But presuming he had some classified info pertaining to nukes, I think it's more likely that he planned to sell it to someone who is currently developing a nuclear program, rather than something meant to directly damage USA.

But we've heard how Trump doesn't like to read intelligence briefings and has a really low attention span for that, so maybe he accidentally took nuclear info that posed a security risk.

ConservagameR said:

Not sure what context I'm missing, but didn't Comey say Hillary knowingly had 100+ confidential docs out of the 33,000 on her server that she shouldn't have had, but that it wasn't a problem and so she wouldn't be charged in any way? Not sure how that can slide and get's a pass, but Trump needs to pay in this case.

The big difference is what I'll explain under the quote below. But it's also worth noting that she wasn't hiding the fact that she stored all her emails in a private server the whole time. Nor did she move them somewhere after she left office. It was seemingly a careless boomer mistake regarding technology, and she handed over the whole server to the investigation, hence no criminal intent.

Trump however took phtysical domunents out of the white house, to somewhere he should know very well they are not allowed to be. Especially after all the commotion he made about Hillary's emails.
Physically moving them out of office is acalculated move. Why go through that effort?

ConservagameR said:

As for having docs he shouldn't have, if the Government somehow allowed him to have them, that's not Trumps fault. Somebody else obviously didn't do their job then. Now if they brought it to his attention and asked for it back, he should give it back in a reasonable amount of time. This is Trump though, so I could see him dragging it out on purpose to get some payback from his point of view, or to use it politically later. Trump likes to point out problems with the Government and make an example of it.

And here's the major difference.

Even if we assume that Trump initially somehow thought he was allowed to take them, that argument doesn't hold up any more after we found out that he was subpoenad for all documents labeled classified in June, and he only returned some of them.

He even left a statement through his lawyer that "all documents labeled classified have now been returned".

Except there were still 11 more boxes of them left.
Someone in Trump's inner circle seemingly ratted him out on this, and so the search warrant happened.

So do you see the difference now?
Even if Hillary had done the exact same thing and taken physical documents to her home, the initial presumption and conclusion for both Trump and Hillary was that there was no criminal intent.

But that changed for Trump when he didn't give back all of them when he had the chance to do so.
Now the courts, FBI and justice depeartment have to ask themselves why Trump and his lawyers lied when they assured them that all documents marked classified had been handed over.

That's why it seems like criminal intent this time around.

Trump did get a pass.
In June.

Ok so Trump get's to take docs he shouldn't be taking? The Government allows that, or would they have made a mistake?

Allowing the docs to get out, if they shouldn't have, wouldn't really be Trumps fault unless he snuck them out in that case.

Since he's said to be a complete and utter moron by some, you wouldn't assume he would know what he had or if he could have it. 

As for regardless, the Government wants the docs back, it's not possible Trump had an old man boomer moment and missed them?

Did the FBI assume this like Hillary and come back to Trump and mention they knew there were 11 more boxes and wanted all of it?

Were all the boxed docs together in the same place where it would be impossible to hand over what he did, yet miss 11?

Even if someone on the inside leaked the fact Trump still had classified boxes, does that mean Trump knew they were there?

Would this make this leaker a good trustworthy person? Could Trump assume this is a plot against him once the FBI bursts in?

Depends a lot on how much Trump did and knew himself for certain. Did Trump pack anything and go through everything once in Florida?

Did Trump have others pack and move the boxes to Florida, as well as have them moved around there for him, like for locking them down safely?

Just curious about what the known facts are as to the situation. Seems to me like a lot of assumptions being made by many yet so far.

Trump was the head of the government at the time. I'm not sure why you think "It was the government's responsibility" is any kind of defense when the person we are talking about was the President...