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vivster said:

What kind of balance are you talking about? One side wants to save humans the other side wants to kill humans. Wanna balance that out and kill only half of the people? How about trying to save as many as possible instead? Serial killers deserve neither respect nor tolerance. If you don't stop killers they will just kill again.

The fear that the left will somehow take everything over and rule with an iron fist is completely unfounded. The left will never rule because it has to fight against human nature and the most powerful apolitical enemies in corporations. The only way to keep things "balanced" is to throw everything to the left in the hopes something will stick. Giving one inch to the right will mean losing 10 inches.

It's also harder, if not impossible, to grow cults on the side of science and facts.

Scientology is still around :p Although it only has science in the name haha.

Killing half the people is not a bad idea, as long as its the bad half ;)


It would be nice if people would focus on the problems at hand instead of on who is trying to solve them. I guess there is an advantage to a one party system, no room to squabble about left or right. Two party systems feel too much like divide and conquer. Perhaps we should have some form of anti trust laws for government, no one party can have more than 30% of the representation in government. Split up or be capped. Perhaps then people will be more confident to vote on a different party. Got to get rid of the 'first past the post' electoral system nonsense first.




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vivster said:
KLAMarine said:

One man's best choice is another man's alternative choice.

Some best choices are objectively best, but get rejected by people who don't want to be rational.

Some choices are rejected because they are best for others but not for you, and others are made to improve your lot at the expense of others. Sometimes, people vote to hurt a group because the departure of said group could be seen as beneficial to the voting group. 



I still don't understand how someone as old as biden has managed to run for and become president. America has completely lost it. Really you can't find an educated younger leader who has a chance of survival in the next few years..



SvennoJ said:
Machiavellian said:

Not sure why you came to the conclusion from my post that both sides should be equally represented.  Instead I am saying that if you are trying to reach the other side and all you do is say facts are on your side then that probably not going to cut it.  Anyone can find their own facts or find information that counter what you believe is facts.  Case in point would be COVID.  We have multiple doctors that have viewpoints all over the place concerning the virus, how to combat it and what works and what does not.  At the moment one person fact may be disproven or updated depending on new data that comes in.

Using Climate Change their are still many scientist who do not go along with the majority.  Just because its a majority doesn't mean they are all correct and their may be points being withheld that counters to their opinion whether educated or not.  Even data can be viewed in different ways if not represented by actual occurrences.  Here is a link on the Pros and Cons on the subject but the main thing to understand is that anyone can find data that supports their viewpoint.  

https://climatechange.procon.org/

If it can be disproven, it's not a fact!

Facts are, the climate is changing, the changes are causing issues and can cause bigger issues in the future.
Conclusion, we might want to do something about it instead of arguing about who causes it.

Of course you'll need some theory what causes it to do something about it. Or you can move coastal cities out of the way and start building new cities further North. Less pollution is never a bad thing though.

Same with Covid

Facts are: Covid is very contagious, can last long and is deadlier than other virulent diseases that are currently around.
Conclusion, we should get rid of it.

The rest are all correlations. Mask use, social distancing, closures have all shown to reduce the spread. Fact is, nothing is 100% effective, but it doesn't have to be. Stay below Rt1 and it will go away.

People get too hung up on the details and lose the bigger picture. In the end, what's better for the economy, wear a mask and skip a holiday or close everything down.

That is the key, what parts are actual fact and what parts are actual opinion.  Fact is the climate is changing, is it an opinion that the cause is Human output.  This is where data is used and models to prove this point but, when researching this topic you will see that both sides have their data models to prove their point.  Who's data is correct.  Most layman will not know the difference or even be able to understand the concepts and because of that each side will just pick the model that support their bias.

Take CORVID, as your example its contagious which is fact, the theory part comes into play is the Preventive methods used are they effective.  This is not fact but based on educated opinion and there is a lot of opinion on what is effective or not.  Just take the issue with mask, when CORVID was first talked about from Fauci and the CDC, they stated mask were not effective but changed that stance once more data came out about the virus.  Multiple doctors have chimed in and though the majority still state that mask are effective, there is no definitive scientific data proving it is one way or another.  This is why we get conflicting information from different doctors.  Also the issue is that you get multiple people in the medical industry chiming in on the topic which also muddies the water because most laymen will just pick the opinion that follow their bias.

Its the details that everyone will look at when basing their opinion on a subject.  The bigger picture to you may not be the big picture for them and this goes toward perspective.  



KratosLives said:

I still don't understand how someone as old as biden has managed to run for and become president. America has completely lost it. Really you can't find an educated younger leader who has a chance of survival in the next few years..

I believe its this feeling that old people have wisdom which the younger Gen doesn't.  That is pretty much why people continue to vote these old farts into public office, especially the President office.



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curl-6 said:

So the MAGA crowd are taking it well, jeez

Yikes. 



KratosLives said:

I still don't understand how someone as old as biden has managed to run for and become president. America has completely lost it. Really you can't find an educated younger leader who has a chance of survival in the next few years..

Joe Biden is 78 years old. 

Donald Trump is 74. 70 when he was voted in.

Despite this, Donald Trump sounds like a crazy person spouting about chemtrails and the rapture on the street corner while Biden just sounds like old captain america. While he's certainly old, at least he's coherent. I do not understand what this obsession is with the right pointing fingers any time a democratic leader isn't in tip top shape. Remember how hilariously stupid it was when there were actual, widespread conspiracy theories about Hillary Clinton's health? Remember how that was a big deal even on fox news and OAN? 

It's not about wrong or right, it's about right vs the left. It's kinda gross. 

Like, remember Obama's scandals? Like that time he wore an unflattering beige suit? Or how about that time he had FANCY dijon mustard and Fox news tried to rip him a new one? 

But hey, best not raise a fuss about those fucking kids in cages, eh? That's just bipartisan hackery. Nope, has NOTHING to do with human rights violations or potential war crimes. Not about the concern for...you know, the health and safety of a vilified minority, that's just the left attacking the right. That's political, not ethical. Because the Right only sees things in us vs them terms. Everything is binary and simplified. If you're not with us, you're against us. 



My Console Library:

PS5, Switch

PS4, PS3, PS2, PS1, WiiU, Wii, GCN, N64 SNES, XBO, 360

3DS, DS, GBA, Vita, PSP, Android

Top 6 this generation: 
Bloodborne, Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice, God of War, The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild, Dark Souls III, Red Dead Redemption II, Rock Band 4

Machiavellian said:
SvennoJ said:

If it can be disproven, it's not a fact!

Facts are, the climate is changing, the changes are causing issues and can cause bigger issues in the future.
Conclusion, we might want to do something about it instead of arguing about who causes it.

Of course you'll need some theory what causes it to do something about it. Or you can move coastal cities out of the way and start building new cities further North. Less pollution is never a bad thing though.

Same with Covid

Facts are: Covid is very contagious, can last long and is deadlier than other virulent diseases that are currently around.
Conclusion, we should get rid of it.

The rest are all correlations. Mask use, social distancing, closures have all shown to reduce the spread. Fact is, nothing is 100% effective, but it doesn't have to be. Stay below Rt1 and it will go away.

People get too hung up on the details and lose the bigger picture. In the end, what's better for the economy, wear a mask and skip a holiday or close everything down.

That is the key, what parts are actual fact and what parts are actual opinion.  Fact is the climate is changing, is it an opinion that the cause is Human output.  This is where data is used and models to prove this point but, when researching this topic you will see that both sides have their data models to prove their point.  Who's data is correct.  Most layman will not know the difference or even be able to understand the concepts and because of that each side will just pick the model that support their bias.

Take CORVID, as your example its contagious which is fact, the theory part comes into play is the Preventive methods used are they effective.  This is not fact but based on educated opinion and there is a lot of opinion on what is effective or not.  Just take the issue with mask, when CORVID was first talked about from Fauci and the CDC, they stated mask were not effective but changed that stance once more data came out about the virus.  Multiple doctors have chimed in and though the majority still state that mask are effective, there is no definitive scientific data proving it is one way or another.  This is why we get conflicting information from different doctors.  Also the issue is that you get multiple people in the medical industry chiming in on the topic which also muddies the water because most laymen will just pick the opinion that follow their bias.

Its the details that everyone will look at when basing their opinion on a subject.  The bigger picture to you may not be the big picture for them and this goes toward perspective.  

You genuinely don't have any clue how science works, do you? Like, you don't understand how things are researched, tested, hypothesized, and iterated upon to get the latest and most accurate readings in order to best understand the world around us. 

These things you discuss, they're not opinions. They're poor interpretations of the facts or a willing ignorance. Whether humans are or are not influencing climate change is not a matter of opinion. Your thoughts on the matter are irrelevant. We either are or we are not. Your opinion on how much influence and effect is permissible does not change the facts. This sort of belief system is exactly why we have flat earthers and antivaxxers and antimaskers and climate change deniers. Beliefs like this are doing a gross disservice to the world we live in and the people that live in it. You misconstruing data and misrepresenting facts as opinion is how we get shit like Trump in office in spite of the many horrible things he's done. 



My Console Library:

PS5, Switch

PS4, PS3, PS2, PS1, WiiU, Wii, GCN, N64 SNES, XBO, 360

3DS, DS, GBA, Vita, PSP, Android

Top 6 this generation: 
Bloodborne, Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice, God of War, The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild, Dark Souls III, Red Dead Redemption II, Rock Band 4

It's rather funny that the MAGA crowd make out that Biden is old and decrepit while Trump is some champion alpha male, when Donald's not only just four years younger but morbidly obese and talks like he has dementia.

Last edited by curl-6 - on 21 January 2021

Bet with Liquidlaser: I say PS5 and Xbox Series will sell more than 56 million combined by the end of 2023.

KratosLives said:

I still don't understand how someone as old as biden has managed to run for and become president. America has completely lost it. Really you can't find an educated younger leader who has a chance of survival in the next few years..

"None of this proves they were out to kill anyone. You have over a 100 mill trump supporters, many who feel they have been screwed over. I'm sure there are many. Hardcore supporters, yet no one has taken arms and gone to the streets guns firing. No terrorist attacks, in any of the 52 states.  Where is this fanatic outrage in the streets?? Their hero and the president , leader has called foul play and yet no riots in the streets." 

So... when people support a 74 year old man for president to the point where he is their "hero" and they are rioting solely because he "called foul play", you want to give them all gold stars for not committing acts of terrorism (debatable).

When people elect a man who is 4 years older, that's when they've completely lost it!!! XD

I know you're sad that your great awakening didn't happen, but you're embarrassing yourself here. 

Edit: Closer to 3 1/2 years actually.

Last edited by JWeinCom - on 21 January 2021