Rab said:
sundin13 said:
There is a big difference between what you just said and what she said in that video. I think the fact that you need to completely change the message from a video under the premise of "Coulda Had Bernie", in which she complains about Biden proposing policies which are good and similar to Bernie's (which are amaaazing), speaks volumes about how strong and evidence based her message really is. Reality is, if Bernie was president, he would be dealing with the exact same shit. You can't pass anything without the Senate and you simply don't have unanimous approval from all Democrats to get this stuff done, even if you can get past the filibuster (Budget reconciliation only gets you so far). It is nothing but a fantasy to think that Saint Bernard would step into office and suddenly Joe Manchin will support a progressive agenda. The only way we are going to get anything done is by going through him. Taking the strong arm route likely will do little more than lose us his seat, so yeah, we are going to have to take a step back from the progressive agenda and compromise. Welcome to the government. Change takes place in the margins until the people demand otherwise and the people gave us a split Senate, lost us seats in the House and gave us a moderate President, yet despite all that, Biden is still pushing in a remarkably progressive direction. Yes, we will have to compromise, but you are off your rocker if you think Bernie would just waltz in and pass anything close to M4A. |
"Saint Bernard".. You realise it was Bernie's work over decades and his progressive movement that included a $15 minimum wage, Green New Deal, M4A and many other progressive policies that moved the needle for Biden's future policies? Without Bernie you would not even have the sniff of those things coming into reality from Biden's Est. camp, Bernie has made progressive policies virtually impossible to ignore now, particularly with the young and upcoming voters Playing down Bernie is so Est. even now when they are finally starting to support these things, they just think they thought this up themselves, it's the sort of hypocrisy that fires people up including our lovely Kristal Ball Years of "compromise" with the Reps got the US where?.. in the shite it's in now that's where, doing the same thing expecting different results, only this time Bernie's movement has given the US a chance, not Biden, he is just hooking his wagon to Bernie's movement and enjoying the ride, as he had no policies of any merit until Bernie and others showed him what could be done Just to be clear Bernie never expected the senate to back him if he won, he made it clear in his campaign, if a senator needed convincing he was going to go to that state and personally advertise and inform each constituency of their senators "wrong" decision and in time turn the people against them in any of their upcoming elections, he wasn't BS'ing, he would do it, very Bernie |
You seem to really like arguing points I never made.
I do in fact realize the importance of Bernie's activism on our current political climate. I do not believe that Biden's plans are completely independent of Bernie, and given the fact that Biden and Bernie worked together, I doubt Biden would say anything different. Your arguing with ghosts here...
What I did say is that I disagree when people treat Bernie like the second coming and act like "if only the big bad establishment didn't steal the election we would be living in a socialist paradise". Like I said, if Bernie was president, he would be dealing with all of the same shit that Biden is. It doesn't matter what he says he wants to do, whether it is through budget reconciliation or otherwise. Comparing Bernie's hopes and dreams to the reality of Biden's presidency is always going to be a bad take, 100% of the time, and I will do my part in calling out these shit takes when I see them. Saying "Biden had no policies until Bernie" is also just idol worshipping nonsense, that contributes nothing, even if it were true. Given the fact that you seem to have no problem supporting Bernie surrogates, I feel like you are just taking a pointless jab at Biden here...
Like you yourself admitted, Bernie wouldn't have the backing of the Senate if he won, so how exactly would we be in a markedly better position at this exact point in time with him as President? Pressure Moderates into backing a progressive agenda? Oh please. It isn't some cosmic coincidence that the Dem senator from deep red WV is a moderate. He is a moderate because the people asked for a moderate.
How do we know this?
Well, Bernie already tried his hand at unseating Joe Manchin just two years ago, and what happened? Joe Manchin stomped Bernie's progressive candidate, because of course he did. "But that is just a primary", you may be thinking. "Things are different in the general when voters aren't concerned with things like electability". Okay, well luckily that same Bernie backed candidate ran again in 2020. How did things go in the general? They got abso-fucking-lutely destroyed. They lost by fourty-three points. So, okay, maybe Bernie as president puts the pressure on Joe Manchin and hurts him as a candidate. Bernie would have likely just handed the Republicans another seat in the Senate, but even still, we would have to wait until his first term was over to see that change. He's stuck with Joe Manchin for the next four years.
I will also note that you seem to think the opposite of compromise in Washington is change. I disagree. The opposite of compromise is stagnation. You may not be satisfied with the change that happens through compromise, but unless the people put us in a position where we don't have to compromise, we have to compromise. The Republicans would love if Biden spend two years holding up an uncompromising progressive agenda and getting rejected day in and day out by his own party. We'd be doing their job for them. If the people want radical change, they need to vote for it, and they very clearly did not do so this year. As such, we either need to compromise or we get nothing. That is just as true under Biden as it would be under Bernie.