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Historically most Democrat Governments lose Senate seats 2 years into their term when inevitably not enough is done for the electorate, handing back control to the Republicans.. this will happen unless....

Bernie Sanders talks about what must be done to prevent this on CNN (See at time 4.20 on video)



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People are happy the Dems won, and so am I, and with this euphoria has come a blindness to what's coming

The Est Dems are starting to show their distain for real change, and creep is starting to set in on needed policies and reforms even at this early stage, still early so there is hope, but some signs aren't good, particularly comments around these reforms with in the Est. 

Krystal Ball puts all these early observations together in an easily digestible form for your viewing pleaser/distress.. we don't want the Dems to lose to a still Trumpian Republican party

The Dems have some real long term work to do to stay in power even for a short two years, wont happen if business as usual politics prevails 

       



Rab said:

       

Man, she is insufferable. How do you tolerate this stuff? She spends so much time talking with that holier-than-thou tone while saying absolutely nothing of substance..



sundin13 said:
Rab said:

       

Man, she is insufferable. How do you tolerate this stuff? She spends so much time talking with that holier-than-thou tone while saying absolutely nothing of substance..

She always comes from a place of reason and evidence, she obviously rubs you up the wrong way personally as she may not support your views

Last edited by Rab - on 25 January 2021

Rab said:
sundin13 said:

Man, she is insufferable. How do you tolerate this stuff? She spends so much time talking with that holier-than-thou tone while saying absolutely nothing of substance..

She always comes from a place of reason and evidence, she obviously rubs you up the wrong way personally as she may not support your views   

She spent the first nine minutes of that video yelling about how Biden has no plan and then wraps up by saying that Biden actually has a plan and it is good. 

I agree with her politics. I still think she is an insufferable grifter. I wouldn't describe her as someone who comes from a perspective of "reason and evidence". I would describe her as someone who has made up their mind and does everything they can to justify that perspective even when it makes no sense.



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sundin13 said:
Rab said:

She always comes from a place of reason and evidence, she obviously rubs you up the wrong way personally as she may not support your views   

She spent the first nine minutes of that video yelling about how Biden has no plan and then wraps up by saying that Biden actually has a plan and it is good. 

I agree with her politics. I still think she is an insufferable grifter. I wouldn't describe her as someone who comes from a perspective of "reason and evidence". I would describe her as someone who has made up their mind and does everything they can to justify that perspective even when it makes no sense.

Much like everyone ever, if you like her politics, and she does use evidence to support her views, even having a right wing co-host to reflect off, which she is clear about, then the issue is really a personality thing, as she has a huge following with people that have the same political views as you.. one of the few early journos to keep highlighting the hypocrisy of the Est. Media and Dems

Don't attack the messenger, debate the message, it's off topic and distracting to attack the messenger every time, reduces the debate to a clash of personality's only

Last edited by Rab - on 25 January 2021

Rab said:
sundin13 said:

She spent the first nine minutes of that video yelling about how Biden has no plan and then wraps up by saying that Biden actually has a plan and it is good. 

I agree with her politics. I still think she is an insufferable grifter. I wouldn't describe her as someone who comes from a perspective of "reason and evidence". I would describe her as someone who has made up their mind and does everything they can to justify that perspective even when it makes no sense.

Much like everyone ever, if you like her politics, and she does use evidence to support her views, even having a right wing co-host to reflect off, which she is clear about, then the issue is really a personality thing, as she has a huge following with people that have the same political views as you.. one of the few early journos to keep highlighting the hypocrisy of the Est. Media and Dems

Don't attack the messenger, debate the message  

It isn't about her personality, it is that her message is nonsense. Like I said, she just wants to push the "Bernie is God and the Establishment Joe is Bad" narrative that DSA types like. I support progressive politics and I am happy to criticize "the establishment" when they deserve it, but criticizing Biden less than a week into his Presidency and talking about how he doesn't have a plan and celebrating Bernie's plan, and then at the end hurriedly saying "oh yeah, Biden actually has a plan which is quite good and covers a bunch of those same things as Bernie's plan, but he is still a bad incrementalist because the Senate" is a shit take. 

She always does this. She arrived at her conclusion so now evidence be damned. At some point, people demonstrate themselves to be so devoid of value that they can be written off. Your Dave Rubins, Tim Pools and Steven Crowders have been there for a while on the right. People like Krystal Ball and Jimmy Dore are carrying that mantle on the left. 



sundin13 said:
Rab said:

Much like everyone ever, if you like her politics, and she does use evidence to support her views, even having a right wing co-host to reflect off, which she is clear about, then the issue is really a personality thing, as she has a huge following with people that have the same political views as you.. one of the few early journos to keep highlighting the hypocrisy of the Est. Media and Dems

Don't attack the messenger, debate the message  

It isn't about her personality, it is that her message is nonsense. Like I said, she just wants to push the "Bernie is God and the Establishment Joe is Bad" narrative that DSA types like. I support progressive politics and I am happy to criticize "the establishment" when they deserve it, but criticizing Biden less than a week into his Presidency and talking about how he doesn't have a plan and celebrating Bernie's plan, and then at the end hurriedly saying "oh yeah, Biden actually has a plan which is quite good and covers a bunch of those same things as Bernie's plan, but he is still a bad incrementalist because the Senate" is a shit take. 

She always does this. She arrived at her conclusion so now evidence be damned. At some point, people demonstrate themselves to be so devoid of value that they can be written off. Your Dave Rubins, Tim Pools and Steven Crowders have been there for a while on the right. People like Krystal Ball and Jimmy Dore are carrying that mantle on the left. 

Ok so you don't trust her views, I do

If Biden isnt careful immediately and starts letting the Est. get a hold, progressive policies could slide, he will lose his presidency in 4 years and even the control of the senate in 2, it's a hard pill to swallow for the Est., they will deny it's an issue until it is

She just makes no bones about it.. rubs people ;)  

 



Rab said:
sundin13 said:

It isn't about her personality, it is that her message is nonsense. Like I said, she just wants to push the "Bernie is God and the Establishment Joe is Bad" narrative that DSA types like. I support progressive politics and I am happy to criticize "the establishment" when they deserve it, but criticizing Biden less than a week into his Presidency and talking about how he doesn't have a plan and celebrating Bernie's plan, and then at the end hurriedly saying "oh yeah, Biden actually has a plan which is quite good and covers a bunch of those same things as Bernie's plan, but he is still a bad incrementalist because the Senate" is a shit take. 

She always does this. She arrived at her conclusion so now evidence be damned. At some point, people demonstrate themselves to be so devoid of value that they can be written off. Your Dave Rubins, Tim Pools and Steven Crowders have been there for a while on the right. People like Krystal Ball and Jimmy Dore are carrying that mantle on the left. 

Ok so you don't trust her views, I do

If Biden isnt careful immediately and starts letting the Est. get a hold, progressive policies could slide, he will lose his presidency in 4 years and even the control of the senate in 2, it's a hard pill to swallow for the Est., they will deny it's an issue until it is

She just makes no bones about it.. rubs people ;)  

There is a big difference between what you just said and what she said in that video. I think the fact that you need to completely change the message from a video under the premise of "Coulda Had Bernie", in which she complains about Biden proposing policies which are good and similar to Bernie's (which are amaaazing), speaks volumes about how strong and evidence based her message really is.

Reality is, if Bernie was president, he would be dealing with the exact same shit. You can't pass anything without the Senate and you simply don't have unanimous approval from all Democrats to get this stuff done, even if you can get past the filibuster (Budget reconciliation only gets you so far). It is nothing but a fantasy to think that Saint Bernard would step into office and suddenly Joe Manchin will support a progressive agenda. The only way we are going to get anything done is by going through him. Taking the strong arm route likely will do little more than lose us his seat, so yeah, we are going to have to take a step back from the progressive agenda and compromise. Welcome to the government. Change takes place in the margins until the people demand otherwise and the people gave us a split Senate, lost us seats in the House and gave us a moderate President, yet despite all that, Biden is still pushing in a remarkably progressive direction. Yes, we will have to compromise, but you are off your rocker if you think Bernie would just waltz in and pass anything close to M4A. 



sundin13 said:
Rab said:

Ok so you don't trust her views, I do

If Biden isnt careful immediately and starts letting the Est. get a hold, progressive policies could slide, he will lose his presidency in 4 years and even the control of the senate in 2, it's a hard pill to swallow for the Est., they will deny it's an issue until it is

She just makes no bones about it.. rubs people ;)  

There is a big difference between what you just said and what she said in that video. I think the fact that you need to completely change the message from a video under the premise of "Coulda Had Bernie", in which she complains about Biden proposing policies which are good and similar to Bernie's (which are amaaazing), speaks volumes about how strong and evidence based her message really is.

Reality is, if Bernie was president, he would be dealing with the exact same shit. You can't pass anything without the Senate and you simply don't have unanimous approval from all Democrats to get this stuff done, even if you can get past the filibuster (Budget reconciliation only gets you so far). It is nothing but a fantasy to think that Saint Bernard would step into office and suddenly Joe Manchin will support a progressive agenda. The only way we are going to get anything done is by going through him. Taking the strong arm route likely will do little more than lose us his seat, so yeah, we are going to have to take a step back from the progressive agenda and compromise. Welcome to the government. Change takes place in the margins until the people demand otherwise and the people gave us a split Senate, lost us seats in the House and gave us a moderate President, yet despite all that, Biden is still pushing in a remarkably progressive direction. Yes, we will have to compromise, but you are off your rocker if you think Bernie would just waltz in and pass anything close to M4A. 

"Saint Bernard".. You realise it was Bernie's work over decades and his progressive movement that included a $15 minimum wage, Green New Deal, M4A and many other progressive policies that moved the needle for Biden's future policies? 

Without Bernie you would not even have the sniff of those things coming into reality from Biden's Est. camp, Bernie has made progressive policies virtually impossible to ignore now, particularly with the young and upcoming voters   

Playing down Bernie is so Est. even now when they are finally starting to support these things, they just think they thought this up themselves, it's the sort of hypocrisy that fires people up including our lovely Kristal Ball

Years of "compromise" with the Reps got the US where?.. in the shite it's in now that's where, doing the same thing expecting different results, only this time Bernie's movement has given the US a chance, not Biden, he is just hooking his wagon to Bernie's movement and enjoying the ride, as he had no policies of any merit until Bernie and others showed him what could be done 

Just to be clear Bernie never expected the senate to back him if he won, he made it clear in his campaign, if a senator needed convincing he was going to go to that state and personally advertise and inform each constituency of their senators "wrong" decision and in time turn the people against them in any of their upcoming elections, he wasn't BS'ing, he would do it, very Bernie  

Last edited by Rab - on 27 January 2021