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Yeah it is strange to see police of such a big country acting like some private militia.



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The deliberate and continued attacking of journalists by "law enforcement" has been incredible. Literal warzones have shown more discretion. This is straight up dystopian. It's almost like our leaders have been painting the fourth pillar of democracy as the enemy of the people for years now.

Last edited by TallSilhouette - on 03 June 2020

KLAMarine said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z56j06plUgs

I notice a lot of concervative have been very quiet on what Trump did with the staged photo op.  It was a very bad moment for the President I wonder how people will defend it, should be interesting to say the least.



Pemalite said:
sundin13 said:

1) For clarification, are you saying that you don't believe that calling all cops pigs or murders is just as bad as racism?

I am condemning the approach that generalizing anyone for anything is intrinsically bad and not weighing which one is worst than the other.

sundin13 said:

2) I didn't say you do condone it, but if that is what you got out of that, you seemed to have completely missed what I was saying. It isn't a question of morality. It is a question of who has the responsibility to do something about it. It is the responsibility of the system to correct these injustices which have brought us to this point.

The catalyst in this instance was the intrinsic actions of one individual.

sundin13 said:

3) I think that if you are spending your time during this crisis condemning those who are righteously angry over decades of injustice, regardless of how they choose to express that righteous anger, you are beating back the oppressed, because you are giving power to the oppressors. You are giving power to the military and the police who are stepping forward to silence these protests. You are giving power to those on the news, or in government who are reducing this righteous anger to thuggery and anarchism. You are giving power to those who benefit from the silence of the oppressed.t think you are wrong on this one.

False. I am not beating back the oppressed. I have already stated that I support the oppressed. Not once, not twice but multiple times.
Don't put words in my mouth.

sundin13 said:

While you may support the protesters in other ways, in this way and within this argument, you are benefiting the oppressors. Now, that doesn't mean that you have to support these actions, but I believe that if you truly believe in change, there are better ways to fight for it in ways that are consistent with your own personal morality, such as contributing to the charitable organizations which are helping the small businesses which have been destroyed.

I know that may sound harsh and extreme, but it is what I truly believe. I don't mean it as an indictment of your character, but a criticism of your actions. From everything I've seen from you, you seem to have your heart in the right place. I just think you are wrong on this one.

Even George Floyd's family is against the violence. It's not just me that is against it, but those who have directly been affected by this ordeal.

https://www.nationalreview.com/news/george-floyds-brother-speaks-out-against-riots-my-brother-wasnt-about-that/

And:

https://edition.cnn.com/us/live-news/george-floyd-protests-06-01-20/h_50318c1e410ea696ade2d70fc7c374fa



This seems to have gotten rather circular, so I'll just add a couple points of clarification to wrap this up:

-I am not putting words in your mouth. I am speaking about what I believe to be the effect of your actions. I made this abundantly clear in the paragraph right after you said I put words in your mouth. You can say that you support the protests one million times and that would not change my opinion on this matter, because I believe, in practice, heavy criticism of the violence within some of these protests (see below for point of clarification) benefits those who would like to see this brushed under the rug without any change. And while some of your actions or arguments may help, that does not erase the issues I have with this particular point.

-To clarify, when I am criticizing individuals such as yourself who are speaking out against the violence which has been seen at some of these protests, I mean that exclusively as a criticism of those who are on the outside looking in. Those in the community and those impacted directly by police brutality and systemic injustice have every right to shape these protests. That is what I have been saying all along. It is not my responsibility to judge. Similarly, I don't believe it is yours. If we believe in reform and support the correcting of those systemic injustices, I believe our sole responsibility is to allow those affected to speak and express themselves, and protect them as they do from further injustice. Then, if damage is done, we should help rebuild.

KLAMarine said:

2) I'm giving your proposals serious consideration. That one concerned me, among others.

Okay, so talk to me. You asked me several times for a proposal. I gave some to you and now you don't seem to want to talk about it.



Looks like cops are taking Trump's war on media message literally. Beware reporters.



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sethnintendo said:
Looks like cops are taking Trump's war on media message literally. Beware reporters.

I wish he would let others write a decent speech to try not to incite further violence cause all that biting is good for nothing.



Immersiveunreality said:
sethnintendo said:
Looks like cops are taking Trump's war on media message literally. Beware reporters.

I wish he would let others write a decent speech to try not to incite further violence cause all that biting is good for nothing.

Trump tried to stir up civil unrest and revolt against state governors he didn't like all through the pandemic. 

Well, guess what. He wanted civil unrest, he got it.



sundin13 said:
Pemalite said:

I am condemning the approach that generalizing anyone for anything is intrinsically bad and not weighing which one is worst than the other.

The catalyst in this instance was the intrinsic actions of one individual.

False. I am not beating back the oppressed. I have already stated that I support the oppressed. Not once, not twice but multiple times.
Don't put words in my mouth.

Even George Floyd's family is against the violence. It's not just me that is against it, but those who have directly been affected by this ordeal.

https://www.nationalreview.com/news/george-floyds-brother-speaks-out-against-riots-my-brother-wasnt-about-that/

And:

https://edition.cnn.com/us/live-news/george-floyd-protests-06-01-20/h_50318c1e410ea696ade2d70fc7c374fa



This seems to have gotten rather circular, so I'll just add a couple points of clarification to wrap this up:

-I am not putting words in your mouth. I am speaking about what I believe to be the effect of your actions. I made this abundantly clear in the paragraph right after you said I put words in your mouth. You can say that you support the protests one million times and that would not change my opinion on this matter, because I believe, in practice, heavy criticism of the violence within some of these protests (see below for point of clarification) benefits those who would like to see this brushed under the rug without any change. And while some of your actions or arguments may help, that does not erase the issues I have with this particular point.

-To clarify, when I am criticizing individuals such as yourself who are speaking out against the violence which has been seen at some of these protests, I mean that exclusively as a criticism of those who are on the outside looking in. Those in the community and those impacted directly by police brutality and systemic injustice have every right to shape these protests. That is what I have been saying all along. It is not my responsibility to judge. Similarly, I don't believe it is yours. If we believe in reform and support the correcting of those systemic injustices, I believe our sole responsibility is to allow those affected to speak and express themselves, and protect them as they do from further injustice. Then, if damage is done, we should help rebuild.

KLAMarine said:

2) I'm giving your proposals serious consideration. That one concerned me, among others.

Okay, so talk to me. You asked me several times for a proposal. I gave some to you and now you don't seem to want to talk about it.

Okay let's talk about it: which of your proposals do you think would have prevented George Floyd's death?



A good thread.

Last edited by tsogud - on 03 June 2020

 

KLAMarine said:
sundin13 said:

This seems to have gotten rather circular, so I'll just add a couple points of clarification to wrap this up:

-I am not putting words in your mouth. I am speaking about what I believe to be the effect of your actions. I made this abundantly clear in the paragraph right after you said I put words in your mouth. You can say that you support the protests one million times and that would not change my opinion on this matter, because I believe, in practice, heavy criticism of the violence within some of these protests (see below for point of clarification) benefits those who would like to see this brushed under the rug without any change. And while some of your actions or arguments may help, that does not erase the issues I have with this particular point.

-To clarify, when I am criticizing individuals such as yourself who are speaking out against the violence which has been seen at some of these protests, I mean that exclusively as a criticism of those who are on the outside looking in. Those in the community and those impacted directly by police brutality and systemic injustice have every right to shape these protests. That is what I have been saying all along. It is not my responsibility to judge. Similarly, I don't believe it is yours. If we believe in reform and support the correcting of those systemic injustices, I believe our sole responsibility is to allow those affected to speak and express themselves, and protect them as they do from further injustice. Then, if damage is done, we should help rebuild.

Okay, so talk to me. You asked me several times for a proposal. I gave some to you and now you don't seem to want to talk about it.

Okay let's talk about it: which of your proposals do you think would have prevented George Floyd's death?

You have already asked me that question and I've already told you why it is a bad question and then answered it anyway.