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Forums - Politics Discussion - Official 2020 US Election: Democratic Party Discussion

AngryLittleAlchemist said:
Jaicee said:

I think it can be said that Moren on the one hand and uran10 on the other form two logical poles here on this thread relative to which the rest of us exist. The former was so uniquely committed to a neoliberal political vision as to be the only of us willing to defend Michael Bloomberg at points.

I agree, Moren is a horrible person. 

Reported, shamed on server, and blocked.



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Tbf Bloomberg was good on climate change but that's probably it.



Here's how the Democratic nomination should be affected by COVID-19: Delay the votes. Here's not what to do: end the primary now and not let all states vote. I'm seeing people think Bernie should drop out and we should just hand the nomination to Joe. Even though Joe is more likely to get the nomination, it's ridiculous to end the primary now.



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PS4: 120 mil (was 100 then 130 million, then 122 million) Xbox One: 51 mil (was 50 then 55 mil)

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"Let go your earthly tether, enter the void, empty and become wind." - Guru Laghima

Do y'all think Trump will posture so much to the left as to campaign on M4A or at least a twisted version of "universal healthcare" that sounds good but really isn't?

In the past few days he has pushed for a temporary "UBI" so to speak of $1,000 and has approved a waiver that will allow the state of Florida to sign up and pay doctors and hospitals through Medicaid, giving a boost to their ability to respond to the coronavirus. He has also waived interest on student loans and has stopped foreclosures and evictions tied to the fed govt.

It's not looking so good for us if he's able to pull off this fake populism bs again.

Last edited by tsogud - on 18 March 2020

 

tsogud said:

Do y'all think Trump will posture so much to the left as to campaign on M4A or at least a twisted version of "universal healthcare" that sounds good but really isn't?

In the past few days he has pushed for a temporary "UBI" so to speak of $1,000 and has approved a waiver that will allow the state of Florida to sign up and pay doctors and hospitals through Medicaid, giving a boost to their ability to respond to the coronavirus. He has also waived interest on student loans and has stopped foreclosures and evictions tied to the fed govt.

It's not looking so good for us if he's able to pull off this fake populism bs again.

Yeah, that's republicans in a nutshell. Preach fiscal conservatism but then go on reducing taxes and increase spending, leaving behind a mess for the democrats to clean up afterwards - and then cried upon by the republicans that the budget ain't balanced and that the social programs couldn't possibly be payed for.

I seriously wish the average memory span of people would be longer than just a couple days...

Last edited by Bofferbrauer2 - on 18 March 2020

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AngryLittleAlchemist said:
Jaicee said:

I think it can be said that Moren on the one hand and uran10 on the other form two logical poles here on this thread relative to which the rest of us exist. The former was so uniquely committed to a neoliberal political vision as to be the only of us willing to defend Michael Bloomberg at points.

I agree, Moren is a horrible person. 

Aaw now! I didn't mean it that way. I don't actually think anybody here is a horrible person!

Moren's a unique person with lots of views that are his own. He's also been a good friend of mine here around the forums. Just because I don't agree with somebody on this or that (or even on a lot) doesn't mean I actually dislike them.

I don't dislike Uran10 either, much as I dis him. I think he's well-meaning! Just having a tough life.



tsogud said:

Do y'all think Trump will posture so much to the left as to campaign on M4A or at least a twisted version of "universal healthcare" that sounds good but really isn't?

In the past few days he has pushed for a temporary "UBI" so to speak of $1,000 and has approved a waiver that will allow the state of Florida to sign up and pay doctors and hospitals through Medicaid, giving a boost to their ability to respond to the coronavirus. He has also waived interest on student loans and has stopped foreclosures and evictions tied to the fed govt.

It's not looking so good for us if he's able to pull off this fake populism bs again.

Bofferbrauer2 said:

Yeah, that's republicans in a nutshell. Preach fiscal conservatism but then go on reducing taxes and increase spending, leaving behind a mess for the democrats to clean up afterwards - and then cried upon by the republicans that the budget ain't balanced and that the social programs couldn't possibly be payed for.

I seriously wish the average memory span of people would be longer than just a couple days...

It's tough to tell. Will Trump get political credit for, you know, sending people $2,000 and such in their time of greatest need or will the public ask themselves whether they're better off today than they were four years ago? I...dunno. The historical record would seem to suggest the latter. Then again, Boris Johnson won in a (technical) landslide over the UK last December in the middle of an economic downturn (albeit a far less severe one), so hey, who knows how gullible people are? It just goes to show that you've gotta remind people of how exactly our particular covid-19 crisis here in the United States got this bad in the first place.

It also helps to point out that President Trump also feels that the hotel industry needs a bailout. I wonder why that might be, and why that too seems to be an equally compelling priority for this administration.



Moren said:

Hmh. I think that you can make a distinction between "progressive", "optimist", and "populist". I think Warren can easily fit into the first two categories, while not being a populist. Maybe I can call her a progressive technocrat?

Think of Katie Porter versus Rashida Tlaib. That's the general vibe I got from Warren versus Sanders.

I agree that at least some of those distinctions exist. I mean, after all, thinking of who the president is for two seconds makes it obvious that not all populists are left wing populists by any means. Also, a progressive is somebody who believes that it is the role of society and technology to actively improve human living standards in a continuous way. Progressives in this sense can range from Marxists (who are very political and anxious to whip up the anger of the workers, generally speaking) to futurists (who are more aristocratic and believe in top-down types of social change that are led by technological inventions, not social movements). So obviously not all progressives are populists or vice versa.

At the same time, when you're drawing large crowds and boasting about the small average campaign donation size you're receiving, retweeting videos and images of Wall Street brokers and executives freaking out and crying about the prospect of you getting elected, and the main goal of your campaign is the downward redistribution of wealth, I'm just not seeing how all of that put together fails to meet the criteria of 'populist'. As in you're energizing, mobilizing the masses against the corrupt powers that be and all that.



Jaicee said:
tsogud said:

Do y'all think Trump will posture so much to the left as to campaign on M4A or at least a twisted version of "universal healthcare" that sounds good but really isn't?

In the past few days he has pushed for a temporary "UBI" so to speak of $1,000 and has approved a waiver that will allow the state of Florida to sign up and pay doctors and hospitals through Medicaid, giving a boost to their ability to respond to the coronavirus. He has also waived interest on student loans and has stopped foreclosures and evictions tied to the fed govt.

It's not looking so good for us if he's able to pull off this fake populism bs again.

Bofferbrauer2 said:

Yeah, that's republicans in a nutshell. Preach fiscal conservatism but then go on reducing taxes and increase spending, leaving behind a mess for the democrats to clean up afterwards - and then cried upon by the republicans that the budget ain't balanced and that the social programs couldn't possibly be payed for.

I seriously wish the average memory span of people would be longer than just a couple days...

It's tough to tell. Will Trump get political credit for, you know, sending people $2,000 and such in their time of greatest need or will the public ask themselves whether they're better off today than they were four years ago? I...dunno. The historical record would seem to suggest the latter. Then again, Boris Johnson won in a (technical) landslide over the UK last December in the middle of an economic downturn (albeit a far less severe one), so hey, who knows how gullible people are? It just goes to show that you've gotta remind people of how exactly our particular covid-19 crisis here in the United States got this bad in the first place.

It also helps to point out that President Trump also feels that the hotel industry needs a bailout. I wonder why that might be, and why that too seems to be an equally compelling priority for this administration.

The Situation in the UK was not comparable. Corbin made himself unelectable with his alternate Brexit proposition and his past and the Leader of the LibDems  seemingly made everything possible to get hated by everyone. Under these circumstances, I'd say that Johnson's win was actually smaller than expected, as the opposition killed itself beforehand.

Coming with UBI just before the election would be double-edged for him, as it's also easy to attack as trying to bribe the people into voting him instead of an actual policy idea.



Jaicee said:
tsogud said:

Do y'all think Trump will posture so much to the left as to campaign on M4A or at least a twisted version of "universal healthcare" that sounds good but really isn't?

In the past few days he has pushed for a temporary "UBI" so to speak of $1,000 and has approved a waiver that will allow the state of Florida to sign up and pay doctors and hospitals through Medicaid, giving a boost to their ability to respond to the coronavirus. He has also waived interest on student loans and has stopped foreclosures and evictions tied to the fed govt.

It's not looking so good for us if he's able to pull off this fake populism bs again.

Bofferbrauer2 said:

Yeah, that's republicans in a nutshell. Preach fiscal conservatism but then go on reducing taxes and increase spending, leaving behind a mess for the democrats to clean up afterwards - and then cried upon by the republicans that the budget ain't balanced and that the social programs couldn't possibly be payed for.

I seriously wish the average memory span of people would be longer than just a couple days...

It's tough to tell. Will Trump get political credit for, you know, sending people $2,000 and such in their time of greatest need or will the public ask themselves whether they're better off today than they were four years ago? I...dunno. The historical record would seem to suggest the latter. Then again, Boris Johnson won in a (technical) landslide over the UK last December in the middle of an economic downturn (albeit a far less severe one), so hey, who knows how gullible people are? It just goes to show that you've gotta remind people of how exactly our particular covid-19 crisis here in the United States got this bad in the first place.

It also helps to point out that President Trump also feels that the hotel industry needs a bailout. I wonder why that might be, and why that too seems to be an equally compelling priority for this administration.

I hope people aren't gullible enough to fall for it a second time. My anxiety has gotten to me big time because of all this shit happening. Hopefully Biden can pull himself together long enough to win the general. We progressives can work with Biden to enact some change, we can't work with Trump. A second term with him would be disastrous for the American people and the planet.