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Forums - General Discussion - Why did Jesus Christ sacrifice his self for you?

aiwass said:
CuCabeludo said:

This idea of a soul that, upon death, goes imediatly to paradise or "underworld" comes from greek/nordic/egyptian mitologies. The faith of a christian is about believing in the promisse that someday you will be resurrected from the dead and receive a new immortal body when Christ comes back. Knowing that, until this day comes, your existence will vanish and will remain extinct after you die.

If you're that easily able to have your beliefs compared to a series of mythologies, maybe it's time to take a long, hard look at your own. Why have you accepted this particular set as your own, and cast the others aside as mythology? Because you're (presumably) geographically in a place where it's a prevailing belief? If you had been born into a world and told Nordic beliefs were true, odds are everyone would be walking around praising Odin.

This is also a belief system. And anybody is free to believe in whatever they want, including believe in nothing. I believe in the christian system. I just don't agree with some belief sytems like Islam for example due to some contradictions:

According to islam:

- Jesus was a prophet of Ala;

- Had a virgin birth,

- Just a prophet, not the son of God;

- Preached Islam on earth;

- Was not crucified, but Ala ascended him to heaven to save him from that.

- Judas was crucified in his place.

A huge contradiction here, since there was no Islam before the 7th century, and according to Islam, Jesus preached the words of Ala, but no muslim existed bettwen the 1st and 7th century, only christians.

Last edited by CuCabeludo - on 27 February 2019

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CuCabeludo said:
Snoopy said:

Will he resurrect anyone that doesn't believe in him?

According to the bible:

1st resurrection -> only the faithful believers will take part, and they will not suffer the second death, but live forever.

2nd resurrection -> all others will take part, and for this one there will be a judgment, only the ones that are approved will also live forever, the ones that don't pass the judgment will receive the second death, and cease to exist.

One also has to note that the bible is not God's word. It's written by humans and therefore a interpretation of god's will and as such it can be interpreted in different ways.



Anyone who still believes there is a god out there who loves you and cares about you hasn't seen a loved one in the final stages of cancer like I just watched my mother endure and lose her life to. Her funeral is in two days, in a church, so I'll have to endure all of the praising and glorifying of an apparent loving god who ripped the life of one their supposed children as aggressively and violently as imaginable. I endured my own new personal hell watching her suffer. I cannot imagine what she endured.

There probably isn't a god out there, but if there is, he doesn't give a fuck about any life on this planet, even a little bit. No loving god would let anyone suffer like that. Ever.



potato_hamster said:
Anyone who still believes there is a god out there who loves you and cares about you hasn't seen a loved one in the final stages of cancer like I just watched my mother endure and lose her life to. Her funeral is in two days, in a church, so I'll have to endure all of the praising and glorifying of an apparent loving god who ripped the life of one their supposed children as aggressively and violently as imaginable. I endured my own new personal hell watching her suffer. I cannot imagine what she endured.

There probably isn't a god out there, but if there is, he doesn't give a fuck about any life on this planet, even a little bit. No loving god would let anyone suffer like that. Ever.

It is over now,the suffering is gone and if her energy still exists somewhere out there then she might find that the travel to the end was far more important than the end itself also part of her still lives on in memories and you.

That's how i think about people i have lost.



Faith in Jesus Christ can save you from eternal darkness. Its the will of our heavenly Father that who ever believes in his son may have eternal life



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So I could forge a brighter future for all.



craighopkins said:
Faith in Jesus Christ can save you from eternal darkness. Its the will of our heavenly Father that who ever believes in his son may have eternal life

Is it weird to anyone else that a god (any god, let alone some Omniscient, Omnibenevolent, etc., deity) would use "belief" as its criterion for reward? Where's the virtue in believing in a thing? I see a cloud, I believe in a cloud: that doesn't appear to be any kind of moral action.

Now, perhaps there's a kind of morality in refusing to believe in a thing, unless you have good reason. The basis of our criminal justice system, "innocent until proven guilty," for instance -- because honest mistakes happen, and people can reach the wrong conclusions unless they are careful (and sometimes even then).

Also there do exist people in the world who try to convince you of untrue things, for their own benefit. So I guess I understand it, if a person were trying to sell snake oil, for instance, that they would want to promote "the virtue of belief" in the face of a lack of evidence, or even contradictory evidence. That supposed virtue is precisely what "The Emperor's New Clothes" demonstrates. And yes, if Christianity is a fraud to some degree, this explains why belief/faith is regarded as virtuous; since conmen cannot prove their claims, they must denigrate the idea of "proof" and promote gullibility.

But why in the world do the faithful believe that there's anything good in faith, itself? Why do they think that there might exist some god who wants to reward it? The metaphor that some people use to describe blind (i.e. stupid) obedience, "being a sheep," is even used by Christians to describe themselves. But how is it good to be a sheep? And wouldn't a good god -- a truly good god -- want his creation to be more thoughtful and more discerning?



I would like to see some evidence that he did please. Evidence of the same type, amount, and reliability that you would expect me to use to justify claims in any other branch of life.



So that we can bitch about the world and destroy it obviously



Please excuse my (probally) poor grammar

donathos said:
craighopkins said:
Faith in Jesus Christ can save you from eternal darkness. Its the will of our heavenly Father that who ever believes in his son may have eternal life

Is it weird to anyone else that a god (any god, let alone some Omniscient, Omnibenevolent, etc., deity) would use "belief" as its criterion for reward? Where's the virtue in believing in a thing? I see a cloud, I believe in a cloud: that doesn't appear to be any kind of moral action.

Now, perhaps there's a kind of morality in refusing to believe in a thing, unless you have good reason. The basis of our criminal justice system, "innocent until proven guilty," for instance -- because honest mistakes happen, and people can reach the wrong conclusions unless they are careful (and sometimes even then).

Also there do exist people in the world who try to convince you of untrue things, for their own benefit. So I guess I understand it, if a person were trying to sell snake oil, for instance, that they would want to promote "the virtue of belief" in the face of a lack of evidence, or even contradictory evidence. That supposed virtue is precisely what "The Emperor's New Clothes" demonstrates. And yes, if Christianity is a fraud to some degree, this explains why belief/faith is regarded as virtuous; since conmen cannot prove their claims, they must denigrate the idea of "proof" and promote gullibility.

But why in the world do the faithful believe that there's anything good in faith, itself? Why do they think that there might exist some god who wants to reward it? The metaphor that some people use to describe blind (i.e. stupid) obedience, "being a sheep," is even used by Christians to describe themselves. But how is it good to be a sheep? And wouldn't a good god -- a truly good god -- want his creation to be more thoughtful and more discerning?

This could be looked at and go so many different ways, but try and look at it like this.

If there's two ultimate entities, God and Satan, which bring light and life, or darkness and death, if you're the entity who wants what's best for humanity, you're going to want them to follow you. Otherwise if you just give them free will without "The Word", they very well may be tricked into 'hell on Earth'. You don't force them to do it, but you provide them basic directions, and let them make the choice. Not everyone will follow, and just because they don't follow, doesn't mean they'll turn to darkness, but not everyone is that aware or lucky.

Why do parents teach their kids about "stranger danger"? Why are humans referred to as "children of God"? People today being labelled as "sheep"? The Lord tending to his "flock of sheep"? Coincidence?...

The Matrix has heavy ties to religion. Neo (Human/Jesus) doesn't know what to believe. He doesn't understand the Oracle (God). Morpheus (Father) explains to Neo that he shouldn't treat her like a deity, but as a guide. She even flat out lies to Neo, because he needs to live out certain experiences to truly understand certain things. He goes through some pain and hardship, but comes out stronger because of it. Why? He's going to eventually run into "Agent Smith" (Antichrist) and "The Architect" (Satan), and they want to hurt Neo and are going to try and trick Neo into doing something he shouldn't, hurting himself and others. Without the Oracle and her teachings, Neo may very well side with the Architect. Heck, he did the first 5 times the matrix ran it's course. This time, the 6th, he finally doesn't. Trinity (Spirit) helps guide Neo using his feelings, where as the Oracle helps Neo by making him think logically.

Mind you, the prophecy of the matrix isn't exactly completely true, but also isn't completely false either, and whether or not Neo and those who were 'free' actually ever left the matrix is somewhat questionable. Neo's actions and sacrifice do however lead to what's supposed to be a better matrix (we never really find out), even if it was all nonsense. If fairy tale nonsense is the best way at the moment to create better people and a better world, iteration after iteration, is it worth teaching and believing in until something better comes along, if that's even possible?

Without getting into the strict religions, churches, doctrines, etc, what's really important is the bible's teachings, and looking at it as if a wise old human being wrote it, as a guide to a decent life for yourself and everyone. That's not to say it's perfection or a must, but at the very least, if you're lost, it will help you find yourself. Nobodies going to force you into any belief, or shouldn't, since you've been given free will. You have to find your own path, on your own.

Last edited by EricHiggin - on 22 March 2020