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Forums - Politics Discussion - Sam Harris Drops Patreon - Other Creators Follow

Puppyroach on 20 December 2018
betacon said:
Puppyroach said:

Patreon cancelling accounts has nothing to do with free speech, it has to do with them delivering a service or not. Harris excersice his free speech when he spoke out about something he disagreed on, or are you claiming that he used free speech when he cancelled an account? 🙂

 

The difference between cancelling an account because of political beliefs and refusing service because of sexual orientation is that, as far as u know, the baker hadn't signed an agreement with the customer with terms of service? Also, one of those two examples is not a choice as far as we know, that is why people react harder when you discriminate because of sexual orientation.

It most certainly does, these people were removed because the platform doesn't agree with them not because they broke the terms of agreement, that is far worse than the baker case. It's out right fascism and not the pretend meaning modern liberals use, like calling anyone right wing a nazi. Just like with the baker case just go to another service they will happily feel the void that's created by that bigotry.

 

Okay cool I got it discrimination is acceptable when the left decide if it's okay or not, it's either all okay or none

But isn't that exactly the case with the baker? He refused service because of his beliefs, not because they broke some kind of agreement .Patreon at least clarifies that when you sign up, you accept their position (even though I don't agree with it). And stop using incorrect words like fascism, even I as a non-english speaker knows that is not related to this situation at all.

 

Society is never all-or-nothing, that is why we make judgements. There is a difference between discrimination based on how you were born and what opinions you have squired, but it's up to society to decide whether or not that discrimination should be treated equally or seperate. The same goes with free speech: according to your reasoning there shouldn't be any punishment if I shouted "bomb!" in a cinema, I'm just practicing my free speech? Ofcourse there are differences, what liberals often do is to actually discuss things that we accept today compared to things that we don't accept that were obviously acceptabel in the past. That doesn't mean everything changes, but we need to discuss and debate things in society and not always agree.



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Louie on 20 December 2018

I thought about commenting in this thread yesterday but didn't want to get into a fight. So I'll just say this: It's incredibly frustrating and sad to me to see how both the left and the right don't seem to give a damn about democracy in a broader sense. As long as the other side loses, who cares? In this case it's the left defending these practices by big and powerful companies - but of course if the roles were reversed (say in 2028 'radical' feminism is considered hate speech while the statements that could or could not be racist depending on your viewpoint are considered tolerable) the left would hate this and the right would defend it. There is hate and stupidity on both the far left and the far right and no side is better than the other. Unfortunately, it's almost impossible to avoid getting sucked into this war and so a lot of things that need to be improved in western societies (again, issues both the left and the right try to address) are just left unchanged. There's really a race to the extremes right now and it seems like many people are just picking a side and then blindly sticking with it, with any issue, without considering compromise.



o_O.Q on 20 December 2018
Chris Hu said:
o_O.Q said:

wow are you really trying to make the argument that you have to be born with a silver spoon to help the poor, no all that is necessary is that you devote time and effort and money if you can spare it

so its other people's responsibility and you don't care, that's my point

i know people that in their spare time they cook food and gather clothing that others do not want and they spend their time distributing these items among the needy, since their concern for the poor is sincere they get off their ass and actually commit a portion of their lives to doing something

they wouldn't have the time to spend here virtue signalling

if it was really about the poor you'd be spending the time you are here virtue signalling and the time and money you spend playing video games helping the poor

but of course on your hierarchy of values, bashing the rich, virtue signalling online and playing video games come above the poor

and the thing that is truly disturbing is that when it comes to people espousing these ideas you are typical not an aberration 

 

i'm not a fan of alex jones, never have been 

I'm pretty sure you never done anything to help the poor either so step off your soap box stop it with the pointless comments and go back to watching Alex Jones videos.

"I'm pretty sure you never done anything to help the poor either"

i actually have and its good to see that you can at least acknowledge your hypocrisy

and for the record i'm not a fan of alex jones



o_O.Q on 20 December 2018
SuaveSocialist said:
Man agrees to abide by terms of service. Proceeds to indulge his persecution complex when he is predictably punished for violating the terms of service he’d previously agreed to uphold. Some people think the rules just don’t apply to them, choosing to cry about an imaginary biased Dark Web instead of pulling thelves up by the bootstraps and taking personal responsibility.

" Proceeds to indulge his persecution complex when he is predictably punished for violating the terms of service he’d previously agreed to uphold."

uh can you state here how he broke the TOS?

i mean i'll reiterate i really don't care about the decions these companies make since they are private but i've not sen anyone posting proof that he broke the TOS



o_O.Q on 20 December 2018
betacon said:
KLAMarine said:
What did Sargon of Akkad do to get himself removed?

Nothing other than being right winged and the Pateron not wanting him to have a platform to spread his opinion.

sargon of akkad is not right wing

its very scary that anyone who is not pc and for increasing government substantially is now automatically right wing... very scary indeed



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o_O.Q on 20 December 2018
Puppyroach said:
betacon said:

It most certainly does, these people were removed because the platform doesn't agree with them not because they broke the terms of agreement, that is far worse than the baker case. It's out right fascism and not the pretend meaning modern liberals use, like calling anyone right wing a nazi. Just like with the baker case just go to another service they will happily feel the void that's created by that bigotry.

 

Okay cool I got it discrimination is acceptable when the left decide if it's okay or not, it's either all okay or none

But isn't that exactly the case with the baker? He refused service because of his beliefs, not because they broke some kind of agreement .Patreon at least clarifies that when you sign up, you accept their position (even though I don't agree with it). And stop using incorrect words like fascism, even I as a non-english speaker knows that is not related to this situation at all.

 

Society is never all-or-nothing, that is why we make judgements. There is a difference between discrimination based on how you were born and what opinions you have squired, but it's up to society to decide whether or not that discrimination should be treated equally or seperate. The same goes with free speech: according to your reasoning there shouldn't be any punishment if I shouted "bomb!" in a cinema, I'm just practicing my free speech? Ofcourse there are differences, what liberals often do is to actually discuss things that we accept today compared to things that we don't accept that were obviously acceptabel in the past. That doesn't mean everything changes, but we need to discuss and debate things in society and not always agree.

" And stop using incorrect words like fascism"

fascism is the suppression of opposition by an authority figure... how else do you define what is happening here?

 

" but we need to discuss and debate things in society and not always agree."

how is that achieved by suppressing people who we disagree with? as is happening here?



o_O.Q on 20 December 2018
SpokenTruth said:
vivster said:
“I just can’t be bothered with people who chose to treat me like this. It’s really annoying. Like, I — . You’re acting like a bunch of n*****s, just so you know. You act like white n*****s. Exactly how you describe black people acting is the impression I get dealing with the Alt Right. I’m really, I’m just not in the mood to deal with this kind of disrespect.”
“Look, you carry on, but don’t expect me to then have a debate with one of your f**gots.…Like why would I bother?…Maybe you’re just acting like a n****r, mate? Have you considered that? Do you think white people act like this? White people are meant to be polite and respectful to one another, and you guys can’t even act like white people, it’s really amazing to me.”

That is a clear breach of Patreon ToS.  What exactly is the issue here?  He agreed not to do that when he signed up and he did it anyway.

how is it a clear breach?



o_O.Q on 20 December 2018
Megiddo said:
o_O.Q said:

you don't need a computer to suvive either, so why can't we take your computer, sell it and give that money to a homeless person?

why do you have a right to possess your computer when there are others who are in need of your resources more?

As a consumer he bought the computer.

As far as I can tell with this case, nothing that Sam Harris bought is being taken away.

Patreon's legal agreement has this stipulation:

We can terminate or suspend your account at any time at our discretion. We can also cancel any pledges and remove any content or rewards at our discretion.

 

Do you see that? Patreon doesn't even need a reason to terminate an account. They have full discretion to do whatever the hell they please as it is their platform/website and they are in charge.

as expected you missed my point entirely



Errorist76 on 20 December 2018
o_O.Q said:
betacon said:

Nothing other than being right winged and the Pateron not wanting him to have a platform to spread his opinion.

sargon of akkad is not right wing

its very scary that anyone who is not pc and for increasing government substantially is now automatically right wing... very scary indeed

 

https://patreonhq.com/hate-speech-on-patreon-a9026e52c2cf

“I just can’t be bothered with people who chose to treat me like this. It’s really annoying. Like, I — . You’re acting like a bunch of n*****s, just so you know. You act like white n*****s. Exactly how you describe black people acting is the impression I get dealing with the Alt Right. I’m really, I’m just not in the mood to deal with this kind of disrespect.”
“Look, you carry on, but don’t expect me to then have a debate with one of your f**gots.…Like why would I bother?…Maybe you’re just acting like a n****r, mate? Have you considered that? Do you think white people act like this? White people are meant to be polite and respectful to one another, and you guys can’t even act like white people, it’s really amazing to me.”

 

You call that „not PC“. I call it racist. Tbh THAT‘s what is scary to me!



o_O.Q on 20 December 2018
SpokenTruth said:
o_O.Q said:

how is it a clear breach?

So you didn't read the link.  Not surprised.

I'll type it out here for you.

  • Is the creator using racial slurs or negative depictions of a protected class?

so rappers aren't allowed on patreon? why are you discriminating against black people like that?

i hope its starting to dawn on you why its not the brightest idea to support this bullshit

but i doubt it, it'll only hit you once it affects you personally, which i can guarantee you will happen eventually

Last edited by o_O.Q - on 20 December 2018