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Forums - Politics Discussion - Sam Harris Drops Patreon - Other Creators Follow

I'm definitely getting the sense that there will very soon be a huge power vacuum/market demand for platforms that allow for free speech (it already seems to be starting). Since platforms like Patreon, Twitter, and Google no longer seem to wish to provide that, the consumers will flock to others that will. If the people are not getting the services they are looking for in the market from a particular provider, they'll gravitate towards one that will. If there is none, someone out there will inevitably create one. The beauty of the free market.. I think people should definitely keep their eyes out for a platform that seems to be on a mission right now to make some waves - Gab. But who knows, the revolution could come from a totally different, as of yet unknown company out of left field.

People seem to think that Silicon Valley is infallible, but I really don't think they are. They can collapse just as quickly as they've risen up if they continue to get further out of touch with what the masses want.



 

"We hold these truths to be self-evident - all men and women created by the, go-you know.. you know the thing!" - Joe Biden

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o_O.Q said:
SuaveSocialist said:
Man agrees to abide by terms of service. Proceeds to indulge his persecution complex when he is predictably punished for violating the terms of service he’d previously agreed to uphold. Some people think the rules just don’t apply to them, choosing to cry about an imaginary biased Dark Web instead of pulling thelves up by the bootstraps and taking personal responsibility.

i've not seen anyone posting proof that he broke the TOS

You must not have seen the OP, then. Fourth paragraph in Harris states that “the company maintains that each was in violation of its terms of service” (and you are certainly free to review those terms at your own leisure).  The reason for the Gavel’s fall is on record. 



John2290 said:
After reading into the situation further, it's clear they were on the hunt to bring Sargon of god, down. I gave Patreon the benifet of the doubt once before abd win't again. Just cleared all patrons and shut it down. After Jack Conte reassured me last time in interviews I have to suspect this was not on him and a high level employee under him, whomever it was, it was a company destroying move. Patreon will not survive this as it's too unstable now for creators to rely on. A right screw up and I hate having to pull my funding, at least they get money for december and xmas. Fuck Patreon and hopefully more platforms will see the negative effect of this politically driven shite. I'm so sick of peoples lives being ruined for thinking and saying the 'wrong thing', it feels like we are verging on 1984.

He clearly violated their terms of service by repeatedly using racial slurs and generalisations. The guy is known for supporting alt-right ideas, but that wasn't the reason for his ban. It was open racism on display...whoever supports that only shows his own ideals 




 

o_O.Q said:
Errorist76 said:

 

You call that „not PC“. I call it racist. Tbh THAT‘s what is scary to me!

well i was speaking generally, not about what sargon of akkad wrote

but regardless what exactly was racist about that passage?

at this point "You act like white n*****s" its pretty clear that he's not using that word to target a racial group, so can you clarify for me where you see racism?

I wonder...why didn't you include the whole quote in your post?

 

“I just can’t be bothered with people who chose to treat me like this. It’s really annoying. Like, I — . You’re acting like a bunch of n*****s, just so you know. You act like white n*****s. Exactly how you describe black people acting is the impression I get dealing with the Alt Right. I’m really, I’m just not in the mood to deal with this kind of disrespect.”

“Look, you carry on, but don’t expect me to then have a debate with one of your f**gots.…Like why would I bother?…Maybe you’re just acting like a n****r, mate? Have you considered that? Do you think white people act like this? White people are meant to be polite and respectful to one another, and you guys can’t even act like white people."


Even regardless of the wording, and using the word ni**ers as a swear word, you honestly tell me you can't see what could be considered racist about this comment? The last sentence alone is enough for me.
Last edited by Errorist76 - on 20 December 2018

DarthMetalliCube said:
I'm definitely getting the sense that there will very soon be a huge power vacuum/market demand for platforms that allow for free speech (it already seems to be starting). Since platforms like Patreon, Twitter, and Google no longer seem to wish to provide that, the consumers will flock to others that will. If the people are not getting the services they are looking for in the market from a particular provider, they'll gravitate towards one that will. If there is none, someone out there will inevitably create one. The beauty of the free market.. I think people should definitely keep their eyes out for a platform that seems to be on a mission right now to make some waves - Gab. But who knows, the revolution could come from a totally different, as of yet unknown company out of left field.

People seem to think that Silicon Valley is infallible, but I really don't think they are. They can collapse just as quickly as they've risen up if they continue to get further out of touch with what the masses want.

I find it interesting that people think racism should be covered by free speech. It should not.

Last edited by Errorist76 - on 20 December 2018

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Errorist76 said:
DarthMetalliCube said:
I'm definitely getting the sense that there will very soon be a huge power vacuum/market demand for platforms that allow for free speech (it already seems to be starting). Since platforms like Patreon, Twitter, and Google no longer seem to wish to provide that, the consumers will flock to others that will. If the people are not getting the services they are looking for in the market from a particular provider, they'll gravitate towards one that will. If there is none, someone out there will inevitably create one. The beauty of the free market.. I think people should definitely keep their eyes out for a platform that seems to be on a mission right now to make some waves - Gab. But who knows, the revolution could come from a totally different, as of yet unknown company out of left field.

People seem to think that Silicon Valley is infallible, but I really don't think they are. They can collapse just as quickly as they've risen up if they continue to get further out of touch with what the masses want.

I find it interesting that people think racism should be covered by free speech. It should not.

I certainly don't condone racism, but if we're talking in the case of Sargon, then it sounds to me like the actual statement (while crudely and inappropriately worded) was taken out of context if you look into who he was actually criticizing, which were the ACTUAL racists. I think he was just using terms in a language those people could understand, harsh as it was. Of course there should be limits, but outside of direct threats to the safety of others, I don't see how you can start limiting speech without inevitably going down a slippery slope of totalitarianism.

Racist speech should not be encouraged, but I strongly feel that the repercussions should be organic - ie, let these people be criticized and hurt financially from fans/consumers directly by voicing their displeasure and/or refusing to provide income to these people, but I don't see why these giant corporations should act as the arbiters of speech and morality online. My solution is not a perfect one, but it's what I think is the most fair - simply let the markets decide accordingly and the voices of the people respond directly.

These companies should be there to offer a service to those who want it, nothing more, nothing less. They shouldn't act as the nanny state. It sort of sets a troubling, Authoritarian precedent from where I sit..



 

"We hold these truths to be self-evident - all men and women created by the, go-you know.. you know the thing!" - Joe Biden

DarthMetalliCube said:
Errorist76 said:

I find it interesting that people think racism should be covered by free speech. It should not.

I certainly don't condone racism, but if we're talking in the case of Sargon, then it sounds to me like the actual statement (while crudely and inappropriately worded) was taken out of context if you look into who he was actually criticizing, which were the ACTUAL racists. I think he was just using terms in a language those people could understand, harsh as it was. Of course there should be limits, but outside of direct threats to the safety of others, I don't see how you can start limiting speech without inevitably going down a slippery slope of totalitarianism.

Racist speech should not be encouraged, but I strongly feel that the repercussions should be organic - ie, let these people be criticized and hurt financially from fans/consumers directly by voicing their displeasure and/or refusing to provide income to these people, but I don't see why these giant corporations should act as the arbiters of speech and morality online. My solution is not a perfect one, but it's what I think is the most fair - simply let the markets decide accordingly and the voices of the people respond directly.

These companies should be there to offer a service to those who want it, nothing more, nothing less. They shouldn't act as the nanny state. It sort of sets a troubling, Authoritarian precedent from where I sit..

It's far from the only thing this guy has done, leading in this direction.

http://www.rightwingwatch.org/post/sargon-of-akkad-cites-white-nationalist-propaganda-reveals-his-alt-right-sympathies/

Sorry, but I don't swallow that he could meant those parts in a sarcastic or criticising way.

Those private companies have terms of service. If a user violates them knowingly, they have every right to stop supporting him.



SuaveSocialist said:
o_O.Q said:

i've not seen anyone posting proof that he broke the TOS

You must not have seen the OP, then. Fourth paragraph in Harris states that “the company maintains that each was in violation of its terms of service” (and you are certainly free to review those terms at your own leisure).  The reason for the Gavel’s fall is on record. 

lol uh harris wasn't banned he chose to close his account



Errorist76 said:
DarthMetalliCube said:
I'm definitely getting the sense that there will very soon be a huge power vacuum/market demand for platforms that allow for free speech (it already seems to be starting). Since platforms like Patreon, Twitter, and Google no longer seem to wish to provide that, the consumers will flock to others that will. If the people are not getting the services they are looking for in the market from a particular provider, they'll gravitate towards one that will. If there is none, someone out there will inevitably create one. The beauty of the free market.. I think people should definitely keep their eyes out for a platform that seems to be on a mission right now to make some waves - Gab. But who knows, the revolution could come from a totally different, as of yet unknown company out of left field.

People seem to think that Silicon Valley is infallible, but I really don't think they are. They can collapse just as quickly as they've risen up if they continue to get further out of touch with what the masses want.

I find it interesting that people think racism should be covered by free speech. It should not.

Then it is not free speech.  "Hate" speech is the only speech that needs to be protected.  Speech you agree with never needs protecting.  And now that the Left is conveniently labeling just about everything the Right says as hate speech, that word really has no meaning anymore, anyway. 

StriderKiwi said:

Sargon didn't even break terms of service. They banned him for made up reasons and for clear political bias and Patreon's CEO refused to speak to him concerning his abrupt ban, despite speaking to others (Tim Pool) about his banning, while still stating "we don't talk about other individual's accounts." Keep in mind, there are countless other pages/users, some more prolific than Sargon, on Patreon, using similar or worse language (Chap Trap House told viewers to commit suicide) without so much as a warning.

Only the most staunch, blind dems can defend Sargon's banning, regardless of your view of him and his stances. Patreon's knee-jerk reaction has cost them, and countless innocent content creators who use Patreon, revenue. Look up Styx, Tim Pool, or even non-political youtubers and such making statements of how many subs/revenue they've lost since Sargon's banning.

It was a stupid decision that hurts content creators using Patreon as a platform the most.

The Silicon Valley pseudo-religious elites need to be brought to heel, and if our government won't do it, it's up to us as consumers to vote with our wallet to bankrupt them.

I do not give a damn about what values a rich "liberal" elite pretends to have for political posturing, I purchase a service to get the service.

I swear the dem elites now have more in common with the Puritan Bible-thumpers of yore. And they wonder why Gen Z is the most conservative/Libertarian generation since the 50s...

Exactly.  The Left is getting afraid of anyone who is not Left, even if that includes those in the center or are Libertarian, spreading their message.  They created these platforms, embracing (or at least seemingly) the idea of free speech.  They got in bed with the government for legal protection on the grounds that they are unbiased, open platforms.  But, ever since they lost the last election, they have started cracking down, thinking that free speech is what helped get Trump elected.  Leaked footage from places like Google prove this to be the case.

It's why they constantly attack Pewdiepie, a more center-right guy, in the media.  Hell, Google probably would erase him from Youtube, if only it wouldn't mean a revolt by 10s of millions of users.  They already got a taste of this rebellion with their Youtube React, the most hated video on Youtube.  The media went after Gab, not because of some racist who used it, but because it was an alternative to Twitter that actually embraces free speech.  Now, they are going after Tik Tok because of your last sentence.  It's the new Vine, but filled with this new Gen Z, who is rebelling against their push for a strict PC culture.

Puppyroach said:
thismeintiel said:
Wow, people actually believe we live in a free market? Boy, that's laughable. If we lived in a free market, big companies wouldn't be able to lobby the government to make two sets of rules. One for them. And one for their competition. These big corporations are protected, and probably get certain breaks, for being an "open platform." Those same protections are not given to up and comers. And in a free market, we don't have bailouts because a company "is too big to fail." That's a Socialist idea. In a true free market, if that company couldn't cut it, either by evolving with the market or cutting spending, they would go under and another company would take their place. That is a true free market. Not one where the government meddles with you pretty much every step of the way.

@ OP

I'm pulling my support from Patreon, as well. They were just looking for any excuse to take Sargon off. So, they finally found a video from months back, on a channel that wasn't his, and only had a few thousand views, where he said that racists were the actual "niggers." The truth is, there are probably tons of people on Patreon that use that word in their videos, but I guess they are from a protected class.

No, you live in a mixed economy, just like most other countries. A completely free market works just as bad as a completely socialist system. But I don't see what that has to do with this case? Or is your argument that, because you don't have a completely free market, the government should force private entities to accept account that violates their terms?

Violate their terms?  Please.  How many people are on that site that have done or said worse in their vids?  Rucka Rucka Ali is on there and he says worse things daily.  The difference is Rucka is making edgy songs, while Sargon is spreading his own message and Patreon is worried that he may be effective in that cause.

Last edited by thismeintiel - on 20 December 2018

thismeintiel said:
Errorist76 said:

I find it interesting that people think racism should be covered by free speech. It should not.

Then it is not free speech.  "Hate" speech is the only speech that needs to be protected.  Speech you agree with never needs protecting.  And now that the Left is conveniently labeling just about everything the Right says as hate speech, that word really has no meaning anymore, anyway. 

 

No man...it's not "the left"...One just needs to be a decent human being to oppose racism, no matter what your political stance is.