By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Bethesda about Switch support and development

curl-6 said:

A good game that's old is no longer relevant because if I wanted it I would've already played it on 3DS years ago, as in fact I did with Revelations.

And 3DS is not current gen anymore as it has been succeeded.

Sure, they've released a lot of games, but when pretty much every one is ancient, irrelevant, or garbage, that's still not good support.

The comment you originally replied to was an in-depth analysis about how and why Japanese third party support for the Switch has been questionable. Yes, I focused a lot on Capcom and even gave some personal musings about some of their games, but the overarching point is about support from publishers previously mentioned in this thread. You seem to have used this opportunity to respond by just complaining about ports ................ again. I'm not interested. 

I actually agree with you that games that are very old are not automatically relevant because they're good. But it's all dependent on the platform. The standards for Switch, and honestly Nintendo consoles in general, are low. In that sense, Capcom is one of the better companies ... and honestly you're not really denying that. 

I mean for example, I can't think of a single Capcom game on Switch that's just flat out considered garbage. In fact, most of them are considered pretty good to excellent. I know that the 2nd parts of the Mega Man collections are not as highly regarded as the first parts, but they're collections ... not standalone trash. 

Ancient is understandable, I'd never say that the Neo Geo ports are "great support", but irrelevant can just be used to throw away any game you don't care about. For example, out of the games I listed, you still have Resident Evil Revelations 2, Monster Hunter Generations, and Mega Man 11. Those are all pretty recent games, but because they released on x platforms I can already see you just marking them as irrelevant. They aren't the most irrelevant games ... on platforms with better support. On Switch? They're some of the most relevant third parties you have. That's a slippery slope, but the thing is, as mediocre as Switch's third party support is overall .. it's just ... mediocre. Not awful. It's not like Capcom is just a prettier piece of garbage on top of piles of crap. They've all around given a lot of great games on the platform. Some of them are old, some of them are ancient, some of them are new, pretty much all of them are great. 

Last edited by AngryLittleAlchemist - on 05 November 2018

Around the Network
AngryLittleAlchemist said:
curl-6 said:

A good game that's old is no longer relevant because if I wanted it I would've already played it on 3DS years ago, as in fact I did with Revelations.

And 3DS is not current gen anymore as it has been succeeded.

Sure, they've released a lot of games, but when pretty much every one is ancient, irrelevant, or garbage, that's still not good support.

The comment you originally replied to was an in-depth analysis about how and why Japanese third party support for the Switch has been questionable. Yes, I focused a lot on Capcom and even gave some personal musings about some of their games, but the overarching point is about support from publishers previously mentioned in this thread. You seem to have used this opportunity to respond by just complaining about ports ................ again. I'm not interested. 

I actually agree with you that games that are very old are not automatically relevant because they're good. But it's all dependent on the platform. The standards for Switch, and honestly Nintendo consoles in general, are low. In that sense, Capcom is one of the better companies ... and honestly you're not really denying that. 

I mean for example, I can't think of a single Capcom game on Switch that's just flat out considered garbage. In fact, most of them are considered pretty good to excellent. I know that the 2nd parts of the Mega Man collections are not as highly regarded as the first parts, but they're collections ... not standalone trash. 

Ancient is understandable, I'd never say that the Neo Geo ports are "great support", but irrelevant can just be used to throw away any game you don't care about. For example, out of the games I listed, you still have Resident Evil Revelations 2, Monster Hunter Generations, and Mega Man 11. Those are all pretty recent games, but because they released on x platforms I can already see you just marking them as irrelevant. They aren't the most irrelevant games ... on platforms with better support. On Switch? They're some of the most relevant third parties you have. That's a slippery slope, but the thing is, as mediocre as Switch's third party support is overall .. it's just ... mediocre. Not awful. It's not like Capcom is just a prettier piece of garbage on top of piles of crap. They've all around given a lot of great games on the platform. Some of them are old, some of them are ancient, some of them are new, pretty much all of them are great. 

None of those are high quality games worth buying though. Considering stuff like MH Generations Ultimate and Megaman 11 "good support" is an obscenely low bar. They're budget B-tier filler at best.



Bet with Liquidlaser: I say PS5 and Xbox Series will sell more than 56 million combined by the end of 2023.

curl-6 said: 

None of those are high quality games worth buying though. Considering stuff like MH Generations Ultimate and Megaman 11 "good support" is an obscenely low bar. They're budget B-tier filler at best.

According to who? At least for Monster Hunter and Megaman, they have been reviewed well by critics, they are good games, really good even.



ARamdomGamer said:

curl-6 said: 

None of those are high quality games worth buying though. Considering stuff like MH Generations Ultimate and Megaman 11 "good support" is an obscenely low bar. They're budget B-tier filler at best.

According to who? At least for Monster Hunter and Megaman, they have been reviewed well by critics, they are good games, really good even.

Since game quality is inherently a matter of personal opinion, I'm talking about mine. Critics are too forgiving, they constantly shower lazy games with praise.



Bet with Liquidlaser: I say PS5 and Xbox Series will sell more than 56 million combined by the end of 2023.

curl-6 said:
AngryLittleAlchemist said:

The comment you originally replied to was an in-depth analysis about how and why Japanese third party support for the Switch has been questionable. Yes, I focused a lot on Capcom and even gave some personal musings about some of their games, but the overarching point is about support from publishers previously mentioned in this thread. You seem to have used this opportunity to respond by just complaining about ports ................ again. I'm not interested. 

I actually agree with you that games that are very old are not automatically relevant because they're good. But it's all dependent on the platform. The standards for Switch, and honestly Nintendo consoles in general, are low. In that sense, Capcom is one of the better companies ... and honestly you're not really denying that. 

I mean for example, I can't think of a single Capcom game on Switch that's just flat out considered garbage. In fact, most of them are considered pretty good to excellent. I know that the 2nd parts of the Mega Man collections are not as highly regarded as the first parts, but they're collections ... not standalone trash. 

Ancient is understandable, I'd never say that the Neo Geo ports are "great support", but irrelevant can just be used to throw away any game you don't care about. For example, out of the games I listed, you still have Resident Evil Revelations 2, Monster Hunter Generations, and Mega Man 11. Those are all pretty recent games, but because they released on x platforms I can already see you just marking them as irrelevant. They aren't the most irrelevant games ... on platforms with better support. On Switch? They're some of the most relevant third parties you have. That's a slippery slope, but the thing is, as mediocre as Switch's third party support is overall .. it's just ... mediocre. Not awful. It's not like Capcom is just a prettier piece of garbage on top of piles of crap. They've all around given a lot of great games on the platform. Some of them are old, some of them are ancient, some of them are new, pretty much all of them are great. 

None of those are high quality games worth buying though. Considering stuff like MH Generations Ultimate and Megaman 11 "good support" is an obscenely low bar. They're budget B-tier filler at best.

See this is the odd thing. I sprinkled my opinion all over my comment about Japanese support, yet it still had arguments to back up my point. You don't really have any arguments other than just stating your opinion.  It's fine if you think their support is bad, but personally I thought we were supposed to have ... you know ... a discussion, a back and forth. Not just restating your opinion like it's a checkmate-point itself. 

I think Okami HD and Monster Hunter are some of the best games on the platform, and while I do not currently have Resident Evil or Mega Man they are on the top of my wishlist. That's not an argument in and of itself, but if we're just going to state our opinions with no connection to a point, there's mine personally. 



Around the Network
AngryLittleAlchemist said:
curl-6 said:

None of those are high quality games worth buying though. Considering stuff like MH Generations Ultimate and Megaman 11 "good support" is an obscenely low bar. They're budget B-tier filler at best.

See this is the odd thing. I sprinkled my opinion all over my comment about Japanese support, yet it still had arguments to back up my point. You don't really have any arguments other than just stating your opinion.  It's fine if you think their support is bad, but personally I thought we were supposed to have ... you know ... a discussion, a back and forth. Not just restating your opinion like it's a checkmate-point itself. 

I think Okami HD and Monster Hunter are some of the best games on the platform, and while I do not currently have Resident Evil or Mega Man they are on the top of my wishlist. That's not an argument in and of itself, but if we're just going to state our opinions with no connection to a point, there's mine personally. 

Discussing the circumstances would simply lead to a drawn out debate I'm not interested in. All that ultimately matters is the end result. Whether the circumstances make the situation understandable is just another matter of opinion. You may not care what I think, and that's fine, you don't have to, but I am going to continue to call out bad practices and piss poor support when I see it.



Bet with Liquidlaser: I say PS5 and Xbox Series will sell more than 56 million combined by the end of 2023.

curl-6 said:
AngryLittleAlchemist said:

See this is the odd thing. I sprinkled my opinion all over my comment about Japanese support, yet it still had arguments to back up my point. You don't really have any arguments other than just stating your opinion.  It's fine if you think their support is bad, but personally I thought we were supposed to have ... you know ... a discussion, a back and forth. Not just restating your opinion like it's a checkmate-point itself. 

I think Okami HD and Monster Hunter are some of the best games on the platform, and while I do not currently have Resident Evil or Mega Man they are on the top of my wishlist. That's not an argument in and of itself, but if we're just going to state our opinions with no connection to a point, there's mine personally. 

 All that ultimately matters is the end result. Whether the circumstances make the situation understandable is just another matter of opinion. You may not care what I think, and that's fine, you don't have to, 

"Discussing the circumstances would simply lead to a drawn out debate I'm not interested in."

Ok ... then why even reply to a comment that wasn't directed to you and that was extremely detailed where the overarching point wasn't even responded to in your reply?  

"but I am going to continue to call out bad practices and piss poor support when I see it."

I mean ... I've called out some of Capcom's bad practices on Switch. Put simply, they're as big as deal as you make them though. Especially when you consider the micro-transaction infestation that plagues consoles with big third party support, worrying about whether a game needs to be partially upset is so minor. 

You didn't call out piss poor support, you just listed a bunch of personal qualifiers (most of which I even can accept and agree with to an extent), and then didn't respond when I showed that there was at least 3 games that fit your qualifiers. You've yet to show me a huge list of publishers that are better than Capcom, and since you aren't interested in the original point about Japanese publishers as a whole ... I'm left wondering what was even the point. Again, for like the 3rd time, you haven't listed publishers who are significantly better, and given that you can't refute that Capcom is one of the only AAA publishers who's putting out a decent amount of high quality content, your point is meaningless. 

You're acting like the Switch is the PS4. It isn't. There isn't a huge list of eager big-name publishers jumping up and down to get in line. And in that sense, Bethesda, Ubisoft, Capcom, and a few others are among the better supporters of the system. 



AngryLittleAlchemist said:
curl-6 said:

 All that ultimately matters is the end result. Whether the circumstances make the situation understandable is just another matter of opinion. You may not care what I think, and that's fine, you don't have to, 

"Discussing the circumstances would simply lead to a drawn out debate I'm not interested in."

Ok ... then why even reply to a comment that wasn't directed to you and that was extremely detailed where the overarching point wasn't even responded to in your reply?  

"but I am going to continue to call out bad practices and piss poor support when I see it."

I mean ... I've called out some of Capcom's bad practices on Switch. Put simply, they're as big as deal as you make them though. Especially when you consider the micro-transaction infestation that plagues consoles with big third party support, worrying about whether a game needs to be partially upset is so minor. 

You didn't call out piss poor support, you just listed a bunch of personal qualifiers (most of which I even can accept and agree with to an extent), and then didn't respond when I showed that there was at least 3 games that fit your qualifiers. You've yet to show me a huge list of publishers that are better than Capcom, and since you aren't interested in the original point about Japanese publishers as a whole ... I'm left wondering what was even the point. Again, for like the 3rd time, you haven't listed publishers who are significantly better, and given that you can't refute that Capcom is one of the only AAA publishers who's putting out a decent amount of high quality content, your point is meaningless. 

You're acting like the Switch is the PS4. It isn't. There isn't a huge list of eager big-name publishers jumping up and down to get in line. And in that sense, Bethesda, Ubisoft, Capcom, and a few others are among the better supporters of the system. 

I was simply weighing in on the topic, that's all. I shouldn't have quoted you, sorry 'bout that, it was 9am and my brain was still asleep.

Pretty much no big third party publisher is delivering truly good support at present, though Ubisoft has at least delivered the excellent Mario + Rabbids Kingdom Battle and Bethesda ports of relatively recent A-grade PS4 games.

Last edited by curl-6 - on 06 November 2018

Bet with Liquidlaser: I say PS5 and Xbox Series will sell more than 56 million combined by the end of 2023.

Drakrami said:

Switch cant even run their newest flagship game, Fallout4. What's the point? 

Point is that not every game is demanding like Fallout 4, Fallout 4 don't work best even on PS4 and espacily XB1, thats why Bethesda until now released/confirmed 5 of their AAA games for Switch.



Mbolibombo said:
routsounmanman said:
I really appreciate their honesty and attitude towards the platform. And I am still baffled that Bethesda has outdone companies like Capcom, Namco Bandai and Konami on the Switch. I mean what were they thinking?

I think Bandai Namco has been a good supporter. I wouldnt bundle them with Capcom and Konami at all.

I believe there was only 1 game announced from them in 2018 that wasnt also on the Switch (Jump Force) and that game might be a very likely candidate to make the Switch jump at some time.

 

AngryLittleAlchemist said:
routsounmanman said:

There's no reason for games that gravitate heavily towards the Japanese market not be on the Switch (Jump Force, Ni No Kuni 2, etc). They might be better than the worst (Capcom), but they still dropped the ball.

I'm sorry but I do not understand why you are labeling Capcom as a bad supporter of Switch. It is one thing to want more games. It is another to ignore the fact that a publisher is supplying some of the highest selling third party titles on the platform. Capcom's support hasn't been insignificant ... like ... at all. Resident Evil Revelations 1 and 2, Mega Man 11, Monster Hunter, Okami. 

 

I can already see the possible complaints being that they don't port triple A games over but then again neither are 99% of "better" supporters of Switch. Street Fighter V exclusive, Marvel vs Capcom flop, Monster Hunter expansive ... only game that could reasonably be put on Switch is maybe RE7. But considering how butt ugly it is and how much theyd have to downgrade the textures for space let alone hardware yeah ... not even worth it. Plus it's available in Japan.

 

Honestly to say they are worse than Konami is ridiculous ... 

 

AngryLittleAlchemist said:
routsounmanman said:

The only new game in the list is Mega Man 11, and they managed to botch it. It's ridiculous seeing an XboxOne physical version of 11 in stores and no Switch version.

Besides, I was talking about Namco Bandai being better than Capcom, not Konami.

Writing "the worst" when you are only talking about two publishers is extremely bad wording, especially when all your previous comments were talking about multiple publishers ... and basically the state of support from an entire country. It hardly even makes sense anyways since you weren't making a direct comparison between Namco Bandai and Capcom, you were merely listing Capcom as belonging to an alternative category ("the worst") compared to Namco Bandai. On that front, Capcom is far from one of the worst publishers on Switch ...

Capcom is one of the best publishers the Switch has. They carry a selection of titles that fit the platform well, and mean something to the Switch audience. Mega Man. Resident Evil. Okami. These are names that have weight with supporters of Nintendo's consoles. Which is probably why despite all of their games being "old" (except Mega Man 11), they've still most likely sold more software on Switch than Bethesda has, even excluding their one new game. Bethesda basically just has one super successful title on Switch. I'm not about to look a gift horse in the mouth, DOOM and Wolfenstein were successful enough to warrant some follow ups. But these aren't games that actually mean much to a large portion of the Switch fanbase - that much is clear. And isn't it ironic that the best selling Bethesda game on Switch by far is an old one which detractors were saying wouldn't sell because it's been ported time and time again, and released ages ago. Yet when we hear about why Capcom is so bad, the lack of new games is brought up as a reason? It's almost like old ports are cheaper to produce, and don't need to sell a lot to be considered a massive success. 

When I see comments like the ones that you posted earlier in this thread, I'm at a loss for words on how to describe them. I almost want to say entitled, but I complain about multi million dollar companies more than anyone and it's perfectly fine to do so. I want to say ridiculous but at the very least there is some basis for criticizing these publishers. So the best I can do is unreasonable. 

I mean ...

"And it's not just mediocre support, it's abysmal. You snooze you lose, I guess." 

Yes, Capcom being one of the only publishers to port big quality games to Switch has "abysmal" support for the system because .... the games aren't new. Ok. Maybe if this was the Playstation 4 and not the Switch that would be true. But alas ...

"There's no reason for games that gravitate heavily towards the Japanese market not be on the Switch (Jump Force, Ni No Kuni 2, etc). "

Well besides the fact that Ni No Kuni 2 probably has an exclusivity deal and that Jump Force is just graphically impressive enough to be a hard port (which wouldn't be an excuse had it released like two years ago, it's not even out yet) 

Think about it ... why is it that in these discussions the only companies that are talked about are Japanese ones? Because Japanese publishers are the only ones that are expected to do anything with Nintendo platforms. That already sets off alarm bells for the relationship that Nintendo has with third parties. The reason why Japanese publishers didn't instantly support the Switch is plain as day. You can not sell product specifically tailored to a Japanese audience and get the major sales you once could. You need to market to a global audience, and globally Switch is not the main console for gamers like it is in Japan. Of course, Playstation and Xbox's audience heavily skews towards buying third party content as well, which isn't true for Nintendo systems. Do you see the connection? The only games recently that have been able to create triple A sales while containing their popularity almost exclusively to Japan are Yokai Watch, Dragon Quest, and Monster Hunter, and Monster Hunter became wildly more successful when it ended up appealing to a western audience. Basically, asking Japanese developers to support the Switch early on/from the get go was asking to put faith in the fact that third party sales would be better, to put faith in the idea the Switch would sell well, to put faith in that if all else fails Japanese sales would carry the weight of multi-million dollar triple A products that would take a significant amount of time to port, to put faith in the idea that late ports would still sell well, to put faith in the idea that third party productions would have some kind of standing in the West ... it was incredibly risky. Honestly, they're making more money by sticking with Playstaton and overseas Xbox so hard. 

Oh ... and none of that is to mention that even the boss of Pokemon didn't think the Switch would be a success.   What were you saying? " Why on Earth would a Western company, Bethesda no less, have more faith in a Nintendo platform than a Japanese one like the aforementioned?" So much for all the "but but they're Japanese so they should have definitely been on Switch for sure! How could they not see the Switch success coming???" arguments.  Even in that same interview he says people shouldn't overestimate Switch. 

It's commendable that Bethesda had so much faith in the Switch, but honestly, most of that was probably blind ... or risk-taking on their part. They are the exception, so I have no idea why you act like they should be the rule. I somehow doubt that Japanese third party companies had the same amount of resources to throw around as Bethesda, not that they couldn't afford ports, but it would be an even bigger risk for them comparatively. Just because you can do something, doesn't mean you do it. And honestly ... it's perfectly reasonable and fair why it's taken so long for Japanese publishers to jump on board. Do I hope they improve? Yes, but that doesn't mean they're automatically atrocious because they aren't perfect. Capcom's support for Switch is fairly similar to their support for Wii and Wii U, I honestly do not understand why all the sudden people are acting like it's far worse. I have my complaints about them too though ... I just find this notion really obnoxious. These publishers are doing fine by Switch owners, they could do better, but they'll improve slowly but steadily. There are better publishers than Capcom though (Bethesda, possibly Ubisoft and Square too ... although while they made new exclusive games, both of them don't showcase their main franchises on Switch, unlike Capcom which basically has every one of their key franchises represented on the system .. which is extremely important imo). 

Also, just personally, fast paced FPS games are not what I want to play on a weak console like Switch. Okami for example also shows off the Switch similar to DOOM, but in a very different way. Whereas DOOM shows both the power and lack thereof of the Switch, Okami has a four hour plus battery life, great motion controls, and even better touch controls. It's basically the most versatile triple A game on Switch right now, and while it began as a PS2 game, it's aged beautifully. It's probably the best handheld game on Switch. 

At the top is the original conversation between me and Mbolibombo. He argued that Namco Bandai is a solid supporter of the Switch, and I replied, in turn. I think one can clearly understand that I'm comparing Namco Bandai to Capcom, while "the worst" part is me arguing that Capcom is THE worst of ALL publishers on Nintendo's platform. Then, you mistakenly understood that I was talking about Konami, thus the clarification, and even called my wording "extremely bad". Please consider not being rude next time, English is not everyone's native language.

Apparently there's a vast difference in opinion here. Calling Capcom support on the platform anything other than bad is, to use your words, ridiculous. Rom dumps, very old games, butchered by either not being on the cart, no physical versions, coming months later, even cloud versions. Meanwhile, other platforms get RE7, Street Fighter, Marvel vs Capcom, etc (note that I'm not expecting new, modern games like RE2, all the above games are within Switch's capabilities). Xbox / PS4 got MH World on the same day worldwide, and even though I'm willing to accept that it might not be possible to port to the hybrid console, we didn't even get Generations until almost a year later, full price. If you're content with being treated like that, kudos.

And are you honestly calling Okami the best game on the platform? Even if that's true, I've played this game to death already. PS2, Wii, DS (Okamiden). I know and acknowledge that a good game is always great, but when 95% of your offerings on a platform (MM11 being the exception) are generations old, something's definitely wrong.