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I hear the fascist guy got stabbed and survived.



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Can tell you that you shouldn't feel bad at all because, to begin with, the election of Bolsonaro won't have anything to do with you at least in the middle term. Furthermore, if he plans to promote his platform, he'll need the support of the legislative cameras and the population as a whole, and thus he'll need to deal with the opposition, of which you'll need to cooperate a lot in the years to come.

On top of that, think of why a lot of people decided to elect him, it's not precisely because of his political views, it's because he's the strongest alternative against the laborist parties, most of which are considered corrupt nowadays. You can fully expect people to vote for the PT again for the next term, for example, if Bolsonaro screws up, which is likely, anyway.

At the end of the day, this is just 21st century politics, everything is fine until they start making noticeable changes to your rights.



My bet with The_Liquid_Laser: I think the Switch won't surpass the PS2 as the best selling system of all time. If it does, I'll play a game of a list that The_Liquid_Laser will provide, I will have to play it for 50 hours or complete it, whatever comes first. 

Humanity has been through much, MUCH worse times...

I hear about horrible things happening all the time when I read headlines but I walk outside and everyone is just going about their day. Exercising, hanging out, playing video games. Don't let the negative get to you so much that you miss out on the positive.



Isn't the other candidate from the party which caused the biggest recession in Brazilian history and wasn't that same party centerpiece in a national and international corruption scandal? The same party which was a close ally of Chavez for the past two decades? The same party whose leader is in jail for corruption?

Last edited by Moren - on 10 October 2018

While it's true that 62% of the voters don't care about Bolsonaro's extremist views, I think it's important to note that a lot of them aren't necessarily ok with them, which is an important distinction. The economic crisis, corruption, increase in violence, these are all factors that made people sick of the PT. With this I guess I'm just trying to say of course Bolsonaro's narrative is going to be bolstered given that he's leading in the polls, but let's hope that this doesn't later reflect in a real, tangible shift to a society that tolerates violence, hate and prejudice later on. Right now, you could argue that, realistically, things are just as right as they were 4 years ago, people suddenly didn't get enamored with the guy's ideas, they're voting for him for different reasons.

As for what happened in your town, sorry to hear that, but, again, let's hope it's just something temporary. Try to put your mind on other business and stay away from political environments the most you can.



My bet with The_Liquid_Laser: I think the Switch won't surpass the PS2 as the best selling system of all time. If it does, I'll play a game of a list that The_Liquid_Laser will provide, I will have to play it for 50 hours or complete it, whatever comes first. 

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"He's racist, homophobic, sexist, highly religious,"

I could not explain that shortly, even heavily with my english, but when I read such a thing, I immediately trust the person responding to this description.
I am french, so I am vaccinated against this kind of description. These are exactly the adjective that we use to discredite someone. You just forgot "antisemit" and we are complete.



mZuzek said:
morenoingrato said:

Isn't the other candidate from the party which caused the biggest recession in Brazilian history and wasn't that same party centerpiece in a national and international corruption scandal? The same party which was a close ally of Chavez for the past two decades? The same party whose leader is in jail for corruption?

Yeah, this is what everyone says... can you not see how awful it is? That we're pitting corruption vs. FASCISM and deciding the latter isn't as bad?

In any case, PT's government was mostly very good. The first few years with Lula (2002-2010) were a time of prosperity in Brazil, everything was fine and even if there were reports of corruption or whatever, it really didn't affect people's lives. Then, Dilma came, and her first mandate (2010-2014) started to become a little shaky, and the economy began to sink, for which we can also blame the World Cup. Somehow, she still got reelected in 2014 for another mandate (the opposition candidate was a highly corrupt right-wing politician, but I still think him winning would have been best for Brazil in the long run - specifically, it'd have probably stopped this from happening now), and was eventually removed from her position with the impeachment in early 2016.

Since, the government was taken over by a dude who represents pretty much nothing about their party... I don't really understand about politics to know how or why he got there, but it is what it is. Temer was about as corrupt as they get, and in the 2 and a half years he's been president, yeah, we're in a crazy recession. It started back in Dilma's government, but it's only in the last 2/3 years intensified to this point.

In any case, I don't really care. I know very little about politics. I've never been interested in this topic, and that's something you could even tell looking at my VGC posting history. But this, this is not something I can just see and then look away. I'm witnessing Brazil becoming 1930's Germany right before my eyes, and it's horrifying.

Remember, every fascist government came in times of economical crisis.

Your lack of interest in politics does not negate the underlying causes of Bolsonaro's rise in the polls. The recession was due to Dilma's and to a certain extent Lula's mismanagement, a bubble which at some point had to burst. Blaming it on Temer is ridiculous. It is as saying the 2008/2009 recession was Obama'a fault.

Didn't the unemployment in Brazil skyrocket in the past few years? And as a consequence, crime as well? Bolsonaro's sexist and homophobic remarks are inexcusable and I will not defend him for them, but perhaps it's not *only* about social issues and rather frustrated Brazilians worried about their standard of living and their families?

He might also have authoritarian dreams but Brazil is not Nazi Germany, and his margin of win will likely be in the single digits.



mZuzek said:
morenoingrato said:

Your lack of interest in politics does not negate the underlying causes of Bolsonaro's rise in the polls. The recession was due to Dilma's and to a certain extent Lula's mismanagement, a bubble which at some point had to burst. Blaming it on Temer is ridiculous. It is as saying the 2008/2009 recession was Obama'a fault.

Didn't the unemployment in Brazil skyrocket in the past few years? And as a consequence, crime as well? Bolsonaro's sexist and homophobic remarks are inexcusable and I will not defend him for them, but perhaps it's not *only* about social issues and rather frustrated Brazilians worried about their standard of living and their families?

He might also have authoritarian dreams but Brazil is not Nazi Germany, and his margin of win will likely be in the single digits.

Yes, of course. Brazil is a total mess right now, if it was fine we wouldn't be nearly electing a fascist president. But I simply can't be concerned about corruption or even unemployment right now... those things are the result of a mishandled economy, and they are a shame, but they don't violate human rights. I don't care how corrupt PT is, in fact I don't care about PT at all. What I care about is peace, and if someone's willing to threaten it, then I'm against that person. PT isn't against peace, so, end of story there.

Obviously, this debate really shouldn't be happening if people could vote decently. There were several other candidates with better proposals, without being either corrupt or extremist, but of course, those aren't the ones that get the most votes. So it is down to corruption vs. fascism.

 

Edit: might I add, even if Haddad wins the election, which would be something to celebrate quite a bit, I'm still likely going away from here, because the country will be a mess regardless. Right now it's just about trying to make it a peaceful mess rather than an openly violent one.

And here's the kicker: whereas you can't be concerned about corruption or unemployment, there are millions who do or were more severely affected by those issues. You may be 'sad' about some potential, speculative fascism based on unhelpful comparisons to Nazi Germany, but this is just people looking out for themselves and not imagining some radical absolute worst case scenario because they dislike the candidate's personality.

Come 10 years, Brazil will be the same as always and Bolsonaro will likely have been washed away by the winds of change.



o/p mentions the UK, where I live, and I pretty much guarantee that everything you've heard is BS. Swing to the right? Antisemitism institutionalised in our largest political party? Huge spike in racial crime? Sorry, just not true.

I don't know how things are in Brazil but when the views of the media are out of step with voting results they turn to scare stories to try to engage the fears of voters who sympathise with their standpoint. Of the 62% in his town who voted for this guy, how many are violent thugs and how many are just ordinary people looking for a change? The sky hasn't exactly fallen with Trump as president of the US: like him or loathe him, life goes on. Yet a lot of people acted like he'd be coming for their daughters & wives.

Follow the news less ... you’ll be happier and no more ignorant.

Last edited by Sordel - on 10 October 2018

If you're not leaving VGC you should at least consider leaving the country that tries to kill you. There are still some countries that haven't become shitholes where you could get shot at any moment. Ironically those are also the countries with the most open borders.



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