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Forums - Politics Discussion - President Trump Mocks Alleged Sexual Assault Victim

thismeintiel said:
o_O.Q said:

"Most people in the legal field, such as myself, would say that Dr. Ford has easily me that. "

simply by asserting that she was assaulted?

if i said right now that you assaulted me 10 years ago at a party would you give yourself up willingly to be sent to the gulag?

Hey, I believe this assault happened.  Welp, in this "legal field" he wishes to create, that should be good enough to disqualify him for any position for the rest of his life.  Yikes, what a weird world these people want to live in.

eva01beserk said:
Would hate to live in a world that an allegation is to be belived just based on what genitals the acuser has. Im so glad he was cleared and soon he will be nominated. Hopepefully ford and the democrats like finestein get some punishment for making false acusations.

Well, you would also have to prove beyond a doubt that she made a false accusation to actually charge her with anything.  Hard to do given the span of time and when she gives no real specifics that can be checked out.  Which was purposely done, IMO.  I'm sure they'd use the excuse of memories not always being what actually happened, especially the further out we get from the events, so she honestly thought that was what happened.  Something they conveniently disregard when actually making the accusations. 

Maybe a civil case could be filed, but I doubt Kavanaugh would go through with that.  Which is why people talking that she would be hurt more than Kavanaugh for coming out, but he was still confirmed are talking nonsense.  These women are rarely charged with anything.  And quite a few times, the victims of these attacks are either so relieved that it is over, so they just drop it and move on, or if a case is filed, it's against an establishment that punished them without a conviction because of the accusation.  Like a business or school.

I do get that ford will probably be off the hook ..but feinstein and the others that held on to this untill the final moment just to hurt him probably wont. Not saying they will go to jail or anything but their names should be brought through the mod like they did with him. Plus as soon as the investigation is on them they will throw each other under the buss inmediatly. I mean Feinstein already did when asked if she leaked the letter she inmediatly blamed ford.



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eva01beserk said:
thismeintiel said:

Hey, I believe this assault happened.  Welp, in this "legal field" he wishes to create, that should be good enough to disqualify him for any position for the rest of his life.  Yikes, what a weird world these people want to live in.

Well, you would also have to prove beyond a doubt that she made a false accusation to actually charge her with anything.  Hard to do given the span of time and when she gives no real specifics that can be checked out.  Which was purposely done, IMO.  I'm sure they'd use the excuse of memories not always being what actually happened, especially the further out we get from the events, so she honestly thought that was what happened.  Something they conveniently disregard when actually making the accusations. 

Maybe a civil case could be filed, but I doubt Kavanaugh would go through with that.  Which is why people talking that she would be hurt more than Kavanaugh for coming out, but he was still confirmed are talking nonsense.  These women are rarely charged with anything.  And quite a few times, the victims of these attacks are either so relieved that it is over, so they just drop it and move on, or if a case is filed, it's against an establishment that punished them without a conviction because of the accusation.  Like a business or school.

I do get that ford will probably be off the hook ..but feinstein and the others that held on to this untill the final moment just to hurt him probably wont. Not saying they will go to jail or anything but their names should be brought through the mod like they did with him. Plus as soon as the investigation is on them they will throw each other under the buss inmediatly. I mean Feinstein already did when asked if she leaked the letter she inmediatly blamed ford.

That would be a funny thing to watch.

You know, after thinking about it, they actually could 100% get Ford for perjury.  There are two things she blatantly lied about.  She said she was afraid to fly.  However, it was brought out that she obviously loved to fly, given how much she does it, for work and leisure.  But, she stuck to her story about not liking it.  Well, if you subpoena Facebook for her scrubbed media profile, I bet you would find posts about her loving to fly.  She also said she put on the second door to her house because of the trauma brought on by this attack.  We already know this was false.  The door was installed before she said it was put in.  And it seems it was put in because she was renting out a part of the house. 

Of course, I highly doubt they would pursue this, as they don't want to appear as "bullies."  Again, because of her sex and what side she is on, she will face no punishment.



o_O.Q said:
Zucas said:

The burden of proof in this scenario would be a preponderance of the evidence. Most people in the legal field, such as myself, would say that Dr. Ford has easily me that. 

"Most people in the legal field, such as myself, would say that Dr. Ford has easily me that. "

simply by asserting that she was assaulted?

if i said right now that you assaulted me 10 years ago at a party would you give yourself up willingly to be sent to the gulag?

Nope that wouldn't suffice. Also again you are mixing up what happens in a criminal matter and what happens in a civil matter. Seizure of a person only occurs in a criminal matter. A defendant in a civil matter is not seized, even if there is enough factual allegations to state a claim is plausible. You would just risk a default judgment against you if you don't respond.

Last edited by Zucas - on 04 October 2018

thismeintiel said:
o_O.Q said:

"Most people in the legal field, such as myself, would say that Dr. Ford has easily me that. "

simply by asserting that she was assaulted?

if i said right now that you assaulted me 10 years ago at a party would you give yourself up willingly to be sent to the gulag?

Hey, I believe this assault happened.  Welp, in this "legal field" he wishes to create, that should be good enough to disqualify him for any position for the rest of his life.  Yikes, what a weird world these people want to live in.

Also funny how he speaks about the preponderance of evidence.  What evidence?  All she has is a story.  A story no one backs.  A story she has changed several times.  If he truly is part of the legal field, he is obviously letting his political bias overshadow true justice.

eva01beserk said:
Would hate to live in a world that an allegation is to be belived just based on what genitals the acuser has. Im so glad he was cleared and soon he will be nominated. Hopepefully ford and the democrats like finestein get some punishment for making false acusations.

Well, you would also have to prove beyond a doubt that she made a false accusation to actually charge her with anything.  Hard to do given the span of time and when she gives no real specifics that can be checked out.  Which was purposely done, IMO.  I'm sure they'd use the excuse of memories not always being what actually happened, especially the further out we get from the events, so she honestly thought that was what happened.  Something they conveniently disregard when actually making the accusations. 

Maybe a civil case could be filed, but I doubt Kavanaugh would go through with that.  Which is why people talking that she would be hurt more than Kavanaugh for coming out, but he was still confirmed are talking nonsense.  These women are rarely charged with anything.  And quite a few times, the victims of these attacks are either so relieved that it is over, so they just drop it and move on, or if a case is filed, it's against an establishment that punished them without a conviction because of the accusation.  Like a business or school.

Nope again misunderstanding about criminal and civil procedure. I guess there is no reason for you to understand it unless you have been involved in the legal system itself. The scenario he setup would not be enough in a criminal or civil matter. If he did make enough factual allegations to make a plausible claim on its face, then the defendant (or me in this case I suppose) would be required to answer which can be just a wholesale denial of the plaintiff's complaint along with a move for summary judgment and enough facts to support that summary judgment. 

As to the other point, usually no civil case is filed due to the difficulty of proving a defamation case. In other countries it's not so difficult, but the First Amendment has severely limited what can be defamation. The standard is also a tad bit higher at a clear and convincing evidence standard. Judge Kavanaugh has every legal right to file it but it is doubtful he will. Some of those reasons being what you stated such as just wanting the matter to be over with. 



thismeintiel said:
eva01beserk said:

I do get that ford will probably be off the hook ..but feinstein and the others that held on to this untill the final moment just to hurt him probably wont. Not saying they will go to jail or anything but their names should be brought through the mod like they did with him. Plus as soon as the investigation is on them they will throw each other under the buss inmediatly. I mean Feinstein already did when asked if she leaked the letter she inmediatly blamed ford.

That would be a funny thing to watch.

You know, after thinking about it, they actually could 100% get Ford for perjury.  There are two things she blatantly lied about.  She said she was afraid to fly.  However, it was brought out that she obviously loved to fly, given how much she does it, for work and leisure.  But, she stuck to her story about not liking it.  Well, if you subpoena Facebook for her scrubbed media profile, I bet you would find posts about her loving to fly.  She also said she put on the second door to her house because of the trauma brought on by this attack.  We already know this was false.  The door was installed before she said it was put in.  And it seems it was put in because she was renting out a part of the house. 

Of course, I highly doubt they would pursue this, as they don't want to appear as "bullies."  Again, because of her sex and what side she is on, she will face no punishment.

That would actually be an interesting question if it was pursued. The elements of perjury, however, require specific intent to make a false statement and that it went towards something "material". Her statement about flying, would be hard to see it as material to the investigation but there is always an argument. The second statement about the door, though, might be considered material. However, I think rather than pursuing perjury, a good attorney on the other side would just use it to attack the credibility of the person who made the statement. Cross-examination is a wonderful thing! Then in closing arguments that attorney can say if they are willing to lie about something innocuous, then they might have lied about the whole thing.



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contestgamer said:
Puppyroach said:

So your argument is that if she was the victim, she should blame herself for not coming forward earlier?

My argument is that if you shouldn't be lobbing unproven, serious accusations against someone infront of the entire world - ruining their career, potentially family and life. The fact that she's coming out with this now speaks to me of a vindictiveness and malintent. The timing coupled with her going public instead of privately to authorities speaks negatively of her.

And is that your argument even if it did happen? That if she was the victim of attempted tape, she has herself to blame for not coming out earlier?



Kerotan said:
Thanks for editing the title. Let's not become a website that spreads fake news.. The key word here is alleged. Innocent until proven guilty. Btw i don't know much or even care for this situation or American politics in general. But these witch hunts before a man is convicted bug me.

Aye. I completely agree. No fake news on VGC shall be had! 



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PwerlvlAmy said:
Kerotan said:
Thanks for editing the title. Let's not become a website that spreads fake news.. The key word here is alleged. Innocent until proven guilty. Btw i don't know much or even care for this situation or American politics in general. But these witch hunts before a man is convicted bug me.

Aye. I completely agree. No fake news on VGC shall be had! 

Thanks Amy. Let's make vgchartz great again. 



Zucas said:
o_O.Q said:

"Most people in the legal field, such as myself, would say that Dr. Ford has easily me that. "

simply by asserting that she was assaulted?

if i said right now that you assaulted me 10 years ago at a party would you give yourself up willingly to be sent to the gulag?

Nope that wouldn't suffice. Also again you are mixing up what happens in a criminal matter and what happens in a civil matter. Seizure of a person only occurs in a criminal matter. A defendant in a civil matter is not seized, even if there is enough factual allegations to state a claim is plausible. You would just risk a default judgment against you if you don't respond.

" Also again you are mixing up what happens in a criminal matter and what happens in a civil matter. Seizure of a person only occurs in a criminal matter."

i was actually just joking which would have been apparent from me mentioning gulags... are gulags a part of the justice system today? 

 

but regardless you would be willing to accept people labeling you as a rapist simply from me making the assertion?




thismeintiel said:
Majin-Tenshinhan said:
Why are people bringing up Kavanaugh getting angry as a point against him? Do you seriously think any normal person would not get angry at false accusations that could ruin their entire life? I think him being angry is a perfectly natural response...

Since everything else seems to be falling apart, that's their fall back position. Of course, they know it's BS. They make excuses for SJWs the SCREEEE in public and are nothing but emotional. Or are fine when politicians on their side scream/yell damaging hyperbole and outright lies to attack their opponents. No, they are just grasping to find something. Anything. If he had been calm and collected, they would say that proves he did it or lacks the emotional depth to be on the Supreme Court. 

Snoopy said:
Majin-Tenshinhan said:
Why are people bringing up Kavanaugh getting angry as a point against him? Do you seriously think any normal person would not get angry at false accusations that could ruin their entire life? I think him being angry is a perfectly natural response...

I'm angry just thinking about it lol.

The majority of the time with the left it's a 'heads we win, tales you lose', scenario. The right in certain specific cases can be the same as well, but rarely.

If Kav would have acted more politically correct like his earlier hearings, you would have instead heard something along the lines of, 'he's so weak', 'look how laid back he is like he thinks he can get away with it', 'he's too quiet so he must be hiding something', 'he won't even fight for himself, how is he supposed to fight for justice?', etc.

If Kav get's upset, like he did, you end up hearing, 'he's too emotional', 'he's out of control', 'he's a monster', 'he's capable of anything.... but judging!', etc.

Taking this into account, it goes beyond giving Kav the benefit of the doubt. Wolves are usually pretty cool and calm and very orderly, but you throw one into an inescapable bear pit, and that wolf is going to show you a side that any and every wolf would show in that same situation. The fact he kept his cool as well as he did is the real story.

Last edited by EricHiggin - on 05 October 2018