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Forums - Politics Discussion - President Trump Mocks Alleged Sexual Assault Victim

contestgamer said:
Puppyroach said:

But that argument only holds if you are not the victim. If the person has attempted to rape you, you should ALWAYS come forward regardless of how much time has passed. It is irrelevant if the person's life in that case is destroyed since the most important thing is to investigate and see if your case can be proved. Time is irrelevant.

Like I said, in many of these cases:

1. It cant be investigated, due to statutes. So time IS relevant in those cases. If it cant be investigated, you're just lobbing accusations that cant be disproved, but do just as much damage as if it was proven.  It is unethical to come forward in such cases. Do it when it can be legally pursued, to be proven or disproved. 

2. Many of these women don't pursue an investigation. They just throw out accusations on social media or elsewhere and call it a day. The mans life is destroyed with zero proof.

1 You can still investigate, just not convict. And a victim doesn't take statue of limitations into consideration, they often times just want to put it behind them until something reminds them of what happened. Imagine this scenario: you were raped as a woman by a guy 30 years ago and the statue of limitations has passed. Now it turns out that the company at which you work is in the process of hiring the same guy that raped you 30 years ago. How do you deal with it?

 

2 I agree, many women throw out allegations in a way that actually also damage themselves and doesn't help the process. But that is a product of the society we live in, just look at how the President tweets all kinds of uncorraborated statements constantly. He too is a product of a society that doesn't teach us how to go about things resonsibly anymore. But I wouldn't count on Kavanaughs life being destroyed, he will be elected as a supreme Court judge and his friends and family won't punish him for this.



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xbebop said:
DrDoomz said:

The lack of class extends to both sides (Trump and the democratic politicans/celebs). To condemn one side, you need to also condemn the other.

Also, I don’t think Trump has ever portrayed himself as a classy guy (if he is, then you’re right, he sucks at it). I don’t think the people who voted for him did so because he was “classy” either.

The celebs though, they (IMO) like to put on airs when they’re the ones who absolutely lack class (by laughing at the misfortune of what could be an innocent man who’s getting his life/career/reputation destroyed by false accusations).

I mean, let's be honest, Kavanaugh, whether the allegations are true or not, is a total scumbag. He's an obvious shill, and his behavior up to this point is evidence of that. 

Also, the "both sides" argument doesn't work anymore. The Republicans simply don't care about morality anymore. They only care about control. It's a party made up of human scum.

Whether you think he is a shill or a scumbag, the guy does not deserve to have his reputation/life/career/family destroyed by what could be false allegations. And any group/persons that would try and destroy a man using these tactics (and the people making fun on him if these accusations were false) are far worse scum than he would ever be as a “shill”. There is no excusing that. Of course, if he is guilty, then I hope he gets prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. Til then, the celebs making fun of Kav are no better than Trump (IMO worse than).

How in the heck does the “both sides” argument not work anymore? Both sides are made up of human scum, both sides only care about control. That’s what politicans are. And in this specific moment, both sides were scummy. Trump and the democrat politicians/celebs. We need to recognize the truth of both sides if we are to stay intellectually honest.

Although, to be honest, IMO the democrats politicans are way ahead in the scum department in this very instance (as they have tried to ruin a man’s life using lies at worst and at best, betrayed the trust/wishes of a sexual harassment victim in order to use her as a political weapon).

Last edited by DrDoomz - on 05 October 2018

SpokenTruth said:
contestgamer said:

Like I said, in many of these cases:

1. It cant be investigated, due to statutes. So time IS relevant in those cases. If it cant be investigated, you're just lobbing accusations that cant be disproved, but do just as much damage as if it was proven.  It is unethical to come forward in such cases. Do it when it can be legally pursued, to be proven or disproved. 

2. Many of these women don't pursue an investigation. They just throw out accusations on social media or elsewhere and call it a day. The mans life is destroyed with zero proof.

This is twice now that I am telling you the statute of limitations for the state of Maryland do not lapse for the crimes he is being accused of.

Do not repeat this lie again.  Doing so will tell all of us that you are not interested in objectivity and truth and will knowingly perpetuate lies.

I wasnt talking about this case anymore. I was talking generally about the metoo movement. 



Puppyroach said:
contestgamer said:

Like I said, in many of these cases:

1. It cant be investigated, due to statutes. So time IS relevant in those cases. If it cant be investigated, you're just lobbing accusations that cant be disproved, but do just as much damage as if it was proven.  It is unethical to come forward in such cases. Do it when it can be legally pursued, to be proven or disproved. 

2. Many of these women don't pursue an investigation. They just throw out accusations on social media or elsewhere and call it a day. The mans life is destroyed with zero proof.

1 You can still investigate, just not convict. And a victim doesn't take statue of limitations into consideration, they often times just want to put it behind them until something reminds them of what happened. Imagine this scenario: you were raped as a woman by a guy 30 years ago and the statue of limitations has passed. Now it turns out that the company at which you work is in the process of hiring the same guy that raped you 30 years ago. How do you deal with it?

 

2 I agree, many women throw out allegations in a way that actually also damage themselves and doesn't help the process. But that is a product of the society we live in, just look at how the President tweets all kinds of uncorraborated statements constantly. He too is a product of a society that doesn't teach us how to go about things resonsibly anymore. But I wouldn't count on Kavanaughs life being destroyed, he will be elected as a supreme Court judge and his friends and family won't punish him for this.

1. No idea, I havent been in that position. There's a reason though that the law is enforced by impartial third parties. If we let the victims dish out the law we'd be living in a terrible, eye for an eye society. As such even victims have to work within the law. In your hypothetical, how does the company and its employees know that the alleged victim isnt lying? An investigation 30 years later would have no chance of proving or disproving her allegations either way. She could simply accuse this person trying to get the job of rape and ruin his chances of getting that job. You know full well that in most cases that person will NOT be hired, regardless of whether it did or did not happen. And IF that person was hired, they would likely be ostracized by their coworkers. 

We can't have a society where people skirt the law and throw out accusations outside a court setting.

2. Trump should stop tweeting. I wouldnt use Trump as a barometer of whats right and wrong, because he's clearly a terrible role model. Regarding Kavanaugh, a large segment of the country will now forever consider him a rapist. A large portion of all future generations will now consider him a rapist just based on the accusations they'll read on wikipedia and elsewhere. His reputation has been severely damaged, regardless of whether he is confirmed or not.



SpokenTruth said:
contestgamer said:

I wasnt talking about this case anymore. I was talking generally about the metoo movement. 

Over half of the states do not have a statute of limitations on rape and sexual assault.  And it's also irrelevant.  It doesn't remove the fact of action.  It only absolves criminal liability.  Not civil liability.

Maybe you should tell all these women that, because the majority of them aren't going to either criminal or civil court where their allegations can be proven or disproved. They're lobbing accusations though the media, both social and mainstream, where there is no standard of evidence. It should be considered defamation to accuse someone of assault outside of civil or criminal court. Writing accusatory letters to senators isn't part of the civil or criminal court process. 



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Hiku said:

She took the most accurate type of polygraph exam there is, according to the former FBIgent who administered it, and she passed.
Kavanaugh did not want to take a polygraph, and claimed they're not reliable even though he previously said this:



She welcomed an FBI investigation.
Kavanaugh opposed it every time he was asked.

She seemed very credible in her testimony, to the point where the GOP and Trump said so themselves. Honest about things she could and could not remember. (A liar usually tends to make up all the details.)
He obviously lied under oath several times. About the meaning of "devil's triangle", "boof, "Renate alumni", etc.
And many of his classmates, some of whom originally supported him, came out and said that he wasn't telling the truth.
Add to the fact that he had a meltdown, screaming and crying.

Yeah, who to believe? The guy who threw a tantrum, dodged tons of questions/lied under oath, didn't want to take a polygraph test and opposed an FBI investigation?
Or the person who did the opposite?

I dunno guys, this one is very tough to decide on.

Anyway, none of what Trump said is unusual for him, nor his supporters applauding and cheering.
He's the guy who made fun of a disabled man's disability. It's not news that Trump isn't a good person.
And in their defense, they are told to cheer and be enthusiastic. Though I'm sure most of them would anyway.

And to everyone who says "she should have come forward sooner", unless you are a victim of sexual assault, you should not tell them how to handle surviving sexual assault. Around 2/3 of sexual assault victims never come forward. And your comments are part of the reason why.

"She seemed very credible in her testimony, to the point where the GOP and Trump said so themselves. Honest about things she could and could not remember. (A liar usually tends to make up all the details.)

He obviously lied under oath several times."

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/fords-ex-boyfriends-sworn-statement-disputes-multiple-claims-she-made-under-oath

 

"Kavanaugh did not want to take a polygraph, and claimed they're not reliable even though he previously said this:"

when i was two i believed in santa, but as i grew older and exposed to more information i changed my views... 

 

"Around 2/3 of sexual assault victims never come forward."

if they never come forwards, first off how can you declare they are victims since there is no investigation in these cases?

secondly how can you have an actual percentage... since they haven't come forward 



C'mon guys, just because her story is full of holes doesent mean we shouldnt allow her to ruin his life.



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eva01beserk said:
Would hate to live in a world that an allegation is to be belived just based on what genitals the acuser has. Im so glad he was cleared and soon he will be nominated. Hopepefully ford and the democrats like finestein get some punishment for making false acusations.

where is your proof that she made a false accusation? 



Mr Puggsly said:
C'mon guys, just because her story is full of holes doesent mean we shouldnt allow her to ruin his life.

but we should allow a possible sexual predator to gain enormous power just to spite the democratic party?



ResilientFighter said:
Mr Puggsly said:
C'mon guys, just because her story is full of holes doesent mean we shouldnt allow her to ruin his life.

but we should allow a possible sexual predator to gain enormous power just to spite the democratic party?

Wheres your proof?



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