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Forums - Nintendo - Diablo III took 9 months to port to Nintendo Switch

HylianSwordsman said:
Sounds like these ports take a lot longer than we thought. And with Japanese companies supposedly having not gotten on board until it was clear that Switch was going to be big, it's no wonder we haven't seen much yet, and why it's taken so long to get the Dragon Quest XI port. Seeing as that was 360/PS3 era technology that Diablo 3 was built on, I'd bet Japanese games built for PS4 will probably take even longer to port, so maybe we shouldn't give up hope for Persona 5, or maybe even a toned down version of Final Fantasy XV or Kingdom Hearts 3?

What exactly we thought? From start was obvious and even Miyamoto stated that Switch AAA port can be done in less than one year, and thats correct, this game is done in around 9 months. Using Dragon Quest XI like example of anything is totally wrong, its very clear that when we talk about that port comes to bad Square Enix planing and timing than anything else, that game is exception not rule. Switch has very similar technology to PS4/XB1 not to PS3/360, for devs, in this case they probably ported XB1/PS4 version of game not PS3/360.

 

HollyGamer said: 
Miyamotoo said: 

Maybe it's not super fast if you have most of Blizzard working on those ports, also it those ports could be in development even before PS3/360 version were out, and when we talking about PS4/XB1 we talking about very similar platforms and hardware.

But still porting to Switch is actually should have been very very easy. They already has the foundation, the engine and the familiarity with the system and Switch are Nvidia tegra GPU game system. Compared to PS3 and Xbox 360 that are using Exotic CPU and GPU and that was their first attempt. Even if the reason is not enough human resource to porting it , that's just blatant lie, it's like saying they are underestimating Switch and their potential sales and put super small team to porting it.

Maybe it was very easy, that again depends how big team was, its not same if you have team of 10-20 people and when you have team of 100+ people, and this game has huge amont of content. New games are done buy hole teams that usualy have 100+ people, late ports are done buy much smaller teams, that why new games are usualy done in 2-3 years buy 100+ people teams while ports are done in less than one year buy much smaller teams, and around 9 months is definitely around expected time for AAA game port.

 

HollyGamer said: 
Pemalite said: 

Games speak for themselves.
Often switch ports have better fidelity, higher frame-rates, better frame pacing and often better resolution, so  it's not just a "slight" power advantage.

I wouldn't using "slightly " if it's on par with PS4 and Xbox One. If it's PS4 and Xbox One then i will just be using " Better then " instead "slightly better " . Because Switch are still on the same gen graphic with Wii U, PS3 and Xbox 360 . It's matter of language for God Sake, you guys are a bunch of sensitive. 

There is huge difference between slightly and on pair, Switch in docked mode is around 3x stronger than PS3/360. And no, Switch is not on same gen graphic with Wii U espacily with PS3 and 360, it's somewhere between them and XB1/PS4. Fifa 18 for Switch is good example of this, not only that runs at 1080p compared to 720p on PS3/360, but also has higher quality effects, shaders, lighting, higher level of details, resolution textures, normal mapping, post-processing, depth of field...like DF stated, its mix of old and new. I mean even Doom and Wolfenstein 2 examples show us this, Switch versions have almost all effects and graphics features like PS4/XB1 while resolution and frame rate were cutback.

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2017-fifa-18-switch-face-off



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zorg1000 said:
DonFerrari said:

at 2M cost to make and about 20USD (could even be less) profit per copy it woul need 500k sales to break even (which is feasible) but it isn't just about breaking even and if you have a project that gives you a much better ROI than this then dev would be going there. This is what needs to be understood when preaching pubs hate Nintendo, they actually love money.

Generalizing? Go back to other answers and see this was already replied. When I say some or several Nintendo fans do or say something I'm not saying all or anything similar, you are the one understanding it this way to play a "DonFerrari have an agenda against Nintendo and its fan". When you yourself admit that you know there are some fans that do it, then criticizing that behavior is not criticizing the whole of Nintendo fans or lying.

Not provocative, it's a counter against people claiming devs are moron for not doing it, that it is super cheap and easy, they are losing money, hate Nintendo, etc. The most probable reason for Octopath Traveller and Monster Hunter Ultimate not going to PS4 or X1 is the cost to port and projected sales not being enough to justify it, no need to pitch forks.

Seems like it was 10 Blizzard plus a company they hired (which we guessed and could be severely wrong up or bellow) totalling 30 people on 9 months, or about 2M cost to port, which isn't expensive but still need 500k sales just to break even.

You're math is way off.

If the port costs $2 million and they get $20 per unit, it needs to sell 100k to break even not 500k.

You are right, my math was off. for a game like this 300k sales on Switch is easy thing and the profit is certainly enough to justify the cost (since they used third party to do most of the port instead of themselves so they didn't had much cost of opportunity).

Alby_da_Wolf said:
If the port cost 2M and took some time, we can say it's easy enough, but not as easy as just recompiling and testing it. We can also say that for a company like Blizzard it's an investment that despite likely moderately profitable, it has some qualities and possible further benefits, low risk, relatively low cost and possible good marketing value for at least two reasons, showing with facts they are willing to support the platform and porting a game that despite quite old now, is still one of the most successful action RPGs ever, loved by reviewers and even more by gamers. If many NS gamers will like it, there will be another benefit, showing the longevity of Blizzard games, a thing well known by PC gamers, less by PS and XB gamers and possibly unknown for Ninty-only gamers (there were previous Blizzard games also on consoles, like Lost Vikings, but Diablo III is the first really big Blizzard game ever ported to consoles).

Yep, 2M and 9 months isn't super easy and cheap, but for a game that can sell as much as Diablo it is justifiable investment.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

SpokenTruth said:
DonFerrari said:

Sure, let's just pretend I didn't got a logical argument discussion just a short while ago here.

Where did I say it isn't timely manner? 30 people earning about 85k a year would make us have about 2M USD to port the game. That is a cost that shows it isn't easy or super cheap to port and that is all that matter. Let's say PS4 took aditional 3 months and 10 people to port or  3.2M to get ported. Do you think Diablo 3 with sell on Switch 66% of what sold on PS4?

PS4 is "easy" to port, Switch is also called "easy" to port, same for X1. Still none of them are pennies to do.

$85,000 x 30 x .75 = $1.912 million.

Game cost = $60.
Developer cut = ~$15.

Sales required for ROI = 127,500.  Does it really matter if Switch can do 66% of PS4 sales when just 130, 000 sales turns a profit?

GhaudePhaede010 said:
Is anyone other than myself worried that even if you buy physical, you will have to download a large portion of this game?

Welcome to this generation of consoles.

I was already corrected in the math, yes was totally wrong.

It certainly matters, they could use a similar budget to do something that would generate much more profit. Because if by 30% more cost to do the port on PS4 it sells 3x more (not saying it's the case) they may look to make another investment instead of other ports to Switch in the future.

Business isn't just about breaking even.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

SpokenTruth said:
DonFerrari said:

I was already corrected in the math, yes was totally wrong.

It certainly matters, they could use a similar budget to do something that would generate much more profit. Because if by 30% more cost to do the port on PS4 it sells 3x more (not saying it's the case) they may look to make another investment instead of other ports to Switch in the future.

Business isn't just about breaking even.

Certainly that is the case if your available resources are limited and you can't outsource.  BUT....teams do outsource which is were most ports come from these days.

The publisher thinks they can sink $2 million to one subcontractor and $2 million to another for PS4 and Switch respectively and recoup back $10 million between then....they really don't care it divides up a long as it's above $2 million each.

There is the thing, resources are always limited, that is the basic premise of economy. Even if you count as resource only the people overseeing the port.

But as I said in a post above, considering 100-150k to break even the port, it selling over 300k (it is possible to have 500k) it is probably very justifiable to make the port. Still do you agree that for other games and companies with more limited budgets it may not be made?



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

SpokenTruth said:
DonFerrari said:

There is the thing, resources are always limited, that is the basic premise of economy. Even if you count as resource only the people overseeing the port.

But as I said in a post above, considering 100-150k to break even the port, it selling over 300k (it is possible to have 500k) it is probably very justifiable to make the port. Still do you agree that for other games and companies with more limited budgets it may not be made?

Of course.  And that's why not every game is being ported to Switch. But as we are seeing, there are a lot more ports being announced now than prior to Switch launch and it's precisely because it has been proven economically viable to do it.

There are also few situations when a publisher must decide between PS4 or Switch for a port given that PS4 already gets most games to start with....meaning those resources (porting studios) aren't really having to fight between consoles.

If I were a dev deciding between a Switch or Pro port, I would probably choose Switch most of the times as that would likely have more chances of added profits. I would say just some specific genres/titles would be bad investment to choose Switch over Pro.

And yep you are right, some ports aren't done because of the ROI not being there. Sure sometimes devs/pubs make a bad call, as it seems like that title would do good numbers on Switch with the port not being hard or taking to much of the original, but I think that is the smaller portion of cases. And you are also right that Switch is getting a healthy quantity of ports on what is feasible on the system without major redoing of the game and also shall make some other titles start with Switch already in mind (which may impact the PS4/X1/Pro/X versions unfortunately) and make the Switch version very competent.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

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A porting team wouldn't be a full-time team of 30 people for a year =P

Maybe 3 or 4 dedicated/full-time people.


It would likely be one artist and 2-3 three engineers; producers (to tell them they're doing it wrong), additional artist/coder assets, QA, and directors would all be part-time.



I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.

HollyGamer said:
Pemalite said: 

Games speak for themselves.
Often switch ports have better fidelity, higher frame-rates, better frame pacing and often better resolution, so  it's not just a "slight" power advantage.

I wouldn't using "slightly " if it's on par with PS4 and Xbox One. If it's PS4 and Xbox One then i will just be using " Better then " instead "slightly better " . Because Switch are still on the same gen graphic with Wii U, PS3 and Xbox 360 . It's matter of language for God Sake, you guys are a bunch of sensitive. 

It's been taking 7th gen ports and enhancing them.
But it's also been taking 8th gen ports and downgrading them, games that couldn't run on the 7th gen due to the hardware feature set being insufficient, like Doom and Wolfenstein.
So I most certainly stand by my last statement.

Performance wise... And I have been saying it since I knew the device was Tegra powered, it's performance sits between the 7th and 8th gen consoles with 8th gen hardware/capabilities.

And sensitive? Hardly. Being as accurate as possible? Most certainly.
The "matter of language" is certainly important so that statements don't get misconstrued.





www.youtube.com/@Pemalite

Jumpin said:

A porting team wouldn't be a full-time team of 30 people for a year =P

Maybe 3 or 4 dedicated/full-time people.


It would likely be one artist and 2-3 three engineers; producers (to tell them they're doing it wrong), additional artist/coder assets, QA, and directors would all be part-time.

Eh, you need to be realistic, 3-4 people could port some Indie game, but full AAA game, hardly, for such a projects teams are probably around 10-30 people.



Jumpin said:

A porting team wouldn't be a full-time team of 30 people for a year =P

Maybe 3 or 4 dedicated/full-time people.


It would likely be one artist and 2-3 three engineers; producers (to tell them they're doing it wrong), additional artist/coder assets, QA, and directors would all be part-time.

So you have any source that this game was ported by 4 people or less?

Or are you saying that it perhaps used up to 30 people for 9 months then it was terribly hard or not well done?

 

If ports needed 4 people for 1 year that would make porting inconsequential and all 3rd party that doesn't have contracts for exclusivity should show in all systems. But that isn't what is happening.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

Miyamotoo said: 
HollyGamer said: 

But still porting to Switch is actually should have been very very easy. They already has the foundation, the engine and the familiarity with the system and Switch are Nvidia tegra GPU game system. Compared to PS3 and Xbox 360 that are using Exotic CPU and GPU and that was their first attempt. Even if the reason is not enough human resource to porting it , that's just blatant lie, it's like saying they are underestimating Switch and their potential sales and put super small team to porting it.

Maybe it was very easy, that again depends how big team was, its not same if you have team of 10-20 people and when you have team of 100+ people, and this game has huge amont of content. New games are done buy hole teams that usualy have 100+ people, late ports are done buy much smaller teams, that why new games are usualy done in 2-3 years buy 100+ people teams while ports are done in less than one year buy much smaller teams, and around 9 months is definitely around expected time for AAA game port.

 

HollyGamer said: 

I wouldn't using "slightly " if it's on par with PS4 and Xbox One. If it's PS4 and Xbox One then i will just be using " Better then " instead "slightly better " . Because Switch are still on the same gen graphic with Wii U, PS3 and Xbox 360 . It's matter of language for God Sake, you guys are a bunch of sensitive. 

There is huge difference between slightly and on pair, Switch in docked mode is around 3x stronger than PS3/360. And no, Switch is not on same gen graphic with Wii U espacily with PS3 and 360, it's somewhere between them and XB1/PS4. Fifa 18 for Switch is good example of this, not only that runs at 1080p compared to 720p on PS3/360, but also has higher quality effects, shaders, lighting, higher level of details, resolution textures, normal mapping, post-processing, depth of field...like DF stated, its mix of old and new. I mean even Doom and Wolfenstein 2 examples show us this, Switch versions have almost all effects and graphics features like PS4/XB1 while resolution and frame rate were cutback.

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2017-fifa-18-switch-face-off

Fifa are not using the same graphic engine with Fifa 2018 on PS4 and Xbox One , Doom and Wolfstain is different case even my potato PC from 2009 taht is equal to PS3 and Xbox 360can still play the games with graphical downgrade.