By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Gaming Discussion - The Truth behind MS and Rare

Mr Puggsly said:
curl-6 said:

I am open to creativity, but N&B just wasn't any fun, it always felt like monotonous busywork, especially when you spent ages tediously assembling a vehicle only to find the challenge was unwinnable cos of the way you built it.

And notable does not equal good. Quality is a matter of subjective opinion and Kinect Sports was garbage in my assessment, how "notable" it was doesn't enter the equation.

Right... if your vehicle didn't work than you would go back to building editor and try something new. Sometimes you could come up with a solution to finish a mission in seconds. Again, its gonna be boring unless you're open to building. Its also the kind of game you can enjoy while listen to a podcast, listening to the news, etc. It was a fun game that didn't require your undivided attention. Sometimes that's what I want.

I think some games could fall into a category of objectively bad and poorly designed. That games we're talking about were good even if you didn't enjoy them.

I am open to creativity and customization, N&B just didn't do it in a way that was fun or engaging to me, more annoying and dull. It's good that you enjoyed it, but I could not.

And even design is open to interpretation, people often disagree as to whether a game has good level design for instance.



Around the Network
Mr Puggsly said:
Wyrdness said:

Free Radical was one studio a number of members create and they developed the Timesplitters series before being bought by Crytek and helping develop Crysis 2 and 3.

So even those guys didn't stick to what Rare was known for. Timesplitters games are over rated in my opinion, at least compared to other notable shooters of the era.

What ever your opinion the general view of the series is that they're good games and even after they joined Crytek they worked on Crysis 2 and 3 all games which are a step above PDZ in the view of many, FR at least kept up with the crowd around it Rare didn't, Rare's problem is that they had vision but their execution was still stuck in their 90s heyday and they were inefficient as a studio this is why Nintendo never bought them and went with the Turok team instead.



RolStoppable said:
KiigelHeart said:
Just look how passionate Rare are with Sea of Thieves and their vision of the game. It's obvious they genuinely love their project. And thinking how ambitious and unique the concept is it's quite obvious they were given creative freedom. Game like this sure wasn't a safe beta for Microsoft.

Freudian slip.

lol :D that's a good one.



TheBird said:
The studio still has the same heart like they always have had. They should of never had gone "AAA" with SoT (The game really just has a AAA price tag). But the quality, passion, and ambition for the game is there like we would expect from Rare. Time will tell more with Battletoads coming next year.

Battletoads isn't being made by Rare though, it's being made by Dlala Studios. 



curl-6 said:
Mr Puggsly said:

Right... if your vehicle didn't work than you would go back to building editor and try something new. Sometimes you could come up with a solution to finish a mission in seconds. Again, its gonna be boring unless you're open to building. Its also the kind of game you can enjoy while listen to a podcast, listening to the news, etc. It was a fun game that didn't require your undivided attention. Sometimes that's what I want.

I think some games could fall into a category of objectively bad and poorly designed. That games we're talking about were good even if you didn't enjoy them.

I am open to creativity and customization, N&B just didn't do it in a way that was fun or engaging to me, more annoying and dull. It's good that you enjoyed it, but I could not.

And even design is open to interpretation, people often disagree as to whether a game has good level design for instance.

That could be said about all the Rare 3D platformers though, they're all kinda dull by modern standards. Most of the N64 games aged horribly.

N&B tried something unique and I enjoyed it. People act like it was a critical disaster as well, but it did well critically and with great praise from notable websites. Not a single "negative" review on Metacritic.



Recently Completed
River City: Rival Showdown
for 3DS (3/5) - River City: Tokyo Rumble for 3DS (4/5) - Zelda: BotW for Wii U (5/5) - Zelda: BotW for Switch (5/5) - Zelda: Link's Awakening for Switch (4/5) - Rage 2 for X1X (4/5) - Rage for 360 (3/5) - Streets of Rage 4 for X1/PC (4/5) - Gears 5 for X1X (5/5) - Mortal Kombat 11 for X1X (5/5) - Doom 64 for N64 (emulator) (3/5) - Crackdown 3 for X1S/X1X (4/5) - Infinity Blade III - for iPad 4 (3/5) - Infinity Blade II - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Infinity Blade - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Wolfenstein: The Old Blood for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Origins for X1 (3/5) - Uncharted: Lost Legacy for PS4 (4/5) - EA UFC 3 for X1 (4/5) - Doom for X1 (4/5) - Titanfall 2 for X1 (4/5) - Super Mario 3D World for Wii U (4/5) - South Park: The Stick of Truth for X1 BC (4/5) - Call of Duty: WWII for X1 (4/5) -Wolfenstein II for X1 - (4/5) - Dead or Alive: Dimensions for 3DS (4/5) - Marvel vs Capcom: Infinite for X1 (3/5) - Halo Wars 2 for X1/PC (4/5) - Halo Wars: DE for X1 (4/5) - Tekken 7 for X1 (4/5) - Injustice 2 for X1 (4/5) - Yakuza 5 for PS3 (3/5) - Battlefield 1 (Campaign) for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Syndicate for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: MW Remastered for X1 (4/5) - Donkey Kong Country Returns for 3DS (4/5) - Forza Horizon 3 for X1 (5/5)

Around the Network
Mr Puggsly said:
curl-6 said:

I am open to creativity and customization, N&B just didn't do it in a way that was fun or engaging to me, more annoying and dull. It's good that you enjoyed it, but I could not.

And even design is open to interpretation, people often disagree as to whether a game has good level design for instance.

That could be said about all the Rare 3D platformers though, they're all kinda dull by modern standards. Most of the N64 games aged horribly.

N&B tried something unique and I enjoyed it. People act like it was a critical disaster as well, but it did well critically and with great praise from notable websites. Not a single "negative" review on Metacritic.

On the contrary I still find Banjo Kazooie/Tooie to be engaging to this day. I didn't even play Conker's Bad Fur Day until last gen and even in the cold light of the early 2010s I liked it. Those games had a sense of discovery, exploring and finding new things was just so much more fun than anything in N&B. Obviously, enjoyment is subjective, which is why I also place zero stock in what Metacritic says.



fauzman said:

 

If what you say is true, then I dont see how MS ISNT at least partially to blame. If the management and guidance at the top left, surely then it is MS's responsibility to provide that guidance.

 

You have a lot of other good studios who have creative leads and studio heads depart. And a lot of those times you DONT see it affecting the quality of their future outputs (though admittedly in some cases it does). It seems like you are just trying to make excuses.

Bear in mind that i have never played a rare game so am not making a comment on the quality of their games, but simply your argument. 

MS could have easily helped them get back on track and we cannot say they didn't try. They brought a dying horse. The team was splitting up during the making of Perfect Dark on the N64. You had the two founders and Development Legends retire, the ones that convinced Nintendo to make games on there NES. A lot has changed and unfortunately Nintendo saw this coming. Both brands are smart with this, Nintendo made good money on selling Rare at there high point and MS gained IPs for there newly Xbox brand. Rare hasn't been the same but id much rather Rare under MS than any other brand especially Activison. MS can afford to hold onto the studio while under someone else, Rare might of closed its doors long ago. 

There aren't excuses here, just what a lot of people seem to bypass with Rare falling and saying its MS's fault. They spent $375m on a studio where MS gave them creative freedom and faith and Rare simply struggled. Grabbed by the Ghoulies, Perfect Dark Zero, Banjo Nuts n Bolts were all Rare's ideas and efforts. One thing Rare has always done right is they make beautiful looking games and Sea of Thieves today is no exception to Rare's history. But after those efforts from Rare and Rare not making the money MS forecast, you can see why MS shuffled them around.

Lets be honest, Rare did make the best Kinect games which did bring in the money that probably gave Rare back some of its life blood. Kinect is probably the reason why Rare is still a thing today. I don't like Kinect games and never played them but we need to start seeing things on the other side of the fence.



Wyrdness said:
Mr Puggsly said:

So even those guys didn't stick to what Rare was known for. Timesplitters games are over rated in my opinion, at least compared to other notable shooters of the era.

What ever your opinion the general view of the series is that they're good games and even after they joined Crytek they worked on Crysis 2 and 3 all games which are a step above PDZ in the view of many, FR at least kept up with the crowd around it Rare didn't, Rare's problem is that they had vision but their execution was still stuck in their 90s heyday and they were inefficient as a studio this is why Nintendo never bought them and went with the Turok team instead.

Rare only made a single FPS after being purchased by MS. Hard to say what they would have accomplished if they stayed on that genre.

The Xbox already had plenty of shooters so I'm sure they were encouraged to focus on other genres.

Between Viva Pinata, Banjo N&B, Kinect Sports, and Sea of Thieves, I would argue they weren't stuck in their 90s heyday. If anything, maybe their games haven't felt ambitious compared to other major studios.



Recently Completed
River City: Rival Showdown
for 3DS (3/5) - River City: Tokyo Rumble for 3DS (4/5) - Zelda: BotW for Wii U (5/5) - Zelda: BotW for Switch (5/5) - Zelda: Link's Awakening for Switch (4/5) - Rage 2 for X1X (4/5) - Rage for 360 (3/5) - Streets of Rage 4 for X1/PC (4/5) - Gears 5 for X1X (5/5) - Mortal Kombat 11 for X1X (5/5) - Doom 64 for N64 (emulator) (3/5) - Crackdown 3 for X1S/X1X (4/5) - Infinity Blade III - for iPad 4 (3/5) - Infinity Blade II - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Infinity Blade - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Wolfenstein: The Old Blood for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Origins for X1 (3/5) - Uncharted: Lost Legacy for PS4 (4/5) - EA UFC 3 for X1 (4/5) - Doom for X1 (4/5) - Titanfall 2 for X1 (4/5) - Super Mario 3D World for Wii U (4/5) - South Park: The Stick of Truth for X1 BC (4/5) - Call of Duty: WWII for X1 (4/5) -Wolfenstein II for X1 - (4/5) - Dead or Alive: Dimensions for 3DS (4/5) - Marvel vs Capcom: Infinite for X1 (3/5) - Halo Wars 2 for X1/PC (4/5) - Halo Wars: DE for X1 (4/5) - Tekken 7 for X1 (4/5) - Injustice 2 for X1 (4/5) - Yakuza 5 for PS3 (3/5) - Battlefield 1 (Campaign) for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Syndicate for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: MW Remastered for X1 (4/5) - Donkey Kong Country Returns for 3DS (4/5) - Forza Horizon 3 for X1 (5/5)

Nintendo had great timing and sold their share high. People had already begun to leave Rare, despite the Stampers still being there. I never thought it was fair to blame Microsoft entirely for the perceived drop off.

They had a great run, and I'll always love that golden age of theirs from the mid 90's-early 2000's.



Ka-pi96 said:
Mr Puggsly said:

I'm not disagreeing the talent left. But where did they go? We haven't seen a lot of notable come from former Rare people. Yooka Laylee was a disappointment as well.

Also, the Xbox audience isn't the same as the Nintendo audience. They couldn't rest on their laurels and achieve the same success.

They formed Free Radical. TimeSplitters was effectively a spiritual successor to Goldeneye/Perfect Dark (and much better than both!).

I wouldn't say Timesplitters was better than Goldeneye and Perfect Dark. That would be subjective. They did make a couple decent games.. but better I wouldn't agree with.

In terms of critical acclaim, they weren't even rated in the same league as what RareWare were dishing out in there Prime.

First Person Shooters Comparisons

Post Rare

Timesplitters 1 - 81

Timesplitters 2 - 90

Timesplitters Future Perfect - 84

RareWare

Goldeneye N64 - 96 

Perfect Dark N64 - 97 

Platformers Comparisons

Post Rare

Yakoo Layee - 73

RareWare

Banjo Kazooie - 92

Banjo Tooie - 90

Conkers BFD - 92

Donkey Kong 64 - 90