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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Would you save Ellie?

 

Ellie or vaccine?

Ellie 39 41.05%
 
Vaccine 56 58.95%
 
Total:95
GoOnKid on 28 June 2018
CrazyGamer2017 said:
GoOnKid said:

Sorry for cherrypicking just one sentence of your reply (and sorry for just rumbling in unasked), but how many lives has Joel taken throughout his journey? Tens if not hundreds of healthy and reasonable people who all had backgrounds. But they don't count, right?

Fact is that Joel has to kill the doctor to save Ellie.

No problem if you wish to respond to part of what I said, picking one line out of the rest is fine.

First what people that Joel killed are you talking about?

If you mean those who would have killed him during the game play then he kills them in self-defense, they were all part of militias that impose a rule of terror and dominion upon the weaker people and if Joel wouldn't kill them they would kill him and Ellie so that's self defense.

If you mean people Joel killed in his past when it is implied that Joel himself was like those bad people that kill, then yes such killings are wrong and murder. But that's what this game is all about: Redemption. Joel was a bad person before and he changed like changed SO MUCH that he saves Ellie when it was so much easier to let her die in the hands of the Fireflies especially to save all of mankind...

Joel went from bad guy to extremely good guy. I guess one could say the main theme of this game is REDEMPTION.

Oh I almost forgot, the doctor. Well if that doctor threatens to kill Ellie then Joel must save Ellie from a murderer. No different than when Joel kills militia that threatens to kill him and Ellie.

Yes, those ones. A kill is a kill, no matter who you kill. It's never okay to kill someone just because of different sides.

In Ellie's case it's not that Joel actively killed her, she chose herself to become a sacrifice for science in order to gain a chance to save humanity. That's a big difference in my eyes and Joel forced his will upon her.



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d21lewis on 28 June 2018
CrazyGamer2017 said:
d21lewis said:

Calm down. I'm not attacking you.

Before The Walking Dead video game released, I had no interest in the series. After playing the game, I was so impressed, I went back and watched the entire series up to that point and proceeded to buy all of the comics. I'm not trying to change your stance on murder. I'm not even going on about the subject of The Last of Us. I just saw that a fellow gamer had missed out on one of my fondest gaming experiences and I was suggesting you see the story unfold. I still think Season One of that game is better than every season of the show and more impactful than much of the comic.

Now, give me a kiss.

Oh I see. I'll consider playing the game then. The episodic genre is not really for me but I could give it a try why not

It's more "choose your own adventure" than game but I think you'll love it. It won all of those game of the year awards for a reason! You don't have to rush and play it but when/if you do play it, post your opinion on it

One of the few times a game made me cry!



GribbleGrunger on 28 June 2018
CrazyGamer2017 said:
GribbleGrunger said:

Why do you feel it's necessary to justify what Joel did? There was NO choice. This wasn't a story about saving humanity, it was a story about the road to redemption and Fatherhood. Joel just did what any Father would do and that's it. There's nothing beyond that other than the question of whether the lie was the right thing to do. 

Well out of curiosity, should you have the choice: Humanity or Ellie, which would you go for?  Me Ellie again and again and again... U don't murder someone to save someone else, period and I explained this in detail in my previous posts.

As for the other issue here: The lie. If Joel had told the truth to Ellie, she could have gone into a guilt trip that could have ended up badly. By lying to Ellie, Joel saved her from the moral dilemma, a dilemma that no child should have to be stuck with. Joel took upon his shoulders the weight of his choice of saving her with the consequences to humanity this choice entailed. That is extremely noble of him and an act of love. Not only did he save her from death that the Fireflies would have forced upon Ellie but he also saved her from the moral consequences of that choice. He allowed her to both live and while living, not feel guilt for her being alive and healthy. Joel being the one that must live with the guilt that comes with such knowledge. That's what love is in my book.

As a Father, I'd obvious save Ellie. But it wouldn't be a choice, it would just be instinctive. I've seen many people bringing 'choice' into the equation (which it is AFTER Joel kills the doctor and rescues Ellie) but that exists as part of another context, not 'saving the world'. It surprises me how little people actually pay attention to characters. I suppose we can blame Hollywood and it's obsession with large explosions and quick cuts for that, as well as the pseudo 'grown up' themes of saving the world, preventing famine or achieving world peace. You know ... the sort of thing lots of students say to impress grown ups. You see, if you think back through the character development, you'll find why Ellie would have made the choice, and it wouldn't have been 'to save humanity', it would have been because she was 'waiting for her turn'. 'That's not on her' though, as Joel points out towards the end of the narrative. Ellie was fatalistic and wanted to die for her friend. Whilst the sacrifice would have saved humanity, the real reason for her giving her life up would have been guilt. 



 

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StokedUp on 28 June 2018

As a father of a 4 year old daughter I’d definitely choose Ellie, fuck the world, there’s not a chance I’d sacrifice my girl for it. Joel eventually saw Ellie as his daughter and developed the fatherly love you develop when you have a daughter (or son). I challenge any father or mother here to say different, and if you do you’re clearly lying that you’re a parent.



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jardesonbarbosa on 28 June 2018

Ellie. I'm very selfish, in the real world I wouldn't give two fucks about humanity. Plus, they've failed before.



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Ultr on 28 June 2018
CrazyGamer2017 said:
GoOnKid said:

Sorry for cherrypicking just one sentence of your reply (and sorry for just rumbling in unasked), but how many lives has Joel taken throughout his journey? Tens if not hundreds of healthy and reasonable people who all had backgrounds. But they don't count, right?

Fact is that Joel has to kill the doctor to save Ellie.

No problem if you wish to respond to part of what I said, picking one line out of the rest is fine.

First what people that Joel killed are you talking about?

If you mean those who would have killed him during the game play then he kills them in self-defense, they were all part of militias that impose a rule of terror and dominion upon the weaker people and if Joel wouldn't kill them they would kill him and Ellie so that's self defense.

If you mean people Joel killed in his past when it is implied that Joel himself was like those bad people that kill, then yes such killings are wrong and murder. But that's what this game is all about: Redemption. Joel was a bad person before and he changed like changed SO MUCH that he saves Ellie when it was so much easier to let her die in the hands of the Fireflies especially to save all of mankind...

Joel went from bad guy to extremely good guy. I guess one could say the main theme of this game is REDEMPTION.

Oh I almost forgot, the doctor. Well if that doctor threatens to kill Ellie then Joel must save Ellie from a murderer. No different than when Joel kills militia that threatens to kill him and Ellie.

Well yes and no. Joel is an asshole. You could already see this in the prologue. Where he lets the family on the street even though they had enough place in the car.

He is a very selfish person. when did Joel turn into a good guy? He just started to care about a girl thats all, he is just selfish. He has no sympathy or compassion, except for the people that he "loves".

Now I dont want to say I would have done something else. I am just saying how I see it.
If Ellie was my daughter I would of course not let her die there.

 

Oh and btw you dont have to kill the doctor. thats optional as far as I remember.



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EricHiggin on 28 June 2018
GribbleGrunger said:

I love how people are rationalising this as if the choice Joel made was some sort of moral choice.

If you believe Joel made the wrong choice, tomorrow, go to your fathers or mothers or children and tell them to their face: 'You know, if I had to choose between possibly saving humanity and saving you, I'd let you die.'

This is a nonsense of a conversation.
GribbleGrunger said:
m0ney said:

They would sacrifice themselves without anyone needing to tell them anything, because it's the right thing to do.

It's your choice, not their's ... remember? Go on, tomorrow, do as I've said. After all it's only theoretical and not the same as what Joel did.  I'm sure they'd understand that you value others over them. 

I hate these conversation because people are not being 'real'. 
m0ney said:
GribbleGrunger said:

It's your choice, not their's ... remember? Go on, tomorrow, do as I've said. After all it's only theoretical and not the same as what Joel did.  I'm sure they'd understand that you value others over them. 

I hate these conversation because people are not being 'real'. 

You don't see the big picture but I don't blame you, most people are short sighted.

While I understand these points deviate from TLOU story, I think another similar question needs to be asked to see both sides of the coin.

Get on a worldwide platform with someone who can grab a vast amount of the worlds attention and use that platform to wholeheartedly tell the world that if it came down to saving just those few people in your direct family or the other 7 billion people on this planet, that you would pick your family and let the rest of humanity die, and see how the world reacts.

If you think Trump get's a lot of hate, I can assure you that this would be much much worse.

I'm not necessarily saying either of you are wrong, but while one decision is strongly biological, the other is strongly logical. Since the decision is up to that one person, what really matters is what they believe. Do they think the individual is more important or the group? I don't think you can easily say one or the other is a better decision. Each has it's pros and cons.

An even deeper question would be how well could you handle the situation afterwards? Could you really live with yourself after something like that, regardless of the choice you made? It's an insanely difficult predicament to ponder. In terms of TLOU story, I think whether or not to save Ellie based on the information at hand is a much simpler decision than this scenario could ever be.



Jonan23 on 28 June 2018

I wish I could say that I could sacrifice Ellie for the greater good but I am not sure that I can.



DonFerrari on 28 June 2018

When you are a father that have seem human race are about useless would you sacrifice your daughter for it? No point in doing it. That is the whole premise of the last of US.



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Salnax on 28 June 2018

I haven't played The Last of Us, but based on what I know of the scenario, I'd have insisted that the Fireflies waited until she woke up and asked her.

She's supposed to be a fairly intelligent person. From my in-universe knowledge, I might suppose that she guessed that this would be necessary. That could be why she was quiet, especially if she didn't want me to know. Since that could be the case, I would permit her to decide and sacrifice her life if she deemed it worthwhile.



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