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Forums - Politics Discussion - What Is Happening To Gaming Forums?

Hiku said: 

That subject aside, the fact that there are conspiracy theories about agendas EVERY SINGLE time there's focus on someone who doesn't check every box on the male/Caucasian/straight checklist is also very toxic behavior and tiring for people to read. 

I'm noticing this a lot too.  No matter what the intention of the writer are, you get people complaining about agendas being forced down their throats. People don't take things at face value anymore, and it's pretty frustrating to constantly see.

Spoiler alert: There isn't always an agenda.



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The site overreacted but on the topic of your actual argument.... It feels like you're the one who is too overtly conscious of "agenda's" which is a natural component of almost any good narrative. I mean its pretty simple yet effective juxtaposition ND is doing in that showpiece. We played through the first game so Ellie and know her development, her stabbing a man in the neck isn't exactly a shock. The scene perfectly contrasts some tender young romance against the harsh realities we all knew and expected to perpetuate the game, whilst taken into account how Ellie (a young girl) is a dark horse. Asking the writers to be obviously to her gender, sexuality or pretend that she exists in some utopian bubble isn't going to help the narrative.

Ellie: "every guy in this room is staring at you right now"
GF: "Maybe they're staring at you"
Ellie: "Or not.."
GF: "Maybe they're jealous of you"
Ellie: "I'm just a girl, In not a threat"
GF: "Oh ellie... I think they should be terrified of you" (this is not new infomation)

Cuts to Ellie being exactly what we know her to be and proving the GF right.

I'm curious at what bothers you about it. What agenda driven point is it thats making you uncomfortable? And on the topic of Agenda's, do you think that Ellie would be gay if TLOU was made in 2004? A narrative and its characters being a zeitgeist of the time is not a bad thing, unless you think its inauthetic and pandering. If you feel that way about this scene, I imagine you hate all video game writing? Or more likely you're so heavily sensitised to gender politics to the point that any reference/inclusion of it ruins your enjoyment of a perfectly executed demo.



Could be agenda driven, maybe, or it's just being used to create extra hype. In terms of the story itself, if I understand it correctly, isn't Ellie the only known human being that is immune? Just think about it. Anyone who knew she had this would kill for the same peace of mind. Her having as many children as possible in a world like that would make way too much sense, but if she's a straight up lesbian...

I mean, people are who they are, but it's gotta make players feel to some degree that she's being extremely selfish if this turns out to be the case. Not giving up her life for humanity is one thing, but also deciding not to create immune life, well that's another.

If this is how the story played out in TLOU2, then you could almost argue it's an agenda against feminism considering doing the 'right thing' could be looked at as just as important, if not more important than doing whatever you want, given this scenario.

Last edited by EricHiggin - on 12 June 2018

I don't understand how the kiss can be forced? People keep saying that but they never explain what they mean. What does it mean to be forced? If she kissed a guy, is it forced as well? Basically when you say something is forced, it means that it is done without permission or against someones will.



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EricHiggin said:

Could be agenda driven, maybe, or it's just being used to create extra hype. In terms of the story itself, if I understand it correctly, isn't Ellie the only known human being that is immune? Just think about it. Anyone who knew she had this would kill for the same peace of mind. Her having as many children as possible in a world like that would make way too much sense, but if she's a straight up lesbian...

I mean, people are who they are, but it's gotta make players feel to some degree that she's being extremely selfish if this turns out to be the case. Not giving up her life for humanity is one thing, but also deciding not to create immune life, well that's another.

If this is how the story played out in TLOU2, then you could almost argue it's an agenda against feminism considering doing the 'right thing' could be looked at as just as important, if not more important than doing whatever you want, given this scenario.

The idea of what it means to be selfish is the crux the first story and Joel's choice. 

Basically he gave here the right to choose for herself but he didn't do that intentionally.  He had a choice to make and he made the selfish one by Killing the Fireflies and saving Ellie's life.  I have argued many time that Joel's decision was selfish even if we all understand why he did it.  He put his feeling and longings for his daughter before humanity  And most importantly HE DID THIS AGAINST ELLIE's WISHES.

Joel then LIED to her and told her that the Fireflies concluded that she wasn't a candidate.   Assuming that Ellies swallowed here pride and believed him, she is now free to live out her life without the danger of being seen as selfish for dong so.   There is also no indication ever given that Ellie's parents were also immune meaning that the trait could be easily passed on to offspring.  And how do you go about testing that theory without sacrificing an innocent baby...?  That is an entirely new level of selfish.

With the information she has been given by Joel (even though it is a lie) she is not wrong for just living her life. 

Of course, one wonders if she will learn the truth about what Joel did.

 

 



Is gaf still a sjw hive? Or is it different now?



GribbleGrunger said:
SpokenTruth said:

Cliffbo, what were doing at Resetera to start with?

What ... what? Are you a E-mpire guy? 

Indeed.



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GribbleGrunger said:
Ka-pi96 said:
You're complaining about poor moderation on a known SJW hive-mind site? Like, no shit Sherlock

Well, yeah, I knew the worse of GAF had migrated there but I wrote what I said so clearly I didn't think anyone could misconstrue. What I didn't bargain for is the amount of people who seemed to want to deliberately misconstrue. It became a feeding party.

You either get lucky or you don't with how they interpret anything.  

GribbleGrunger said:
mutantsushi said:

Seriously, I think you yourself wrote what you accuse the mods there of doing.
You wrote "it can also FEEL (note that word again) agenda driven in the current climate".
The mods seem to feel that your writing was agenda driven in the current climate.
Aside from "the current climate", it doesn't sound like you claim there is any ultimate problem with the scene.
Certainly if it wasn't homo pair in the scene, it would be simple sentimental vs violent potential contrast right?
And you don't seem inclined to see that contrast as impossible just because they're homo right?
So you're politicizing it not on it's merit but because of your sentiment about other happenings.
And that's what they're doing re: your comment. Even though as you point out it's fine on it's own merit.
But your very argument opens the door to considering that unrelated happenings are valid to pass judgement on something.
I don't know what else to say beyond that.

Many people said this on that forum too but this time I'll answer. It couldn't have been a man, could it now. The mirroring is entirely reliant upon both scenes referring to males. 

I don't particularly agree.  I did not interpret the scene the same way you did.  

It was just a contrast, and showing Ellie holding her own.  

Kerotan said:
Is gaf still a sjw hive? Or is it different now?

It's different now.  



I'm probably the only lesbian on this message board if that counts for anything in terms of credibility on this matter, and I'd just like to point out a few things real quick because, honestly, the OP was extremely hurtful to read. I barely made it through. I'm not going to debate the merits of ResetEra's board policies because that seems like a place I would probably get banned from too, albeit for much different reasons. What's more, I'm sure the author of the OP doesn't think of himself as a hateful person and believes that he means well; that he's only concerned about the artistic quality of games and whatnot. But I just want to point out how that's not really being honest with one's self here. Let me pose a couple challenges real quick:

-How many straight-people kisses in games have you seen described as part of "an agenda" before?

-How many other proper AAA video games out there center a lesbian protagonist? (Spoiler: It's none. TLOU2 will be the first in history.)

You see what I'm getting at here? The fact that TLOU2 validates my orientation is something that increases the appeal of TLOU2 for me. Life doesn't always have to be about you and what you find appealing. Don't want it? Don't buy it! Nobody's making you, you know?

Yes, technically there are a small, small number of other games that allow for say romance arcs between female avatars, but invariably they are either small, independently-developed games (like Butterfly Soup or Gone Home) or games where it doesn't really matter narratively anyway and they give you a blank slate protagonist who's sex and orientation you can choose and who is just supposed to be a stand-in for the player with no personality and a title instead of a name (like in the Dragon Age games) anyway. TLOU2 will be the only exception that I'm aware of. Considering the sheer volume of games I've played through over the decades that have compelled me to imagine myself as not only straight, but also male, I think you can live with one whole exception to the aforementioned rules existing. And yeah, I'm more than fine with the developers taking a moment to celebrate that because it IS actually revolutionary in mainstream game development as yet! What's wrong with that? It's not like it's something that's exactly done all the time in games now is it? It's not a trope or a cliche that needs breaking away from for the sake of creativity now is it?

Something else I appreciated about the way the scene we're talking about was portrayed was that they actually had the more femme of the two be the more active one. That defies lazy stereotyping on a different level as well and is actually pretty realistic in my experience. That happens all the time. And also that Ellie is the more reserved of the two clearly doesn't make her a weak character either. More butch lesbians are also marginalized in media presentations of lesbians typically because they're not the kind of females that guys are attracted to and want to masturbate to, so I think it's also nice that they have Ellie as the main character. The scene is masterfully written and genuinely touching to me anyway. I LOVE the lighting, the music (oh god, the MUSIC!), the characters, the wit, and the aforementioned honesty. It's a wonderful scene out of a wonderful trailer for a game that, frankly, has just gone from being a game that I was highly anticipating to being really maybe even the most anticipated release ever for me!

But anyway, I just don't think the OP appreciates how important a simple gesture like making Ellie lesbian and not shying away from portraying that, even celebrating it a little (heaven forbid), is to many women like me out there.

Last edited by Jaicee - on 13 June 2018