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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Final Fantasy VI Vs Chrono Trigger:- Whos the king of SNES RPGs?

Riachu on 13 April 2008

I am pretty sure that it's the main characters the need character depth. For villains, it is not all that necessary since you are suppose to hate someone like Kefka



 

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blaydcor on 13 April 2008

I go through moods where I think FF IV is the best, then moods where I think Chrono Trigger is. Hard to really lean one way or another.

If it came down to it, though, I'd give the nod to Chronotrigger. The story is the best I've ever seen in a game, hands down.

Seiken Densetsu III is a close third though.

 OFF TOPIC: (sort of) By the way, does anybody else get annoyed when a thread is "what's better? X or Y?" and some guy always has to answer "Z"? It's an either/or question, dammit.



Crusty VGchartz old timer who sporadically returns & posts. Let's debate nebulous shit and expand our perpectives. Or whatever.

Riachu on 13 April 2008
blaydcor said:

I go through moods where I think FF IV is the best, then moods where I think Chrono Trigger is. Hard to really lean one way or another.

If it came down to it, though, I'd give the nod to Chronotrigger. The story is the best I've ever seen in a game, hands down.

Seiken Densetsu III is a close third though.

OFF TOPIC: (sort of) By the way, does anybody else get annoyed when a thread is "what's better? X or Y?" and some guy always has to answer "Z"? It's an either/or question, dammit.


 Chrono Trigger's story is great but I wouldn't say the best since you got Final Fantasy VI with its memorable characters



 

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akuma587 on 13 April 2008

Both are overrated, IMO. FF IV was a better game.



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ckmlb on 13 April 2008
akuma587 said:
Both are overrated, IMO. FF IV was a better game.

I came into this thread to post this :p Also as far as jrpg is concerned for me it's PS2>SNES>PS1.

Thanks to Blacksaber for the sig!

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terran77 on 13 April 2008

Chrono trigger, but this is a choice between my two favorite games of all time



mike_intellivision on 13 April 2008

Chrono Trigger did not have random battles.
Need I say more.

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Kasz216 on 13 April 2008
Words Of Wisdom said:
twesterm said:

Backstory - He was a genetic experiment gone bad. The expirements fucked with his head and made him bat-shit insane. Also, he has that evil for the sake of being evil. Someone going on a rampage because they don't like Mondays may not be scary to you, but it's pretty frightening to me. Difference of opinion I suppose.

Motivation - Part 1 -- gain power. Part 2 -- create a monument to nothing. Motivation doesn't have to be overly complex to be good, sometimes simple works just as well.

Actions - Well lets see. He poisoned an entire nation because he was impatient. He seriously fucked with Celes and all her trust issues. He more or less ended a race (espers). He back stabbed his boss. He destroyed and sucked the life out of the world. He reshaped the world. It took 13, not three, people to bring him down. He killed general Leo. The list goes on.

Ire Level - look above, you can have him for just about any of those.

Personality - True, not much personality other than being a psycho clown but like I said, he didn't need it.


Backstory - Where was the genetic experiment thing explained? Maybe I missed that part.

Motivation - Except that simple in this case hurts Kefka because he already feels like a two-dimensional character with no depth.

Actions - He didn't poison a nation, he poisoned a castle's population. All he did with Celes was the same thing he did to Gestahl, backstab her. No frills there. I already gave props to nearly destroying the world. That is kind of worth noting. ^_~ The number of people in your party doesn't matter. If it did Suikoden games would have the most noteworthy villains of all considering you get well over 60 characters. Leo was just another person Kefka betrayed.*

*As a side note, you'd think with Kefka betraying everyone one after another that someone would catch on to the fact that he's an evil maniacal clown with a tendency to backstab but I guess not.

Ire level - Still, none of those things made me as a player angry. In playing SRW:OG2, the final showdown with a character named "Archibald Grims" was one of the most satisfying encounters I've had in an RPG. Sending that bastard to the grave was long overdue. Kefka's finale was kind of meh by comparison. Even Idura of Lufia 2 managed to managed to arise more ire than Kefka and he was just a side villain.

Personality - Psycho clown. Funny. ^_^


Still, to each their own. If you still want to disagree, I'm okay with agreeing to disagree.


But Archibald Grims and Kefka were like... the same character.

Except Grims didn't have a cool laugh. Grims had even less motivation.

He killed someones family, then showed up acting like a dick by randomly hurting and killing people, backstabbing people left and right and trying to win by unethical means...

the only difference is that Grims wasn't as successful.

All because apparently thousands of years ago his family got it's ass kicked by an ancient robot.

The Castle basically was Doma too... FF6 was just a world of city states... like most Final Fantasy games.

Considering all the people in the game it probably had like... near a tenth of the worlds population.<g 



Final-Fan on 13 April 2008
twesterm said:
Words Of Wisdom said:
twesterm said:
Words Of Wisdom said:
twesterm said:
The game has quite possible the best villain ever.
If you're referring to Kefka, I actually think he was one of the worst parts of Final Fantasy VI because he was a walking cliche with zero character depth.
Villains don't always need a lot of depth to be scary. Kefka is just pure evil (Evil doesn't need a purpose, evil is its own purpose) and he's one of the few villains that you see go from lackey to godhood in the timespan of the game.

Sure, a villain who massacres a church audience because he's upset God took away his son or a villain that slaughters a family and rapes the daughter because he thought they were meant to be are both pretty scary but I'm much more afraid of the person that kills someone because it's Tuesday.
Scary != Good villain.

Good villains need a lot to be good villains IMO. I see several important characteristics...
--Backstory - A good villain should have a history that makes the villain interesting as a character and not just as a bump in the road for our heroes. Without a backstory, a villain is no more interesting than the faceless thug we killed on level 5 in a random battle.
--Motivation - I really like to know what makes the enemy tick. Why are they doing what they're doing?
--Actions - What actions define the villain?
--Ire level - Can the villain make the player genuinely angry? Is killing/stopping the villain something that the game makes the players look forward to?
--Personality - What is the villain like? What are her quirks? Her habits?

I'm sure there are more but those are a few off the top of my head. Let's look at Kefka along those dimensions...
--Backstory - What was Kefka's backstory again? Lackey to Gestahl and...? I got nothing. Considering I replayed FF6 last month, this is depressing.
--Motivation - He wanted to conquer the world or destroy the world simply because. Yeah, he fails motivation too.
--Actions - Appear, spout one-liner, do evil thing, laugh maniacally, leave. That was almost all he ever did. He was true to form. He'll at least get a 50% for consistency.
--Ire level - The closest I ever got to disliking Kefka was for killing Leo but then I realized that Leo had maybe 5 scenes in the entire game and I didn't care about him at all. Kefka can get a 60% for one noteworthy act.
--Personality - He didn't have one. Being the cliche, stereotypical evil baddie was the level of depth for Kefka. He fails this too.

If you want to see a truly awesome villain, look at Jon Irenicus from Baldur's Gate 2. He was on a whole other level and he craps on just about every villain ever dreamt up. He's one of the epitomes of a great villain IMO.
Backstory - He was a genetic experiment gone bad. The expirements fucked with his head and made him bat-shit insane. Also, he has that evil for the sake of being evil. Someone going on a rampage because they don't like Mondays may not be scary to you, but it's pretty frightening to me. Difference of opinion I suppose.

Motivation - Part 1 -- gain power. Part 2 -- create a monument to nothing. Motivation doesn't have to be overly complex to be good, sometimes simple works just as well.

Actions - Well lets see. He poisoned an entire nation because he was impatient. He seriously fucked with Celes and all her trust issues. He more or less ended a race (espers). He back stabbed his boss. He destroyed and sucked the life out of the world. He reshaped the world. It took 13, not three, people to bring him down. He killed general Leo. The list goes on.

Ire Level - look above, you can have him for just about any of those.

Personality - True, not much personality other than being a psycho clown but like I said, he didn't need it.
--Backstory:  the way I see it, he was just the Emporer's tool for the first part of the game.  Your enemy was the Empire.  It wasn't until later that we saw Kefka as the true nemesis, and by then he had all the "backstory" we needed in the parts of the game we'd already played.  
--Motivation:  I don't often quote movie trailers, but "some people just want to watch the world burn".  Kefka was completely loony-tunes; does his goal really have to make sense to us, or does it just have to be internally consistent with who he is? 
--Actions:  Well, apparently he's a big fan of backstabbing.  He likes to watch people die, and he likes to be the one who caused it.  Especially if the death is painful.  In his spare time he just likes to fuck with people.  ("There's SAND on my boots!")  He spends most of his on-screen time causing havoc, and he's not the type to conceal his amusement at it all. 
--Ire level:  If you don't care about any of the people Kefka wronged and murdered, well, I guess you just don't care about anyone in the whole damn game.  Don't blame Kefka for not trying. 
--Personality:  Does the Joker in Batman have a personality? 

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fagarcia75 on 13 April 2008

tie between Earthbound, FFVI, Chrono Trigger, Secret of Evermore, and Mario RPG!

Too hard to choose.