By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Gaming Discussion - Final Fantasy VI Vs Chrono Trigger:- Whos the king of SNES RPGs?

Kasz216 said:
Words Of Wisdom said:
twesterm said:

Backstory - He was a genetic experiment gone bad. The expirements fucked with his head and made him bat-shit insane. Also, he has that evil for the sake of being evil. Someone going on a rampage because they don't like Mondays may not be scary to you, but it's pretty frightening to me. Difference of opinion I suppose.

Motivation - Part 1 -- gain power. Part 2 -- create a monument to nothing. Motivation doesn't have to be overly complex to be good, sometimes simple works just as well.

Actions - Well lets see. He poisoned an entire nation because he was impatient. He seriously fucked with Celes and all her trust issues. He more or less ended a race (espers). He back stabbed his boss. He destroyed and sucked the life out of the world. He reshaped the world. It took 13, not three, people to bring him down. He killed general Leo. The list goes on.

Ire Level - look above, you can have him for just about any of those.

Personality - True, not much personality other than being a psycho clown but like I said, he didn't need it.


Backstory - Where was the genetic experiment thing explained? Maybe I missed that part.

Motivation - Except that simple in this case hurts Kefka because he already feels like a two-dimensional character with no depth.

Actions - He didn't poison a nation, he poisoned a castle's population. All he did with Celes was the same thing he did to Gestahl, backstab her. No frills there. I already gave props to nearly destroying the world. That is kind of worth noting. ^_~ The number of people in your party doesn't matter. If it did Suikoden games would have the most noteworthy villains of all considering you get well over 60 characters. Leo was just another person Kefka betrayed.*

*As a side note, you'd think with Kefka betraying everyone one after another that someone would catch on to the fact that he's an evil maniacal clown with a tendency to backstab but I guess not.

Ire level - Still, none of those things made me as a player angry. In playing SRW:OG2, the final showdown with a character named "Archibald Grims" was one of the most satisfying encounters I've had in an RPG. Sending that bastard to the grave was long overdue. Kefka's finale was kind of meh by comparison. Even Idura of Lufia 2 managed to managed to arise more ire than Kefka and he was just a side villain.

Personality - Psycho clown. Funny. ^_^


Still, to each their own. If you still want to disagree, I'm okay with agreeing to disagree.


But Archibald Grims and Kefka were like... the same character.

Except Grims didn't have a cool laugh. Grims had even less motivation.

He killed someones family, then showed up acting like a dick by randomly hurting and killing people, backstabbing people left and right and trying to win by unethical means...

the only difference is that Grims wasn't as successful.

All because apparently thousands of years ago his family got it's ass kicked by an ancient robot.

The Castle basically was Doma too... FF6 was just a world of city states... like most Final Fantasy games.

Considering all the people in the game it probably had like... near a tenth of the worlds population.


 I did forget to mention that technically Kefka did win at some point in the game.  Not won a battle, but he actually won.  You can't say that about too many video game villains.



Around the Network
Kasz216 said:

But Archibald Grims and Kefka were like... the same character.

Except Grims didn't have a cool laugh. Grims had even less motivation.

He killed someones family, then showed up acting like a dick by randomly hurting and killing people, backstabbing people left and right and trying to win by unethical means...

the only difference is that Grims wasn't as successful.

All because apparently thousands of years ago his family got it's ass kicked by an ancient robot.

The Castle basically was Doma too... FF6 was just a world of city states... like most Final Fantasy games.

Considering all the people in the game it probably had like... near a tenth of the worlds population.


Grims did have a maniacal laugh though! 

He also did far more than just kill Cattleya.  If you play through SRW:OG2 and take the Earth Cradle route in the final branch, it explains quite a bit about Grims you don't normally learn about.  Even outside of that branch, Grims gets featured a lot throughout the game along with Yuuki and Carla.  You actually get to see what kind of person he is in and out of battle as well as what motivates him.  You don't get that with Kefka.  You just get more one-liners and stupid laughter.



BringBackChrono said:

When it comes to RPGs,no other platform had it as good as SNES(PS one is the closest,i guess)

And any list of SNES ,or all time great game lists isnt complete without these two squaresoft masterpieces

Its not the first time this comparison is made, neither the last, and i know its difficult to choose which but choose we'll have to, for this thread's sake

and my vote goes to chrono trigger. great story line, innovative combo system in combat, character development which hasnt been bettered yet, and amazing graphics for its time

Oh and also multiple endings which makes a replay necessary.

 


FF IV is the king of SNES RPGs.  That thing hit like dynamite, so new and expansive compared to what the US market had seen before.

Cecil, Kain, Rosa, Rydia, Edge, Golbez, Cid, Yang, Palom & Porom, Edward (spoony bard), Tellah, yeah! 



Final-Fan said:
--Backstory:  the way I see it, he was just the Emporer's tool for the first part of the game.  Your enemy was the Empire.  It wasn't until later that we saw Kefka as the true nemesis, and by then he had all the "backstory" we needed in the parts of the game we'd already played.  
--Motivation:  I don't often quote movie trailers, but "some people just want to watch the world burn".  Kefka was completely loony-tunes; does his goal really have to make sense to us, or does it just have to be internally consistent with who he is? 
--Actions:  Well, apparently he's a big fan of backstabbing.  He likes to watch people die, and he likes to be the one who caused it.  Especially if the death is painful.  In his spare time he just likes to fuck with people.  ("There's SAND on my boots!")  He spends most of his on-screen time causing havoc, and he's not the type to conceal his amusement at it all. 
--Ire level:  If you don't care about any of the people Kefka wronged and murdered, well, I guess you just don't care about anyone in the whole damn game.  Don't blame Kefka for not trying. 
--Personality:  Does the Joker in Batman have a personality? 

If by "all the backstory we needed" you mean none of it then yes I agree.  In the beginning of the game, he's just a high ranking evil jerk who works for the Empire.  In the second half of the game, you see even less of him than the first part except for where he kills Leo.  No development at all really.  The closest you'll find are the end of WoB and the death of Leo.

Again, the excuse that he's "just evil" is a poor one.  When we're talking about random baddie number 52, "just evil" is fine because it's a speedbump in the story.  When we're talking about the BBEG of the game, "just evil" doesn't cut it IMO.

His actions are amazingly predictable.  Like I said:  Appear, one-liner, evil action, maniacal laughter, disappear.  Rinse and repeat.

I'm sorry, Kefka's greatest accomplishments in this area were Cyan's family (which only really gets hammered if you do the extra quests for Cyan) and Leo (who the game never really makes you care about anyway).

And yeah, the Joker in Batman has a personality.  I watched the old Batman cartoons that showed how he became the Joker which made him a lot more interesting as a villain.  Actually, until I saw those I had never liked him...



twesterm said:

 I did forget to mention that technically Kefka did win at some point in the game.  Not won a battle, but he actually won.  You can't say that about too many video game villains.


How did he win?  As far as I saw his original plan screwed up, he improvised, and almost destroyed the world.



Around the Network

Chrono Trigger.

But FFVI is the best Final Fantasy in my opinion.



[2:08:58 am] Moongoddess256: being asian makes you naturally good at ddr
[2:09:22 am] gnizmo: its a weird genetic thing
[2:09:30 am] gnizmo: goes back to hunting giant crabs in feudal Japan

konnichiwa said:
FFVI

And I never understand why people love the opera scene =/.

 I still have a save file on my SNES cartridge right before the opera scene.  And I have both the Tokyo Philharmonic Orchestra performing the opera as part of their Orchestral Game Soundtracks and I have the other FF6 soundtrack, Grand Finale, with "Aria Di Mezzo Caratter" of the opera performed on it.  So damn good.

Mwahahaha!!!



Words Of Wisdom said:
Final-Fan said:
--Backstory:  the way I see it, he was just the Emporer's tool for the first part of the game.  Your enemy was the Empire.  It wasn't until later that we saw Kefka as the true nemesis, and by then he had all the "backstory" we needed in the parts of the game we'd already played.
--Motivation:  I don't often quote movie trailers, but "some people just want to watch the world burn".  Kefka was completely loony-tunes; does his goal really have to make sense to us, or does it just have to be internally consistent with who he is?
--Actions:  Well, apparently he's a big fan of backstabbing.  He likes to watch people die, and he likes to be the one who caused it.  Especially if the death is painful.  In his spare time he just likes to fuck with people.  ("There's SAND on my boots!")  He spends most of his on-screen time causing havoc, and he's not the type to conceal his amusement at it all.
--Ire level:  If you don't care about any of the people Kefka wronged and murdered, well, I guess you just don't care about anyone in the whole damn game.  Don't blame Kefka for not trying.
--Personality:  Does the Joker in Batman have a personality?
If by "all the backstory we needed" you mean none of it then yes I agree.  In the beginning of the game, he's just a high ranking evil jerk who works for the Empire.  In the second half of the game, you see even less of him than the first part except for where he kills Leo.  No development at all really.  The closest you'll find are the end of WoB and the death of Leo.

Again, the excuse that he's "just evil" is a poor one.  When we're talking about random baddie number 52, "just evil" is fine because it's a speedbump in the story.  When we're talking about the BBEG of the game, "just evil" doesn't cut it IMO.

His actions are amazingly predictable. Like I said:  Appear, one-liner, evil action, maniacal laughter, disappear.  Rinse and repeat.

I'm sorry, Kefka's greatest accomplishments in this area were Cyan's family (which only really gets hammered if you do the extra quests for Cyan) and Leo (who the game never really makes you care about anyway).

And yeah, the Joker in Batman has a personality.  I watched the old Batman cartoons that showed how he became the Joker which made him a lot more interesting as a villain.  Actually, until I saw those I had never liked him...
The reason I put "backstory" into quotes is that it's not actually backstory, but by the time we see him as the game's primary baddie we have already seen a lot of him; we have that history of him, even if we don't know much from the time before the opening credits.  He isn't as developed as Terra or Cyan or Relm or a lot of the other characters but there is development, or at least advancement.

I get the feeling you won't be happy until you see an outline of how he got from (presumably) normal baby to fucking psycho. I actually misspoke earlier; when I played through the game it didn't seem to me that he started out as "completely loony tunes".  It seemed to me that he started out as a power-hungry sadist, somewhat insane but not unable to function in society (given that the society gave him an outlet for his homicidal tendencies), progressing to more like the Joker, unable to contain his lust for carnage, and finally getting to live out his awful dreams with the powers of a god.  Unless I'm misremembering (and you've replayed the game a lot more recently than I have) there's not ZERO character development.

By the way, what does BBEG mean?  Sorry if you mentioned it earlier but I just skimmed all your posts in this thread and didn't spot it offhand.

One-liners?  Are you sure you're not exaggerating?  I remember extensive dialogue.  He talks a lot about himself and his plans, even if it's pretty much monomaniacal rants about destroying people or things (and, eventually, about destroying everyone and everything).

I'm sorry, please make up your mind on whether optional quests are valid story elements.  And didn't you say he is the one who is responsible for the World of Ruin?  Every instance you see of suffering and hardship as a result of that planetary disaster (and almost all the places you run into are to some degree devastated) is a result of his actions.

Kefka has more character development in the course of the game IMO than the Joker gets, although it's been a decade since I watched BTAS extensively and I never read the comics.  Sure, we get more true backstory on the Joker, detailing his past and "origin", but after he shows up as the Joker how much does he really change?  At all?

By the way, here's some info on the subject of Kefka's pre-game life:
Born to unknown parentage, Kefka was abandoned at birth. Raised in an orphanage in Thamasa, Kefka was beaten severely by the orphanage head, and developed a taciturn personality. Eventually he left Thamasa for Vector.

Graduating at the top of his class from the imperial academy, Kefka became the apprentice of Cid del Norte Márquez, and underwent an infusion that gave him the ability to use magic. Though it had no immediate side effects, it lead to the gradual degeneration of Kefka's sanity.

At the age of 23, Kefka was appointed commander of the magitek knights. In the following years, he took an interest in the recently orphaned daughter of an Imperial soldier and a Tzen female aristocrat, Celes Chere. Kefka used his political pull to make sure that Celes was brought up a magitek knight. Kefka political ascension culminated when at age 31, he was appointed to the position of Imperial Prime Minister. Kefka's reign, however, would be short-lived. At a banquet celebrating the appointment of his protégé Celes Chere to Rear Admiral, Kefka cracked. The magitek infusion from years prior finally manifested itself.

Kefka showed marked change in behavior; once a shy, reserved man, Kefka began dressing in garish robes, wearing makeup, and playing with dolls; his once keen strategic mind deteriorated, and all that was left was a thirst for death and destruction. Kefka was promptly removed from military duty. Still feeling indebted to him for his years of service, and appreciating his loyalty, Gestahl appointed Kefka to the position of Court Mage.
http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Kefka_Palazzo

Don't ask me how much of that is revealed in the game itself, because I have almost no idea.  But I believe we were informed that Magitek infusion was known to have side effects including insanity and that Kefka was a recipient of Magitek infusion.

Do you like Kefka more now that you know all about his past?

Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The old smileys: ; - ) : - ) : - ( : - P : - D : - # ( c ) ( k ) ( y ) If anyone knows the shortcut for , let me know!
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom! 

Words Of Wisdom said:
Final-Fan said:
--Backstory: the way I see it, he was just the Emporer's tool for the first part of the game. Your enemy was the Empire. It wasn't until later that we saw Kefka as the true nemesis, and by then he had all the "backstory" we needed in the parts of the game we'd already played.
--Motivation: I don't often quote movie trailers, but "some people just want to watch the world burn". Kefka was completely loony-tunes; does his goal really have to make sense to us, or does it just have to be internally consistent with who he is?
--Actions: Well, apparently he's a big fan of backstabbing. He likes to watch people die, and he likes to be the one who caused it. Especially if the death is painful. In his spare time he just likes to fuck with people. ("There's SAND on my boots!") He spends most of his on-screen time causing havoc, and he's not the type to conceal his amusement at it all.
--Ire level: If you don't care about any of the people Kefka wronged and murdered, well, I guess you just don't care about anyone in the whole damn game. Don't blame Kefka for not trying.
--Personality: Does the Joker in Batman have a personality?

If by "all the backstory we needed" you mean none of it then yes I agree. In the beginning of the game, he's just a high ranking evil jerk who works for the Empire. In the second half of the game, you see even less of him than the first part except for where he kills Leo. No development at all really. The closest you'll find are the end of WoB and the death of Leo.

Again, the excuse that he's "just evil" is a poor one. When we're talking about random baddie number 52, "just evil" is fine because it's a speedbump in the story. When we're talking about the BBEG of the game, "just evil" doesn't cut it IMO.

His actions are amazingly predictable. Like I said: Appear, one-liner, evil action, maniacal laughter, disappear. Rinse and repeat.

I'm sorry, Kefka's greatest accomplishments in this area were Cyan's family (which only really gets hammered if you do the extra quests for Cyan) and Leo (who the game never really makes you care about anyway).

And yeah, the Joker in Batman has a personality. I watched the old Batman cartoons that showed how he became the Joker which made him a lot more interesting as a villain. Actually, until I saw those I had never liked him...

 So, for you, Darth Vader was a lame villain until episode 1,2, and 3 came out?  

 



Crusty VGchartz old timer who sporadically returns & posts. Let's debate nebulous shit and expand our perpectives. Or whatever.

well chrono trigger is the king of all rpgs ever created and most likely ever to come.

next on snes would be secret of mana

and then ff6