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Forums - Gaming Discussion - DF: In Theory: Could Sony produce a PS4 Switch-style console hybrid?

I definitely believe it would be possible by late 2019. If I'm not mistaken, AMD is releasing the successor to Raven Ridge in 2019, their mobile APU line. You'd be looking at a low power APU (the current Raven Ridge APU's range between 12 and 25 watts) with Ryzen 2 CPU cores and Navi GPU cores. Then all Sony would have to do is underclock it or disable some cores to reduce power consumption so they could use desktop GDDR5 instead of LPDDR4, and make it larger than Switch so it could have a bigger battery, and they'd have a system comfortably able to play PS4's library (after patching) at reduced resolutions with good battery life.

Last edited by shikamaru317 - on 13 May 2018

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Azuren said:
sc94597 said:

This statement (as it is) is false. 

If you modified your statement with one word, it might be true. 

Taking a current gen game and dialing it back to last gen doesn't mean it's running current gen.

The problem is that the terms "current gen" and "last gen" are fairly arbitrary. In addition, using the scaling down of certain games to have it run and the inability of the hardware to run certain games does not mean it is "last gen". By the token of your argument, a game like Doom is not current-gen on a system like the base PS4 because it can run at much higher resolutions and with better graphical effects on a mid-to-high end gaming PC. Beyond this, what about the many games that are not really graphically intensive but released only on recent consoles? Are they last-gen as well?

Also, how could you be sure that Doom and Wolfenstein II would run on a last-gen system. The Switch's raw power in handheld mode might be comparable to that of a last-gen stationary system, but its GPU architecture is fairly modern and matches the features on the current-gen stationary systems. Engines that rely on software APIs base around the newer hardware features might not scale to PS3 and Xbox 360 but might do so on Switch because the GPU has the necessary features for the engine to run.



Aeolus451 said:
sc94597 said:

This statement (as it is) is false. 

-snip-

-snip-

If you modified your statement with one word, it might be true. 

It is true. Where are the majority of 3rd party games? No Far Cry 5? Where are the games? Down graded ports of a handful of games don't really count for much.

Azuren said:
sc94597 said:

This statement (as it is) is false. 

-snip-

-snip-

If you modified your statement with one word, it might be true. 

Taking a current gen game and dialing it back to last gen doesn't mean it's running current gen.

 

Still the same game where it matters most.



Never going to handle.

Sony aren't going back to the handheld market, and they are especially not going to release an underpowered console just to to make it hybrid.



I would love to have portable PS4. Most of my gaming has been done on portable systems (right now Switch, before that it was 3DS + Vita), because I love the convenience and realistically I only have enough time to game on portables. With that being said, I don't think the PS4's architecture would really scale down well into something portable, not even in the future as process nodes shrink (look at Switch, it is using a completely different architecture as opposed to taking what was in the Xbox 360 and PS3 and trying to shrink it). However, we could see new SOC architectures in the future that are designed for mobility but are as powerful as a base PS4 (in fact, it is mostly a matter of "when" as opposed to an "if"; the Switch in handheld mode is about as powerful as PS3 and Xbox 360 and its SOC came out about 10 years after those systems were released).

Thus, the problem here is not the hardware getting there but rather it has to do with the software. Having a portable system that is on par with a PS4 but not based on the PS4's architecture means that it would likely not be software compatible with it. Thus, the system would need to build a large enough base and/or Sony would need to make the porting process so convenient (not to mention bring first-party PS4 games themselves) that devs would be convinced to port their games over.



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shikamaru317 said:

I definitely believe it would be possible by late 2019. If I'm not mistaken, AMD is releasing the successor to Raven Ridge in 2019, their mobile APU line. You'd be looking at a low power APU (the current Raven Ridge APU's range between 12 and 25 watts) with Ryzen 2 CPU cores and Navi GPU cores. Then all Sony would have to do is underclock it or disable some cores to reduce power consumption so they could use desktop GDDR5 instead of LPDDR4, and make it larger than Switch so it could have a bigger battery, and they'd have a system comfortably able to play PS4's library (after patching) at reduced resolutions with good battery life.

Apparently very few can see Raven Ridge, and even some who do refuse to acknowledge its exsistance. I was very shocked that Mr. Leadbetter did not bring up this possability, and even more so when he claimed AMD lacks the core technology to make it happen. 

I still think Sony and AMD could take what has been learned over the last 6+ years, and significantly reduce the power consumption on a 7nm revision to the current PS4 APU. They have plenty of Memory choices that they could make to meet the needs of a PS4 at much lower energy draw. This would likely be the harder road, and may not pay off as much in the end, depending on where they are taking PS4, and when PS5 is coming out.

So, what is the other option? Exactly what you are talking about. Make a custom 7nm Ryzen Gen 2/Navi based chip, use either GDDR6 or HBM2. Now you have a device that blows the PS4 out of the water in the CPU department, and should be able to best it in the GPU department by quite a bit, all while falling in that ~10 watt teritory.

Now in theory, Sony should be making PS5 backwards compatible with PS4. If they are doing this and PS5 uses a Ryzen Gen 2/Navi based chipset, then they would already be working on making Ryzen Gen 2/Navi capable of running PS4 code without any modifications needed. Taking things even further, if they went this direction, then the PS Mobile device, should be ready to run PS5 titles at lower res/ lower frame rate, in very much the same way PS4 and PS4 Pro works right now. Effectively making it more of a PS5 Portable. 

That is what I see looking off into the Road maps, and what technologies will be available by the end of 2019. Will Sony or Microsoft take a stab at it? Probably not, but I really hope they do. I think the market would go absolutely crazy at the idea of having Call of Duty, Battlefield, Grand Theft Auto, Assasin's Creed, Gran Turismo, Uncharted, The Last of Us, Halo, Gears, and Fozra/Horion all available on the go, with no compromise. But, that's just my thought's. At any rate, I look forward to what 7nm fabrication brings us, and where things go with Sony and Microsoft, whether it is Home, Mobile, both, or otherwise. It's all about gaming first hardware, and that is what I love.



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nemo37 said:
Hiku said:

Just want to point out that I think PS4 has had one price drop, rather than multiple. Aside from deals here and there.
In Sep 2015 it dropped to ¥34,980 in Japan. The RPP for the main PS4 SKU on Amazon Jp is still ¥34,000 almost 3 years later.

And in the west, the Last of Us bundle for a standard 500GB PS4 is $400.

PS4 has had two price drops in the US. In late 2015, it received a $50 price cut (price reduced to $349) and with the introduction of PS4 Slim the price was further dropped to $299. In addition, the non-permanenet deals (such as the $200 Slim during November of 2017; $250 Star Wars bundle of December of 2017) all helped to substantially increase sales for the system in those respective periods.

As for Japan, it is true that the last official major price cut for the stand alone system was in 2015 which reduced the price to ¥34,000. However, since the Switch launch most retailers (at least online going by Bic, Amazon, and Yodobashi) have been selling the PS4 at the RRP for the Switch (¥32,378), with some retailers (namely Amazon) going lower. For example, the Amazon listing you posted has the price at ¥34,000, but upon clicking the listing, the actual price is listed as ¥ 30,895 which was already down from ¥32,378 (which is odd considering the system is out of stock).

I guess that Last of Us bundle is so expensive because it's rare these days, or something. The listings I saw were mainly for used models, and that was the only new unit I found. But upon searching further I found a PS4 with a bundled game for $350, so you're right.

As for Japan, yeah I saw that they have a deal on PS4 that's a bit lower, but the RRP is still there, just strickened through.
Pretty odd that they've only had one price drop in Japan, and two in the US.

Last edited by Hiku - on 13 May 2018

The question is will Sony's first party accept it?, they can surely produce it but teams like ND, likes to work on much more graphic capable system, I doubt that



Hiku said:
nemo37 said:

PS4 has had two price drops in the US. In late 2015, it received a $50 price cut (price reduced to $349) and with the introduction of PS4 Slim the price was further dropped to $299. In addition, the non-permanenet deals (such as the $200 Slim during November of 2017; $250 Star Wars bundle of December of 2017) all helped to substantially increase sales for the system in those respective periods.

As for Japan, it is true that the last official major price cut for the stand alone system was in 2015 which reduced the price to ¥34,000. However, since the Switch launch most retailers (at least online going by Bic, Amazon, and Yodobashi) have been selling the PS4 at the RRP for the Switch (¥32,378), with some retailers (namely Amazon) going lower. For example, the Amazon listing you posted has the price at ¥34,000, but upon clicking the listing, the actual price is listed as ¥ 30,895 which was already down from ¥32,378 (which is odd considering the system is out of stock).

I guess that Last of Us bundle is so expensive because it's rare these days, or something. The listings I saw were mainly for used models, and that was the only new unit I found. But upon searching further I found a PS4 with a bundled game for $350, so you're right.

As for Japan, yeah I saw that they have a deal on PS4 that's a bit lower, but the RRP is still there, just strickened through.
Pretty odd that they've only had one price drop in Japan, and two in the US.

The first price cut in both Japan and US coincided with each other, so it is odd nothing happened in Japan with regards to the price in Japan with the launch of the Slim. 

 

Although the strangest thing by far in Japan is why retailers are selling PS4 below RRP when the system is currently supply constrained. Typically, retailers sell above RRP when demand is higher than supply. My only guess is that the retailers are competing with each other for orders.



I've given up on portable. I hope SONY has learned it's lesson and continues to do so too.



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