Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Dragon Quest XI for Switch delay due UE4, game based on PS4 version of game, why was announced for Switch so early

fatslob-:O said:
Hiku said:

Nowhere did I say that it's the fans responsibility to announce release dates.
I said it's not unreasonable to expect a port that was said to be in development at least 6 months before the PS4 release, to be released sooner than 2019.

If you want to claim that those are unreasonable expectations, give us examples of where announced ports before a game released have taken that long before. I can't think of a single one. And if it has ever happened, it would be the exception rather than the rule.

@Bold That's just your implication... 

And the the fans expectations of a port is irrelevant in either case, that should be the developers since their one's making the game ... (it's not about what the fans expect, it's about what the developers expect) 

Basically proves that a Switch version was NOT confirmed alongside the PS4/3DS version at the same date so you had to move goal posts ...  

@Bold Let's not strawman.
And I never said that it was confirmed alongside the PS3/3DS version... In my very first response to you I specifically said that it was confirmed in December 2016. I even gave you a link...
So you've either making up a goalpost, or confused me with someone else.
Either way, all the more reason to just stick to commenting on what I actually said. Not what you think I implied.

You said, and I quote:

fatslob-:O said:
The people who wanted it to release at the same date as the Western release got arrogant

And I replied with "I don't think it was unreasonable for people at the time to expect a Switch port before 2019/2020."

How are people are arrogant for thinking it wouldn't release significantly later than Sep 2018, when it was confirmed to be in development for Switch from at least Dec 2016?
What examples can you give us where comparable situations have occurred before?

Because if people are arrogant to think otherwise, it must have happened many time, right?

Last edited by Hiku - on 15 April 2018

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Hiku said:

@Bold That's your strawman.
And I never said that it was confirmed alongside the PS3/3DS version... I specifically said that it was confirmed in December 2016...
I even gave you a link...
Now you're just pretending to make up imaginary goalposts. Or you're confusing me with someone else.
Let's stick to commenting on what I actually said. Not what you think I implied. Because that's not working out too great for you so far.

My response at the last line of my previous post wasn't even meant for you so it's probably you who's getting confused so why don't you slow down and read the posts you're going to respond ? 

Not once did I ever say it was the "fans responsibility to announce release dates" so it's you who's making a strawman argument ... 

Yes, let's stick to what you commented because it's pretty clear that you didn't read my post since you accused me of making a strawman only to ironically backfire ... 

Hiku said:

I replied with "I don't think it was unreasonable for people at the time to expect a Switch port before 2019/2020."

How are people are arrogant for thinking it wouldn't release significantly later than Sep 2018, when it was confirmed to be in development for Switch from at least Dec 2016?
What examples can you give us where comparable situations have occurred?

Because if people are arrogant to think otherwise, it must have happened many time, right?

That is arrogance and frankly precedent doesn't matter so whether there are comparable situations or not is irrelevant and the release date doesn't concern the fans, it concerns the developer itself ... 

In this case the potential customers arrogance comes from their lack sensibilities, not due to expectations based on precedence ... 



fatslob-:O said:
Hiku said:

@Bold That's your strawman.
And I never said that it was confirmed alongside the PS3/3DS version... I specifically said that it was confirmed in December 2016...
I even gave you a link...
Now you're just pretending to make up imaginary goalposts. Or you're confusing me with someone else.
Let's stick to commenting on what I actually said. Not what you think I implied. Because that's not working out too great for you so far.

My response at the last line of my previous post wasn't even meant for you so it's probably you who's getting confused so why don't you slow down and read the posts you're going to respond ?

I see that the last line not being directed at me. That was my mistake. Though responding to an extra line that slipped into the post doesn't suggest I didn't read your post. It suggests I read more than your reply to me. There's a difference.
But while ignoring to answer my question you instead focused on what you claim to think I was implying. That's strawmanning.
And now you appear to be continuing that behaviour with this:

fatslob-:O said:
Not once did I ever say it was the "fans responsibility to announce release dates" so it's you who's making a strawman argument ... 

Yes, let's stick to what you commented because it's pretty clear that you didn't read my post since you accused me of making a strawman only to ironically backfire ...

I'm pretty sure this is you saying the highlighted, no? This person has your username at least.



Now please explain how my response to something you brought up, was in any way strawmanning?

Oh and needless to say, I didn't say that you said "fans responsibility to announce release dates". I said that I didn't. Because you brought it up, as if it's somehow a counterpoint to anything I said. It was not. And then you claimed it was my "implication".

fatslob-:O said:
That is arrogance and frankly precedent doesn't matter so whether there are comparable situations or not is irrelevant and the release date doesn't concern the fans, it concerns the developer itself ... 

In this case the potential customers arrogance comes from their lack sensibilities, not due to expectations based on precedence ...

I'm giving you a chance to explain why it's arrogance.
Presenting previous examples was just an example of how this could be done. You're free to explain it any way you want. So why is it arrogant, and not sensible to expect the port to be released by Sep 2018?

Last edited by Hiku - on 15 April 2018

Sometimes porting is harder than it seems. Let's expect that when it releases on Switch it is a good version.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Hiku said:

I'm pretty sure this is you saying the highlighted, no? This person has your username at least.

*snip* 

Now please explain how my response to something you brought up, was in any way strawmanning?

Oh and needless to say, I didn't say that you said "fans responsibility to announce release dates". I said that I didn't. Because you brought it up, as if it's somehow a counterpoint to anything I said. And it was not.

Which doesn't change my argument at hand that it is NOT the fans expectation for a release date like I initially thought ... 

Hiku said:

I'm giving you a chance to explain why it's arrogance.
Presenting previous examples was just an example of how this could be done. You're free to explain it any way you want. So why is it arrogant, and not sensible to expect the port to be released by Sep 2018?

The fans are not the one's making the game therefore it rests solely on the developers when THEY are one's expecting a release date ... 

People also comparing DQXI port compared to other works is another evidence of their arrogance when they're DIFFERENT games with varying technical challenges ... 

On a side note, Wyrdness made a laughable proposition about how Doom/W2 is MORE demanding than DQXI ... (he forgot to realize that framerate wasn't the only thing cut compared to those games, they cut the resolution from 1080p to 900p) 

Last edited by fatslob-:O - on 15 April 2018

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fatslob-:O said: 
Miyamotoo said:

Lol, they basically said they announce game for NX even before we had Switch name, so yeah, it was annuced too early, and they later basicly said that all version will be released in same time.

http://adria.ign.com/dragon-quest-xi/7474/news/dragon-quest-11-potvrden-za-nintendo-nx

Basically proves that a Switch version was NOT confirmed alongside the PS4/3DS version at the same date so you had to move goal posts ...  

No you are one that moving goal posts, tell me why SE even mentione NX version of game back in 2015. when they announced game for first time, why year later (in 2016) they said that NX game will be released in same time with 3DS and PS4 versions of games!?

Masahiro Sakurai: Well then, I would like to ask about each of your new games. First, Dragon Quest XI. The 11th installment in the series will be released simultaneously on Nintendo 3DS and PlayStation 4, and including NX it’s coming out on three platforms, right?

Yuji Horii: That’s right. The use of hardware is different for each system, so it’s quite a challenge.

October, 2016.

 

And with that on mind and going buy your logic "people are arogant" beacuse we still dont know when game will come out on Switch while 3DS version of game is out and we know even release date for PS4 version of game for West release, so yeah Nintendo fans have every right to be angry about SE for this matter, facts talk for itself. And SE is well known for this kind of things, announcing games too early and delaying games constantly, and you try spin this one like this isnt they fault.

Last edited by Miyamotoo - on 16 April 2018

Miyamotoo said:

No you are one that moving goal posts, tell me why SE even mentione NX version of game back in 2015. when they announced game for first time, why year later (in 2016) they said that NX game will be released in same time with 3DS and PS4 versions of games!?

Masahiro Sakurai: Well then, I would like to ask about each of your new games. First, Dragon Quest XI. The 11th installment in the series will be released simultaneously on Nintendo 3DS and PlayStation 4, and including NX it’s coming out on three platforms, right?

Yuji Horii: That’s right. The use of hardware is different for each system, so it’s quite a challenge.

October, 2016.

 

And with that on mind and going buy your logic "people are arogant" beacuse we still dont know when game will come out on Switch while 3DS version of game is out and we know even release date for PS4 version of game for West release, so yeah Nintendo fans have every right to be angry about SE for this matter, facts talk for itself. And SE is well known for this kind of things, announcing games too early and delaying games constantly, and you try spin this one like this isnt they fault.

Raising Possibility =/= Confirmed but nice try shifting goalposts ... 

Second, the question you showed never implicated that the Switch version will release simultaneously alongside the PS4/3DS version. Just that only the PS4 and 3DS will release simultaneously ... 

And if Nintendo fans don't like the way SE operate then they can go take their BS elsewhere ... (SE can announce the game when the fuck ever they wish)



fatslob-:O said:
Miyamotoo said:

No you are one that moving goal posts, tell me why SE even mentione NX version of game back in 2015. when they announced game for first time, why year later (in 2016) they said that NX game will be released in same time with 3DS and PS4 versions of games!?

Masahiro Sakurai: Well then, I would like to ask about each of your new games. First, Dragon Quest XI. The 11th installment in the series will be released simultaneously on Nintendo 3DS and PlayStation 4, and including NX it’s coming out on three platforms, right?

Yuji Horii: That’s right. The use of hardware is different for each system, so it’s quite a challenge.

October, 2016.

 

And with that on mind and going buy your logic "people are arogant" beacuse we still dont know when game will come out on Switch while 3DS version of game is out and we know even release date for PS4 version of game for West release, so yeah Nintendo fans have every right to be angry about SE for this matter, facts talk for itself. And SE is well known for this kind of things, announcing games too early and delaying games constantly, and you try spin this one like this isnt they fault.

Raising Possibility =/= Confirmed but nice try shifting goalposts ... 

Second, the question you showed never implicated that the Switch version will release simultaneously alongside the PS4/3DS version. Just that only the PS4 and 3DS will release simultaneously ... 

And if Nintendo fans don't like the way SE operate then they can go take their BS elsewhere ... (SE can announce the game when the fuck ever they wish)

Fact is that SE first time mentione NX version of game in 2015. so yeah, way too early. Actually it applies, "The 11th installment in the series will be released simultaneously on Nintendo 3DS and PlayStation 4, and including NX".

Nobady likes how SE operates, and point is simple, Nintendo fans have evre right to be angry about SE for this matter and they are not arrogant for that (actually you are being quite arrogant because you fail to see that and call them arrogant beacuse of that).

Lol, who are you exatly to say "if Nintendo fans don't like the way SE operate then they can go take their BS elsewhere"!? This is perfect thread for valid complainings (they are not BS in any case) for this matter. SE can announce game when ever they want but fans can say what they think about how SE poorly managing things.

Last edited by Miyamotoo - on 16 April 2018

fatslob-:O said:
Miyamotoo said:

No you are one that moving goal posts, tell me why SE even mentione NX version of game back in 2015. when they announced game for first time, why year later (in 2016) they said that NX game will be released in same time with 3DS and PS4 versions of games!?

Masahiro Sakurai: Well then, I would like to ask about each of your new games. First, Dragon Quest XI. The 11th installment in the series will be released simultaneously on Nintendo 3DS and PlayStation 4, and including NX it’s coming out on three platforms, right?

Yuji Horii: That’s right. The use of hardware is different for each system, so it’s quite a challenge.

October, 2016.

 

And with that on mind and going buy your logic "people are arogant" beacuse we still dont know when game will come out on Switch while 3DS version of game is out and we know even release date for PS4 version of game for West release, so yeah Nintendo fans have every right to be angry about SE for this matter, facts talk for itself. And SE is well known for this kind of things, announcing games too early and delaying games constantly, and you try spin this one like this isnt they fault.

And if Nintendo fans don't like the way SE operate then they can go take their BS elsewhere ... (SE can announce the game when the fuck ever they wish)

Do you like being a second-rate customer? I don't. And I have every right to complain, and of course, choose not to give them money when they do treat me like that.

Of course, that will give more credit to the narrative stating that "people don't buy third party games on Nintendo platforms", but oh well. It's definitely more their (3rd parties) loss than Nintendo's.



Wyrdness said:
Hynad said:

You still have nothing?

I never said DQ XI or Doom is more demanding than the other. I pointed out how one have no difficulty reaching 60fps while the other is capped at 30, and then asked YOU to explain why you think one is more demanding than the other. All you had were ad hominem and non answers.  

I explained why I'm saying a game reaching 60 fps the way Doom does on PS4 requires to make compromises to reach that target. I explained that games going for 30fps usually do because their requirements are different from games running with ease at 60fps. If Uncharted 4, for example, could have reached 60fps with every other aspects of its visuals intact, you can be sure Naughty Dog would have gone for that. Are you saying that they are not competent for not having reached that? All the different aspects a game requires don't necessarily fall in line with the requirements from games like Doom. 

None of this is taken out of my ass. 

But you keep at it, without providing anything other than a poor temper.

I explained to you why its more demanding and you never had a response other than to come back and start posting smileys the usual ad hominem accusation is a typical tactic by those who have no rebuttal so instead start trying to perceive everything as a flame/attack I don't throw out subliminal attacks I come out directly with them if that's what you seek hence why I told you if that's what you want just say.

What exactly has ND got to do with DQXI and Doom? This is a typical response you've thrown out a red herring especially when you were going on about one version being worse than another in regards to DQ and I pointed out Doom and such had the same issue as more demanding games and were still able to supply a look at what the game would would be which lead to your fps post where again it was pointed out factors were in play. You adding ND into the mix is just a random attempt to salvage something that's been debunked.

Fact is I've provided information you've just chosen not to acknowledge it in anyway that doesn't give you any ground here because it still harks back to your original argument on SE being shot down that's the only course here.

But you're the one who relied on ad hominem in the first place.

And then you misrepresented what I was saying and my intentions. 

VGP called you out on what you brought forth, and I cemented it by pointing out your claim about the dynamic resolution in place for Doom.

I brought the example of Uncharted 4 to illustrate a point I've been making from the get go. Which is that optimization, contrary to your belief, won't magically bring more horsepower out of the consoles. 

As for DQ XI being more advanced or not, my stance has been that the game is demanding for reasons different from Doom. And it is. More or not is irrelevent. Doom may run on an engine that's tailored made to achieve that game's needs. And it does look amazing for a game targeting and mostly achieving 60fps. Even though, despite what you tried to push, it did so by making obvious compromises. But that really isn't the point why any of this was brought up. The topic is about why the Switch release will come much later than the PS4 version. The struggle they have is due to the current versions of the UE they have that struggle to accommodate their particular needs for the game. Which makes it obvious the game is too demanding for the Switch when using the version of UE they currently have. At least in the form they want to make it for that console. 

You can keep misrepresenting my stance and intentions all you want. I've been saying the same things since my first comment about this.