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Forums - General Discussion - Dragon Ball Super or Dragon Ball GT

 

Which one was better?

Super 59 79.73%
 
GT 15 20.27%
 
Total:74

I liked Gt for its uniqueness, however super was more inline with DBZ as a continuation straight after it ended.



 

 

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Arminillo said:
Hiku said:

1. What do you mean by character assassination? And regarding which characters and in what way? Because for the first arc of GT, aside from Goku and Trunks, every other character from the previous series was practically non existent. And when they were brought back into the story, it was mainly just to be taken over by Baby after one fight. Or aside from Vegeta, putting up rather meaningless attempts at resistance against Omega Shenron. At least the participants in the Tournament of Power were given moments to shine and contributed with something meaningful.

2. Which transformation? Oozaru (Great Ape)? It ran it's course through the original Dragonball, and beginning of Z. Though Super is not over, and it appears the enemy of the upcoming movie has an Oozaru transformation.

1. Videl was lobotomized in Super, Vegeta turned into a wuss, Tien never stopped training yet is a stick now, Goku was almost as bad as Buu in just becoming a force of nature rather than a sentient being with a conscience.

 

2. Super Sayian 3. Basically showed up once and then skipped forever after.

1a) You clearly didn't watch Episodes 73 and 74 where Videl, out of visible irritation and disgust, figuratively castrated a big-shot, ego-inflated actor in front of the entire cast, crew, and press when he tried to make a move on her in front of Gohan and Pan. And then did it again when he tried to sabotage her marriage with photos of Gohan getting kissed by another woman because she trusted Gohan enough to know it was a mistake and had no meaning to it. She's not a hot-head like Chi-Chi or Bulma, but she doesn't need to be in order to make her point. I'll gladly take her over those two, because she's actually reasonable and doesn't throw a tantrum every time things don't go her way. 
1b) Vegeta has become an honorable and proud family man who doesn't fight and get stronger just for himself. Plus, with Cabba and the Saiyans of Universe 6 being introduced, he's actually living up to his title of 'Prince of the Saiyans.' He's come a very long way from being the cold-blooded monster that needed to be stopped at all costs at the beginning of the Saiyan Saga in 'Z'. There were a lot of times when it felt like HE should have been the Main Character of Super. If it wasn't for Android 17 being as awesome as he was in the Tournament of Power, I'd call Vegeta the best character in the entire show.
1c) Tien is still a respectable fighter, but compared to the Saiyans, Androids, Piccolo, who is a Namek, and Frieza, who is... well... Frieza, he's really not all that special. That's not a "Super" thing, that's a "Dragon Ball post-Saiyan Saga" thing.
1d) This is the only one that I actually agree with.

2. When you have two God forms that are much more powerful and can actually do more with (Kaioken), why on Earth would you use Super Saiyan 3. Especially when 1 and 2 are more than enough to do the job against weaker opponents that don't need God or Blue to take care of? And GT kinda did omit a transformation for funsies. Vegeta leapfrogged from 2 all the way to 4 help Goku fight Omega Shenron.



Nymeria said:
Super feels like an actual continuation of Z while GT always had this odd feeling of being disconnected. My signature is one of my favorite moments in Dragonball history, Super gave me the indulgent aspects of action I grew up loving in Z.

I'm not entirely sure what you mean by this. Is it in terms of setting or characters? because if so i'd argue the opposite.

 

Dragon Ball Super has quite few inconsistentcys from Z and at times replays the same ideas and character progression from Z where as GT continues from where Z left off.

 

For example: In Z Krillin was always a bit scared to go up against a guy way stronger than him, but he never backed down. In Super, first thing they have him do is not attempt to hold Beerus off to protect his family and friends and then in the next arc he cowards in fear from guys that he could defeat single-handedly. This is regression of his character from Z where he stood up to Super Buu to protect his family and friends despite his wife, who is more powerful than himself, being there. It happens again later on when Kid Buu goes to other world, this time it's with the implication that if it happens again he won't exist. He didn't back down and stood his ground. To go from that to Super was extremely jarring to me (though I appreciate that TOEI really wants to do something with him) and formed a disconnect between the series.

 

Perhaps the better example is Vegeta, where they basically retcon the final moments of his character arc in Z, this wouldn't be so bad if they hadn't of repeated his character arc from the Cell Saga to the end of the Buu Saga with the final arc of Super. This is where the biggest disconnect happens because they go through Vegeta's entire character step by step and it has pretty much the same result.

Arrogant Vegeta is back and completely full of himself

 

Arrogant Vegeta doesn't want to be a team player and give energy to Goku's attack that might save them from certain doom.

Arragent Vegeta thinks he can save the day and defeat the big bad all by himself/is an idiot.

Arragent Vegeta has a moment with someone he doesn't treat well and realises that he wants to fight for them

 

Vegeta realises he has a family that he needs to fight for and gives a speech about it

 

Vegeta sacrifices himself except not really because he comes back to help.

 

We even get a Vegeta's final stand where he's in base form getting his ass handed to him for the better part of an episode all while going on this speel about Saiyan pride for the 129,846th time in this show, all culminating in Vegeta putting his hopes in Goku because he knows he himself can't do it.

 

That's literally an exact repeat of what we had in Z. GT on the other hand had natural progression with the character. Vegeta mellowed out and got more accustomed to life on Earth, he takes his Daughter out, seems like an actual Dad and he wears regular Earth clothes instead of his armor and spandex. Which is what you would expect of him after Z when he got rid of the armor from his look and just had the spandex. In contrast Super had Vegeta go back to wearing the armor for some reason. I don't even think GT Vegeta makes reference to him wanting to surpass Goku, I think the first time it came up was when Bulma of all people brought it up when she said she was gonna help him get to ss4 and then maybe ss5 (seriously GT?), though I'm not 100% on that, it might've came up before that. Vegeta was even the first one to suggest fusion to defeat omega shenron, instead of basically saying "eewww I don't want to fuse with that smelly kakorot" in Super.

 

Their are other things like the arcs themselves from each show. Dragon Ball Super arcs barring Resurrection F suppose could pretty much take place in their own universe, completely separate from Z and rest Super because nothing from Z or any of the other arcs had any actual influence on anything and the end results didn't add anything. In GT from the very begining, they had all the arcs tie together and finally tied it to Z with Omega Shenron and the Dragon Balls saying that because they overused them throughout DB/Z/GT the negative energy grew and formed omega Shenron. It started with the Dragon Balls and ended with the Dragon Balls. The finale of Super is just a tournament that outside of reviving Frieza for realz this time doesn't tie anything together and has no effect on anything. Goku and Vegeta don't even get  to keep their new power ups and we had characters repeat development they had in Z and already passed.

Super even feels disconnected from itself most times with me half-way through questioning whether the writers were even in the same room or in the same building or in the same country or on the same planet or even in same realities. Seriously, that was something that I said about quite a few episodes when giving my opinions on them.

 

Maybe it's just me, idk, but there's a lot in Super that made it feel disconnected for me and I never felt that way about GT (well except the dark star dragon balls).

Or maybe this was not what you meant, let me know.

Last edited by Shaqazooloo0 - on 27 March 2018

Shaqazooloo0 said: 

Or maybe this was not what you meant, let me know.

I meant the tone of Super has more of that Toriyama feel that Z had in the characters and humor. It wasn't the departure the way GT felt to me back when it came out.



Arminillo said:
GT did not commit character assassination on the majority of its supporting cast.

Right, because they practically weren't there. Everyone knows GT stands for Goku Time.



GT did not omit an entire transformation for funsies.

Which one exactly did Super omit?



GT brought Cell back even though hes "hard to draw"

And Super brought back Frieza, and infinitely more iconic villain.


GT did Android 17 first.

GT also did Android 17 worse.


GT had the better fusion.

Potara Fusion is not only stronger, but less silly. And you wanna talk about character assassination? Gogeta is a fucking joke.


GT aged Trunks and Goten.

How is this a positive or negative? The series take place at different points on their timelines.


GT had new transformations that actually made sense.

"So he's covered in red fur, grows his tail back temporarily, and goes from bite-size to Goku sized?" ||| "Makes sense to me."


I was always of the belief that GT is the SW Prequels of DB. Fantastic idea, bad execution.



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Nymeria said:
Shaqazooloo0 said: 

Or maybe this was not what you meant, let me know.

I meant the tone of Super has more of that Toriyama feel that Z had in the characters and humor. It wasn't the departure the way GT felt to me back when it came out.

Oh ok, sorry for that wall of text then lol.

Last edited by Shaqazooloo0 - on 27 March 2018

Concerning the Goten Trunks thing, even if there was almost no time skip for the beginning of Super, in the series times skips a few times and a few years and they never grew up a bit even if the are like 10-11.

To be fair, Goku looks almost the same when he was 12 as when he was 15, only when he was 18 you could see the difference.

Gohan was the only one that seemed to age accordingly (I'd say he looked too big to be something like 11), and we know Trunks is supposed to get bigger at something like 12 or 13 since we saw him in the future. Goten we know he should get bigger at least by the time of the Uub tournament.

I think that the original DBZ ending is the main cause why the kids didn't get any action in Super, they were supposed to stick to almost normal lives. It's a shame for me since I really liked Goten and Trunks when I was a kid.

I hope that "Super 2" or whatever it's called retakes after the Uub tournament and Goten and Trunks train again like Gohan did in the tournament saga



For me I prefer the 100% Goku Show over pointless character development and screentime leading you to believe a character might do something only for them to be a foot note at best and have Goku Time come into effect and get all the big fights..

If it's gonna be the Goku show I'd rather they be straight forward and make that clear. The last arc had potential with a lot of characters but they dropped the dragon ball on all of them except 17 and Frieza. For most of the tournament Goku Time was in effect and it infuriated me. Leading into the tournament they made it look like it wasn't gonna be Goku Time but 2 episodes in and we had Goku basically soloing a universe and him getting almost all of the big fights, while everybody else was either waiting to get eliminated or for Goku to allow them some screentime. The other arcs aren't as bad as that, but Goku Time still happens quite a bit after Resurrection F

I will say though the final moments with 17 and Frieza almost make up for that.



I'm thinking of re-watching the TOP from beginning to end without the 1/2 week breaks inbetween episodes. I feel it was such an overload of information it'd be nice to re-watch knowing how everything plans out exactly.



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Hiku said:
Shaqazooloo0 said:
For me I prefer the 100% Goku Show over pointless character development and screentime leading you to believe a character might do something only for them to be a foot note at best and have Goku Time come into effect and get all the big fights..

If it's gonna be the Goku show I'd rather they be straight forward and make that clear. The last arc had potential with a lot of characters but they dropped the dragon ball on all of them except 17 and Frieza. For most of the tournament Goku Time was in effect and it infuriated me. Leading into the tournament they made it look like it wasn't gonna be Goku Time but 2 episodes in and we had Goku basically soloing a universe and him getting almost all of the big fights, while everybody else was either waiting to get eliminated or for Goku to allow them some screentime. The other arcs aren't as bad as that, but Goku Time still happens quite a bit after Resurrection F

I will say though the final moments with 17 and Frieza almost make up for that.

Super hasn't always been the Goku show. But do you also prefer when Goku always wins, and always is the MVP? And that whenever a new stronger opponent is introduced, Goku is able to take them down in the span of the same arc?

Because Super starts off with Goku losing to Beerus. And no one else saves the day. He just loses, and that's it.
That's a big difference from previous showdowns where their opponent is always somehow defeated.

When Frieza returns, Goku gets most of the screentime during the fight. And that shouldn't have been the case. But there was never any indication that Goku was more capable of defeating Frieza than Vegeta was. If anything, Goku was portrayed as less competent than Vegeta, by letting himself get defeated by one of Frieza's minions. They both seemed more than capable of taking down Frieza, but both fell victim to Frieza's cheap tactics. Goku was given the finishing hit though, which was a bit disappointing.

For the Goku Black saga, Trunks was undoubtedly the MVP. The story focus was constantly surrounding him. In battle he stepped it up and helped Goku while Vegeta was down for the count. He singlehandedly held off Black and Zamasu for several days while Goku and Vegeta retreated. And after Vegito's fusion wore off, Trunks came in and split Zamasu in half. Aside from Zeno getting the actual finishing touch, it the spotlight was mainly on Trunks. Both in terms of story and combat.

In the Universe 6 Tournament, it was the Goku show though. But at least he didn't win the tournament.

For the tournament of power, they built up both Gohan and Vegeta, hinting at them achieving accomplishments greater than they actually achieved. At first I was disappointed in that. But in hindsight after watching the last episode, having Goku, 17, and especially Frieza working together the way they did, it exceeded my expectations, and was probably more interesting than anything I had in mind.
Even though Goku was involved in most of the major fights, they hammered home the idea of the importance of working together to win.

How was the Universe 6 Tournament the Goku show? Vegeta had the most eliminations. Goku has one victory. Vegeta had 3.