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Forums - Politics Discussion - Washington Post: Is your spin class too young, too thin and too white?

 

How do you feel about your spin class?

Yes 0 0%
 
No 4 40.00%
 
The meaning of peace is t... 6 60.00%
 
Total:10
contestgamer said:
CaptainExplosion said:

Well it's very annoying and totally derailed the thread.

No you derailed the thread by complaining about a post being racist. Why did you feel the need to do that? Virtue signalling?

Because nobody else called him out.



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John2290 said:
VGPolyglot said:

The mods here are volunteers, they don't get paid. I'm not intending to bring the rules to a black and white understanding, I can just recognize what the TC is trying to do and I think that the mods should act on it by a lot making him have to state his own views/commentary if he's going to create a thread, I don't see how ensuring that is going to drive away users/make the site worse.

Volunteers or not, the mods here want this site to succeed (From what I've seen anyway) and are conservative in their application of the rules. The fact that they are volunteers doesn't matter. Many sites out there have mods who become so for some perceived power and don't give a damn about the bottom line of the site as long as they get their point made. This is why I love this site so much, the mods don't, in general, go on opinion based bannings and twisted interpretations of the rules. There was a point there where it was coming close to this reality but it changed within a hot minute. 

To you're question about driving away users, yes of course being to heavy handed or opinion motivated in the interpretation of site rules can severely hurt site traffic. One loyal user here who posts threads is tens of thousands of clicks a week easy, either producing with threads of refreshing. If you clamp down on those users you eventually kill the site. Just look at some of the other sites out there, regardless of the other contrevorsies, Neogaf for one was pushing away users on the daily. That site died long before the big death from the media.

If asking the TC for his own input in the OP will drive users away, then the question is whether this site is the right place for them in the first place.



CaptainExplosion said:
contestgamer said:

No you derailed the thread by complaining about a post being racist. Why did you feel the need to do that? Virtue signalling?

Because nobody else called him out.

Report the thread. 



John2290 said:
StarOcean said:

You know this is all nonsense. 

Huh? How so? Mods on this site are the only reason I've stuck with it, the way they have handled bannings and punishment has been a godsend apart from some other video game centric sites and forums. CGI, Think-man, Zorro, truck back when he was a mod. All prime examples of how you handle the moderation of a site, especially a forum.

That’s laughable, but that’s your opinion. Rules are made to be followed. Laxing on rules creates issues. The only reason at all that you’re for this is because you’re either a. benefitting from dysfunction, which is a great reason, honestly. Means you probably won’t get banned for whatever crap you say. Or b. you’re being contrarian, just to be contrarian. Is it a or b? There is no c, d, e, or any letter in the alphabet. You know this thread is bad. No meaningful discussion will or can be made. The whole point was to cause people to be pitted against each other. If this thread had any sort of substance, then a argument could be made that it’s worth keeping. It’s not though. It’s shallow, empty, and void of meaning. Much like the the discussions in it.  



What's the point of exercising if you're not being welcomed into a spinning class which purpose is slimming down, then?



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John2290 said:
StarOcean said:

That’s laughable, but that’s your opinion. Rules are made to be followed. Laxing on rules creates issues. The only reason at all that you’re for this is because you’re either a. benefitting from dysfunction, which is a great reason, honestly. Means you probably won’t get banned for whatever crap you say. Or b. you’re being contrarian, just to be contrarian. Is it a or b? There is no c, d, e, or any letter in the alphabet. You know this thread is bad. No meaningful discussion will or can be made. The whole point was to cause people to be pitted against each other. If this thread had any sort of substance, then a argument could be made that it’s worth keeping. It’s not though. It’s shallow, empty, and void of meaning. Much like the the discussions in it.  

Is it really that hard to believe someone who uses a website daily if not hourly wants that website to succeed and prosper. Epecially one focused around sales and profitability that you have to come up with reasons for me to do so. This thread may be bad but that's not the reason you chimed into the discussion between me a Polyglot, so I'm not going to elaborate on that. As I said, the quote should be enough and he has posted in the thread past the OP, that is enough to satisfy rules. 

It creates no proposal at all though, he's supposed to come up with a subject, then give his input, and then we respond to that input. With the way it is we just have to guess what the input was which just makes things more troublesome than they should be.



John2290 said:
StarOcean said:

That’s laughable, but that’s your opinion. Rules are made to be followed. Laxing on rules creates issues. The only reason at all that you’re for this is because you’re either a. benefitting from dysfunction, which is a great reason, honestly. Means you probably won’t get banned for whatever crap you say. Or b. you’re being contrarian, just to be contrarian. Is it a or b? There is no c, d, e, or any letter in the alphabet. You know this thread is bad. No meaningful discussion will or can be made. The whole point was to cause people to be pitted against each other. If this thread had any sort of substance, then a argument could be made that it’s worth keeping. It’s not though. It’s shallow, empty, and void of meaning. Much like the the discussions in it.  

Is it really that hard to believe someone who uses a website daily if not hourly wants that website to succeed and prosper. Epecially one focused around sales and profitability that you have to come up with reasons for me to do so. This thread may be bad but that's not the reason you chimed into the discussion between me a Polyglot, so I'm not going to elaborate on that. As I said, the quote should be enough and he has posted in the thread past the OP, that is enough to satisfy rules. 

It’s alarming you can this much while not being a beneficiary. And because you aren’t, I’m calling your bluff. They aren’t losing much by trimming the crap 



Mr_No said:
What's the point of exercising if you're not being welcomed into a spinning class which purpose is slimming down, then?

And does slimming down REALLY have all those benefits? The only benefit I can see from it is fitting into my favorite shirts again.



o_O.Q said:

"Unless you wish to assert that messaging "spin classes" as predominantly white is due to logic"

quick question... are the populations of white people and black people the same in the us?

no? so if that's not the case would you expect 50/50 representation in any area? wouldn't that be a stupid expectation?

furthermore there's the difference in economics between both populations, white people having more money to spend on leisure, for example

and yes this obviously ties into past racism and oppression but that's not what this is about - the argument is about current factors

 

"I mean, the fact that marketing exists with fit people doesn't really prove your point."

well it pretty much does when you are arguing incorrectly that they have to advertise in a particular way that is the opposite of what they have always done(99% of the time) and fitness programs being more popular now than ever

 

" While gyms make money, the "gym" industry is notorious for being unable to keep customers and while there are a lot of reasons for that"

fitness programs whether it be gyms or otherwise are more popular now than they ever have been

 

"people being uncomfortable being "unfit" in a gym is one of them"

insecurity because of lack of proficiency in any area affects people across all criteria and is not a problem that can ever be done away with

 

"This article is calling out a feeling of exclusion within a specific industry. Showing examples of that industry doing a poor job at including a certain demographic doesn't really prove any point."

my point is that your framing of standard advertising procedure as bad or ineffective because its exclusionary is silly

advertising as i said before is about two states - the state of the person initially before buying a product and the state of the person after buying the product

the goal has always been to show the end result and as a result influence the person to buy into the product

a consequence of that is to present the initial condition as being unsatisfactory or excluding it entirely, which obviously results in exclusion

why do people work out? to be fitter and often to be more attractive so images are presented of what can be done by buying into a fitness program

why do people buy hair loss products? to not be bald so images are presented showing men or women with full heads of hair

why do people buy one type of phone over another because that phone is presented as having unique features not found anywhere else

and you can go right through advertising and see the same pattern and its there for an obvious reason

 

"I know that I don't think I'd ever do a yoga class because they are typically all women, and I would feel super weird being the only guy doing yoga in a class of women. That says nothing about me hating women, but instead it says that I don't feel welcome in those groups because I am not part of the in-group of those classes."

63% of the us population is white

and 13% is black

how would you deal with that?

"my point is that your framing of standard advertising procedure as bad or ineffective because its exclusionary is silly"

Except the issue here is that I am doing neither. I am not saying it is bad, I am saying that more could be done to make certain demographics feel included in certain activities, and I am not saying that it is ineffective, but instead that it could be more effective with certain subpopulations if it changed the messaging.

There is no need to be this reductionist here. 

To speak about the marketing strategies you are discussing, there is a difference between marketing an ideal and marketing to an ideal. I mean, look at the balding products you spoke of. Pretty much every hair loss commercial I have ever seen has shown tons of people with terrible hair before showing that they achieved the ideal. This is to express the fact that these products are not targeted to individuals who are the ideal, but instead that the product is for people seeking that ideal. Without showing individuals who are not ideal, it is easy to create the messaging that this product is for people who are already at that ideal. Also, it is worth noting that products and memberships are fairly different when it comes to the feeling of exclusion, but I will move on from that for now.

As far as demographics go, if 63% of the population is white, than that means 37% is of some minority group, and remember we aren't just talking about diversity of race, but diversity of body type and diversity of age (and diversity and inclusion does not require a 50/50 split). But country demographics mean little when it comes to "messaging" here. You would have no trouble finding a minority to have some pictures taken of them. Remember that the assertion here is that individuals are not entering courses because they do not feel welcome due to the messaging. This results in demographics skewed beyond overall country demographics. In the example the article gives for membership, they spoke about a teaching class of 54 women. One (the author) was black. If true country demographics were present within this class, you would have about 7 black individuals here, so clearly that isn't a good proxy for the discussion we are having.



I really hate these articles, she's attacking the yoga culture for lack of diversity, without putting any thought into the idea that maybe she lives in an area with a whole lot of white people, or black people could care less about yoga, and maybe, just maybe, she is a racist herself saying all this. But can't say that to her, it would hurt her feelings and how dare we hurt her feelings because she is a strong independent women!.

Forcing diversity into everything does not work, hire people who are good no matter their color and the business will succeed. Like the moment I say i'm an attack helicopter, and there is not enough attack helicopters instructing yoga in the industry, this is really racist. What will they do? Nothing. There will be anarchy.