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Forums - Politics Discussion - My dear divided America.

VGPolyglot on 31 January 2018
KrspaceT said:
VGPolyglot said:

Wouldn't point #2 contradict point #1?

3. What do you think they increased the budget for? Just for fun?

https://www.globalresearch.ca/obama-ordered-ten-times-more-drone-strikes-than-bush/5475415

4. And has production gone down since then?

5. No, nor did I imply that. I am saying that it's tough to talk about equal rights for genders when your own party is dominated by males.

6. Plenty less than Republicans? How are we determining the scale? Is it anything to avoid associating Democrats with Republicans?

7. They claim to be the same party, as that one though..

8. Less funding means they are more vulnerable to having to rely on private donors or institutions, which is a huge risk.

9. https://www.biography.com/people/eli%C3%A1n-gonz%C3%A1lez-9542365

10. It's pretty simple to conclude that they don't want to get overthrown when they're the ones in power.

 

By the way, I don't like Republicans, keep that in mind. My goal isn't to defend the Republicans, but to try to help people understand that they are both part of the same regime and same system, and thus they're going to have many similarities.


3: Tensions with Putin did escalate during that time, as well as the South China Sea issue. Valid reasons no to be on guard?

4: Did you see Trump recently put a tariff on solar panel parts? That was a solid blow

5: That doesn't mean they can't speak for the rights, and there are many democratic figures who aren't white males. Nancy Pelosi, Diane F, Warren.....

6: I simply find the stretching people do to say the two are the same to be foolish and shortsighted. See Uncharted and Pokemon comaprison early.

7: She's not exactly welcome in the other one, is she? Parties also have degrees: you have hawkish democrats and dovish Republicans, but they differ greatly from Hawkish republicans and dovish democrats

8: Connecticut doesn't have the same sort of religious right the rest of the nation has. 

10: That's clearly why they are harassing the heavily armed NRA. 

So, now you're defending having a larger military? I'd say no, they are not valid reasons, the US is a nuclear powerhouse with the largest military spending in the world, why do they need to expand anymore? I also fail to see how it is shortsighted and foolish to compare them, in fact it is because of people's experience with only the Democrats and Republicans that they seem so different, because they're not familiar with other ideologies that would open up the scale.



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Aeolus451 on 31 January 2018
pokoko said:
Aeolus451 said:

He's responsible for what happened as soon as he won the election. Companies  and investors regained faith in the economy almost immediately. Companies don't take years to react to something or someone. The tax bill is already affecting the world economy positively.

So you're praising Obama for starting the recovery?  Look, you might want to see the President as being responsible for all parts of the economy but you also claimed that experts are also giving all the credit to Trump, which is not true.  The economic recovery started years ago.  

I'm not trying to change your mind.  I don't care if you want to give Trump credit for the moon landing in 1969.  However, what you said in the post I quoted initially is mostly propaganda.  Some numbers have improved under Trump, some have not--and almost all of it is largely inline with previous trends.  That is what experts will tell you.

Of course, we still have to see the tax revision will result in a spike, which would be credited to Trump, as would a deficit balloon if he is unable to offset the reduction in tax revenue.  

I didn't say the recovery is because of but the boom is definitely all Trump. I wanted to post this pic in this thread because I thought it was funny.

 

 



KrspaceT on 31 January 2018
VGPolyglot said:
KrspaceT said:


3: Tensions with Putin did escalate during that time, as well as the South China Sea issue. Valid reasons no to be on guard?

4: Did you see Trump recently put a tariff on solar panel parts? That was a solid blow

5: That doesn't mean they can't speak for the rights, and there are many democratic figures who aren't white males. Nancy Pelosi, Diane F, Warren.....

6: I simply find the stretching people do to say the two are the same to be foolish and shortsighted. See Uncharted and Pokemon comaprison early.

7: She's not exactly welcome in the other one, is she? Parties also have degrees: you have hawkish democrats and dovish Republicans, but they differ greatly from Hawkish republicans and dovish democrats

8: Connecticut doesn't have the same sort of religious right the rest of the nation has. 

10: That's clearly why they are harassing the heavily armed NRA. 

So, now you're defending having a larger military? I'd say no, they are not valid reasons, the US is a nuclear powerhouse with the largest military spending in the world, why do they need to expand anymore? I also fail to see how it is shortsighted and foolish to compare them, in fact it is because of people's experience with only the Democrats and Republicans that they seem so different, because they're not familiar with other ideologies that would open up the scale.

I'd love if there was a Warren-Sanders Party and a Fernstein-Pelosi party and a Munich Party and a Collins party and a Cruz-Cotton party....but we don't have those. I work with what we have. 

There is a difference between wanting to go preempt Iran and not having your pants down if Russia or China does something extreme. Both those nations have nukes: shooting a nuke at Moscow is no good

When people say they aren't different, they only normalize extreme behaviors one side (generally Republicans) commit. Shutdowns are just the start, that talk will only lead to a Democrat running like Trump. 



The Democratic Nintendo fan....is that a paradox? I'm fond of one of the more conservative companies in the industry, but I vote Liberally and view myself that way 90% of the time?

Nymeria on 31 January 2018

The world and human beings are complex. Too complex for many human minds it could be argued. Due to not having the same experiences we struggle to empathize and instead resort to shorthand defining others.

Complex statement: "The people of the other political party have varying views and issues that are important to them. Much of this is built on individual and communal understandings of society. It will be very hard to bridge such divides, but we should make every effort to build understanding, even if it is not consensus on a matter."

Simple statement: "Stupid other people, ruin everything and want me to think. Bunch of crazy, evil, idiots they all are. I hate them and will never associate with them. My echo chamber is safe and comforts me when things get confusing! Angry shouting!"

The issue is, either side of any issue thinks them self the enlightened one and the other the fool. These sort of ideological spirals are supported by media and algorithms online. Reinforcing worldviews so that reality itself splits in the mind.

My advice? Listen as well as possible and try to seek understanding. Direct confrontation leads to reactionary tactics instead of open dialogue. You may not get anywhere and be frustrated, but without trying I think things will get worse.



KrspaceT on 31 January 2018
Nymeria said:
The world and human beings are complex. Too complex for many human minds it could be argued. Due to not having the same experiences we struggle to empathize and instead resort to shorthand defining others.

Complex statement: "The people of the other political party have varying views and issues that are important to them. Much of this is built on individual and communal understandings of society. It will be very hard to bridge such divides, but we should make every effort to build understanding, even if it is not consensus on a matter."

Simple statement: "Stupid other people, ruin everything and want me to think. Bunch of crazy, evil, idiots they all are. I hate them and will never associate with them. My echo chamber is safe and comforts me when things get confusing! Angry shouting!"

The issue is, either side of any issue thinks them self the enlightened one and the other the fool. These sort of ideological spirals are supported by media and algorithms online. Reinforcing worldviews so that reality itself splits in the mind.

My advice? Listen as well as possible and try to seek understanding. Direct confrontation leads to reactionary tactics instead of open dialogue. You may not get anywhere and be frustrated, but without trying I think things will get worse.

I've tried that: it doesn't work. 



The Democratic Nintendo fan....is that a paradox? I'm fond of one of the more conservative companies in the industry, but I vote Liberally and view myself that way 90% of the time?

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Nymeria on 31 January 2018
KrspaceT said:
Nymeria said:
The world and human beings are complex. Too complex for many human minds it could be argued. Due to not having the same experiences we struggle to empathize and instead resort to shorthand defining others.

Complex statement: "The people of the other political party have varying views and issues that are important to them. Much of this is built on individual and communal understandings of society. It will be very hard to bridge such divides, but we should make every effort to build understanding, even if it is not consensus on a matter."

Simple statement: "Stupid other people, ruin everything and want me to think. Bunch of crazy, evil, idiots they all are. I hate them and will never associate with them. My echo chamber is safe and comforts me when things get confusing! Angry shouting!"

The issue is, either side of any issue thinks them self the enlightened one and the other the fool. These sort of ideological spirals are supported by media and algorithms online. Reinforcing worldviews so that reality itself splits in the mind.

My advice? Listen as well as possible and try to seek understanding. Direct confrontation leads to reactionary tactics instead of open dialogue. You may not get anywhere and be frustrated, but without trying I think things will get worse.

I've tried that: it doesn't work. 

It may, it may not, but I can guarantee you not trying will fail every time.



VGPolyglot on 31 January 2018
KrspaceT said:
VGPolyglot said:

So, now you're defending having a larger military? I'd say no, they are not valid reasons, the US is a nuclear powerhouse with the largest military spending in the world, why do they need to expand anymore? I also fail to see how it is shortsighted and foolish to compare them, in fact it is because of people's experience with only the Democrats and Republicans that they seem so different, because they're not familiar with other ideologies that would open up the scale.

I'd love if there was a Warren-Sanders Party and a Fernstein-Pelosi party and a Munich Party and a Collins party and a Cruz-Cotton party....but we don't have those. I work with what we have. 

There is a difference between wanting to go preempt Iran and not having your pants down if Russia or China does something extreme. Both those nations have nukes: shooting a nuke at Moscow is no good

When people say they aren't different, they only normalize extreme behaviors one side (generally Republicans) commit. Shutdowns are just the start, that talk will only lead to a Democrat running like Trump. 

You don't have to choose between a lesser of two-evils though.



Wiibaron on 31 January 2018

66 million people voted for Hillary Clinton after knowing she went around the Gov email system to make sure she had 'approval' of what people should and should not know about her dealings.  And knowing that she demeaned the many women that her husband violated.  And knowing her health was questionable.



EricHiggin on 31 January 2018
VGPolyglot said:

KrspaceT said: 

3: Tensions with Putin did escalate during that time, as well as the South China Sea issue. Valid reasons no to be on guard?

4: Did you see Trump recently put a tariff on solar panel parts? That was a solid blow

5: That doesn't mean they can't speak for the rights, and there are many democratic figures who aren't white males. Nancy Pelosi, Diane F, Warren.....

6: I simply find the stretching people do to say the two are the same to be foolish and shortsighted. See Uncharted and Pokemon comaprison early.

7: She's not exactly welcome in the other one, is she? Parties also have degrees: you have hawkish democrats and dovish Republicans, but they differ greatly from Hawkish republicans and dovish democrats

8: Connecticut doesn't have the same sort of religious right the rest of the nation has. 

10: That's clearly why they are harassing the heavily armed NRA. 

So, now you're defending having a larger military? I'd say no, they are not valid reasons, the US is a nuclear powerhouse with the largest military spending in the world, why do they need to expand anymore? I also fail to see how it is shortsighted and foolish to compare them, in fact it is because of people's experience with only the Democrats and Republicans that they seem so different, because they're not familiar with other ideologies that would open up the scale.

4: A couple of major Chinese solar manufacturers recently announced they are building new plants in the US because of the tariff. They mentioned they have been paying close attention to the US ever since Trump became prez and have been planning ahead. The reason they are doing this isn't solely because they are being forced to, but because of the lowered corporate tax rates, so it still makes business sense. You can bet more will follow.

This now leads to American jobs to build those plants, jobs to operate those plants, jobs to supply those plants, and jobs that use those plants products. Those facilities also bring more direct American competition, keeping prices down, and also bring more local production, making it cheaper and quicker to get those products installed and operating.



jason1637 on 31 January 2018

America mostly isn't divided. Don't let the mainstream media fool you to believing that it is.