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To me, the graphics race is a gimmick. And a very temporary one at that.

Gameplay is what is important. Horse power is only relevant, when it affects gameplay, not graphics.

The NES for example, could display graphics inferior to computers at the time. But the NES was good at side scrolling, and that affected gameplay. Ever since the horse power has been improved, but it only mattered because of what it did to gameplay. If I just wanted graphics I would play FMV CG games, and be done with it.



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Errorist76 said:
The_Yoda said:

If anything is possible then can VR allow me to experience what something tastes like? What it smells like? how it feels?  VR appeals to just two of the 5 senses so your repeated claim of anything is possible is hogwash as the technology currently stands.  Sorry but this is the type of statement that comes off as fanatical.  As I've stated before I am a person that is interested in VR for some games.

 

God what a drivel. So whatever tech will be ready, it still won’t be good enough for you. Got it. So you’re criticising people who love VR because they are fans?! Seriously?!

Did you even read the last line , I'll paste it for you and bold it: "As I've stated before I am a person that is interested in VR for some games."

What I am criticizing is the ridiculous claim by Habam of "Cool thing with VR is: Everything you can imagine is possible in VR."  again in it's current iterations not everything I can imagine is possible.  Taste and smell can not be convened in the living room at present. Even touch cannot currently be fully realized.  A little force feed back does not mean that I can feel the difference between silk and stainless steel in a VR setting.  To be crass can VR allow me to know what Pam Anderson's pussy tastes like? The answer is now no and when it comes to taste in particular there is a fair chance VR will never get there. Although very cool in my opinion in no way is "Everything you can imagine is possible in VR."  Agree or disagree?

It is far from drivel, as I've already said VR in it's current form is still intriguing.  I will likely buy PSVR this year for resident evil 7 alone because I think that game would be kick ass in VR.  Don't think because I am criticizing his over zealous statement that i am some hater.  I'm simply calling bullshit on that particular claim as well as a couple other incorrect or cherry picked examples.



Errorist76 said:
AlfredoTurkey said:

The attach rate for PS VR is under 3% and less than that for PC. 

Oh I see, now you’re trying to make the sales look bad just because every base PS4 (which is probably slower than 90% of gaming PCs out there) are VR ready.

There’s a market. Sony dominates the market. No spin needed.

Oh I see, now you’re trying to make the sales motion sensing cameras look bad just because every base Xbox One (which is probably slower than 95% of gaming PCs out there) are Kinect ready.

There’s a market. Microsoft dominates the market. No spin needed.



John2290 said:
Paatar said:
Of course not. It’s only a gimmick if Nintendo uses it. Isn’t that common knowledge at this point?

Lol, I wonder how many of the "haters" are Nintendo only gamers, that would be ironic, hehe. But, yeah, I'm waiting for Nintendo to announce VR, if they do a mobile (Handheld like) VR then I'm in day one, I'd pay 500 quid easily for that. Exciting thought.

Indeed. Most people downplaying VR are people that favor either Nintendo or XBox or are known to downplay PS related stuff. I'd also bet most of them also haven't even experienced the current high-end versions of the tech (but they would never admit it, since that would put their credibility in doubt).



John2290 said:
The_Yoda said:

Did you even read the last line , I'll paste it for you and bold it: "As I've stated before I am a person that is interested in VR for some games."

What I am criticizing is the ridiculous claim by Habam of "Cool thing with VR is: Everything you can imagine is possible in VR."  again in it's current iterations not everything I can imagine is possible.  Taste and smell can not be convened in the living room at present. Even touch cannot currently be fully realized.  A little force feed back does not mean that I can feel the difference between silk and stainless steel in a VR setting.  To be crass can VR allow me to know what Pam Anderson's pussy tastes like? The answer is now no and when it comes to taste in particular there is a fair chance VR will never get there. Although very cool in my opinion in no way is "Everything you can imagine is possible in VR."  Agree or disagree?

It is far from drivel, as I've already said VR in it's current form is still intriguing.  I will likely buy PSVR this year for resident evil 7 alone because I think that game would be kick ass in VR.  Don't think because I am criticizing his over zealous statement that i am some hater.  I'm simply calling bullshit on that particular claim as well as a couple other incorrect or cherry picked examples.

I don't want to get in on this discussion but I just want to say that VR may only effect 2 of the 5 big senses but there is a lot more it effects through those two such as propioception, balance etc the only other one that matters to current games is touch, smell and taste might be a nice touch but that would truly be the definition of gimmick by today's gaming standards and design. Touch can be added through haptic feedback gloves for your hands, pretty much the only part of your body that matters to today's current games. 

No worries, I agree sight and sound are the big two, touch would be next, smell then taste in my opinion. 

I don't know that being able to add smell would be any more of a gimmick than the sensation of touch.  Not a necessity but yet another element that adds to immersion and brings the overall experience closer to reality. I also think it would be easier to implement than taste which as I stated earlier I think would be near impossible.  The only way I can see taste getting pulled off is some sort of neural interface.

 

Again as I said to Errorist76 my response in this thread was more to curb Habam enthusiastic claims of "everything is possible".  As much as I hate to give him this out, he may have been talking of the future of VR rather than what is possible in the here and now. Even then the Everything is an awfully big claim to make even when talking of the future.

Last edited by The_Yoda - on 22 January 2018

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Cerebralbore101 said:

We don't need Oculus controllers or a more expensive HMD. Motion controls are usually bad for games, hence Oculus controllers are bad for games. VR will take off when it's affordable to the average consumer. Those Oculus controllers make the whole setup too expensive for most people. PS5 will likely use a VR headset that isn't much different than the current PSVR headset. Why? Because the people that already have PSVR will expect PS5 to be compatible with current gen PSVR headsets. This will make the base PSVR userbase much bigger than any other headset used on the system. So even if Sony came out with a PSVR2 to sell with the PS5, the standard PSVR would still work fine.

1. Most VR games are way better with motion controllers than a normal controller because they give you more agency than just using thumbsticks. Control schemes are still being worked on because it's so new, but they'll get there. Like FPS at the beginning of the century.

 

2. There's no way PSVR2 will have compatibility with the original PSVR. The tech is changing so quickly and I fully expect PSVR2 to use a totally different tracking system and motion controllers than the original. Games for the new system just aren't going to support the old hardware.



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John2290 said:
The_Yoda said:

No worries, I agree sight and sound are the big two, touch would be next, smell then taste in my opinion. 

I don't know that being able to add smell would be any more of a gimmick than the sensation of touch.  Not a necessity but yet another element that adds to immersion and brings the overall experience closer to reality. I also think it would be easier to implement than taste which as I stated earlier I think would be near impossible.  The only way I can see taste getting pulled off is some sort of neural interface.

 

Again as I said to Errorist76 my response in this thread was more to curb Habam enthusiastic claims of "everything is possible".  As much as I hate to give him this out, he may have been talking of the future of VR rather than what is possible in the here and now. Even then the Everything is an awfully big claim to make even when talking of the future.

I think touch has much more value than simply immersion. It would add a whole lot, too many examples to list are bumbling around in my mind right now but one good one is being able to grab something from a belt on your hip and knowing what it is through different feedback sensations would be invaluable in a inventory heavy fps game like say, perhaps a battle royal game, right now you'd either have to be really mindful of where you left that clip or look down to find it and looking down might mean a bullet through the skull. Immersion would also be greatly increased, I agree but I think it does have value. Gloves with an exo skeletal controller on the back of the hand that replaces motion controls (The rift controls/ps move) and haptec feedback on the inside and knuckles with some form of enhanced rumble on the wrists (for gun recoil and the like) would be invaluable to VR gaming. I believe the only reason they aren't going in on this right now is it kills the external perihperal market and all the current start ups that are sure to pump money into the market and possibly create a tech that will take off, benefiting the tech. However touch is added in, in the long term ...man, I can't wait for a boxing game where I can feel the weight of the gloves and the impact of the punch or the recoil off a gun as I pop off a few rounds into the ceiling of a GTA supermarket, lol.

I can see where you are going, like I said touch ranked in third for me. 

Can you imagine if smell were perfected (perhaps things would get too realistic) how that might affect gameplay.  I imagine I might be even less inclined to go into a sewer in a resident evil game if i also had to put up with the smell let alone whatever creatures are lurking down there.  Or the smell of rotting flesh if I let a zombie get too close, ect ect. 

Or smell smoke in the distance, or gun smoke as you fire off a few rounds. Smell plays a large roll in our lives but again, not as big a roll as touch in my opinion.  We are visual creatures first and foremost though to be sure.

We will near the summit of the tech when all 5 senses are engaged but i see that as being far enough off that I may never see it.

I'm still surprised Errorist76 went off on me like he did, I'm one of the guys that wants this tech pushed forward.  I think it is very neat (even in its current iterations), but at the same time I understand the practical limitations of today's technology, mostly notably in low cost interfaces.



I just want to make one thing clear. I fully support the industry pursuing VR going forward. It does nothing for me because a decent (not good) experience is still way, way too expensive. But, that doesn't mean that technology won't exist some day.

But, let's not fool ourselves here. VR is far more popular than it has ever been, but it's still extremely niche. It's not popular amongst gamers, sales are not good, the price is a complete turn off for a casual audience no matter how "neat" or "amazing" they find it, and the technology is still way too basic and causes motion sickness in far too many people after extended use. It's got a long, long ways to go, and that isn't going to happen soon. It's not 3-4 years away, it's probably not going to happen in the 2020's. So let's temper our expectations and not get ahead of ourselves.



Eh, I get loads of immersion playing in a dark and sound-proof room or under my bed covers. Super cheap and involves little set-up.



TheLegendaryWolf said:
dgboweniii said:

It's only a gimmick right now because software has not caught up to the tech.  There will come a day when we only game in VR.

I hope not, I much rather continue gaming on a screen rather than forced to strap a headset to my face. I much prefer the day where we can game with both as options side by side on all games.

Same. Taking away all the options and telling you to game with a VR headset only is just going to throw a lot of people off.



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