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Errorist76 said:
potato_hamster said:
I just want to make one thing clear. I fully support the industry pursuing VR going forward. It does nothing for me because a decent (not good) experience is still way, way too expensive. But, that doesn't mean that technology won't exist some day.

But, let's not fool ourselves here. VR is far more popular than it has ever been, but it's still extremely niche. It's not popular amongst gamers, sales are not good, the price is a complete turn off for a casual audience no matter how "neat" or "amazing" they find it, and the technology is still way too basic and causes motion sickness in far too many people after extended use. It's got a long, long ways to go, and that isn't going to happen soon. It's not 3-4 years away, it's probably not going to happen in the 2020's. So let's temper our expectations and not get ahead of ourselves. 

You're so far off from the truth. Whole GDC was full of VR. AR and VR will become big in the next 5 years...and big doesn't mean Smartphone or normal console big. It will constantly grow and grow as the technology gets better and prices drop. One can clearly see that you have no idea what you're talking about. 

 

potato_hamster said: 

Oh I see, now you’re trying to make the sales motion sensing cameras look bad just because every base Xbox One (which is probably slower than 95% of gaming PCs out there) are Kinect ready.

There’s a market. Microsoft dominates the market. No spin needed.

The fact alone that you compare VR to Kinect is ridiculous and underlines my assumption even more... still spinning.



Spin? Remember your gaming history.

I remember when GDC/E3/whatever expo you want to mention was full of 3D displays,  Ever game developer was making games that could take advantage of 3D ready displays. Every single booth had these glasses you had to wear to take advantage of this neat 3D stereoscopic nonsense that was a part of pretty much every single HDTV for the better part of a decade! People were paying extra just to have the latest and greatest in 3D displays, and going out and buying special, extra expensive 3D versions of blu-rays!

.... and everyone stopped giving a shit by 2012. As it turns out, people don't want to use these rinky-dink glasses while they're gaming and watching movies at home. Sony, who pimped these 3D displays and 3D-enabled games for well over 5 years finally stuck their ear to the ground, listened to the market, and dropped it.  From 3D displays, the industry moved on to.... Kinect! Have you ever gone to a GDC or E3 during those years and stuck your head around a MS booth? Every single game in the later years of the X360 had some Kinect functionality built in. MS was had developers to make special Kinect Friendly versions of their games, like that Star Wars demo they pushed out to all the Best Buys. Some developers became Kinect specialists and led the industry in showing what was possible with Kinect, and how it enabled gamers to have new ways to play. Sound familiar?

And then! Xbox One comes along and every single Xbox One ships with a Kinect, MS thought it was going to be that mainstream!!!!

We all know how that went. Gamers were PISSED that they had to spend an extra $100 for some camera they never wanted while other diehards were telling the apparent fools that the only reason they never wanted it is because they never tried it, it never gave it a fair chance, and how Kinect was going to revolutionize gaming as we know it! It was all over these message boards from the X1 announcement to around the time MS came to their senses. ...still sounding familiar?

And yes, "big" does mean console big. We have people seriously questioning whether every PS5 should ship with a VR headset in 2-3 years. That's not beyond niche, that's mainstream gaming, and it's completely ridiculous to even think it even remotely possible with a straight face.

VR isn't going to gain any real traction until you can get everything you need for a much, much better VR experience at a small fraction of the price. It needs a much higher frame rate, much higher resolution, much, much better tracking, and a better kind of screen that doesn't cause eye fatigue like many VR headsets do. Sony has a quasi-tolerable VR solution for $400 and it's not flying off the shelves. In reality it needs to be much, much better than anything we even have in the works today, wireless, idiot proof to set up and maintain, and half the price of any of the current offerings for everything you need for a VR experience. That isn't 5 years a way. That's not spin. That's reality.

Even then most gamers are never going to want to wear any shit on their face or body when they play games most of the time. But you still have those people who pre-ordered the 3D Bluray of Blade Runner 2048. You still have those people working for top-tier gaming media sites are writing articles about how they are swinging their arms every mornign to work out in Red Bull Crashed Ice Kinect games.... written in October of 2017!

.. and we'll have you VR junkies picking up random VR indie games and swearing the experience is better than real life in 2022 while no one else gives a shit.



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John2290 said:
KLAMarine said:
Eh, I get loads of immersion playing in a dark and sound-proof room or under my bed covers. Super cheap and involves little set-up.

Maybe you are joking, it's honestly hard to tell these days. This is just to haters in general anyway. You don't understand VR, haven't tried or at the very least have had bad mobile experience. It's not even close to putting blinders on, it's not simply being in the game either, It gives you feels man, sensations and emotions. I've "felt"the sun on my face while racing in GT sport, felt real legit shit your pants type fear in RE7, for all it's worth my brain believed my upperbody might as well have have been spiderman or a robot monkey in Windlands (Even had a lucid dream about that one). For what it's worth I might as well have had half a dozen strippers in my living room in the last week or two, look but don't touch rules of course :). The mind simply can't tell the difference half of the time and I say half of the time because I look back on some gameplay experiences and it's like my brain has filed them under video games but some have been filed under "yes, that one happened, that's a real memory". Not sure what the factors involved there are but for what it's worth, I might as well have been driving a ford escort in a rally in Germany just a few days ago. Immersion is one thing but when you forget what world you are in, even if it's only 75% of the time and you remember the fictional world as reality, that is an other thing entirely.

I'm not. A game made well with immersion in mind will pull you in regardless of set-up. Isolating yourself from the world around you only adds to that whether it's done with a headset or a dark room.



John2290 said:
Medisti said:

That's another flawed bit of logic. Steering wheel controllers aren't sold with consoles or with racing games. If you had to buy a gun-shaped controller to play an FPS (or if it was even a viable option), that would be a gimmick as well.

But, again, why is VR being a gimmick a bad thing? A gimmick is a selling point. Just because gamers have chosen to vilify it because of the "motion control gimmick" doesn't mean it's actually bad. VR's selling point, its gimmick, is its immersive quality. That's what sets it apart from other variants of the medium. Without its gimmick, VR is just an HD 3DS in a box you put against your face. 

Vr being labeled a gimmick is just wrong, I sense it is being labeled by people who haven't tried VR or at an early and perhaps limited capacity. I feel I need to call this out. The steering wheel industry is massive and far from resting on a gimmick, people but steering wheels the same reason they but dual analouge controllers to play three D games, it works better than any method. I hate using this quote but one Racing dev said this "You wouldn't use a keyboard to drive your car IRL?" As much as you may think Duel analouge is a good input method, it simply is not for racing titles. The steering wheel provides gameplay aspects you can not achive with any other tech, regardless of how many people buy them. I think you don't understand the word gimmick or have a twisted view from the last few years, perhaps.

If by your standards everything added to mobile phones in the last decade is a gimmick yet you most likely use them daily if not weekly. Most of them you use without realizing. Is 4g a gimmick to sell phones? Is a high rez camera a gimmick or would you rather use a seperate phone, camera and laptop.

Also, VR is not just a 3D box you slap on your face. I provides gameplay possibilities and aspects far beyond what the duel shock and 3d gaming has, may I ask have you tried a good decent or high end VR? With a variety of game genres? 

I have, and I was not impressed, because I (a) don't like motion controls and (b) get motion sickness very easily. But I'm not saying VR is bad. I'm saying it is by definition a gimmick.

Gimmick: (n) a trick or device intended to attract attention, publicity, or business.

If a VR headset isn't a device intended to attract business, then what is it?



John2290 said:
Medisti said:

I have, and I was not impressed, because I (a) don't like motion controls and (b) get motion sickness very easily. But I'm not saying VR is bad. I'm saying it is by definition a gimmick.

Gimmick: (n) a trick or device intended to attract attention, publicity, or business.

If a VR headset isn't a device intended to attract business, then what is it?

You still don't understand Gimmick, you are ignoring that it is only a gimmick if it has no value of use, and VR has immense value to gaming. I don't want to comment again for the tenth time but see my comments above on the subject.

I never said it didn't. But, your very thread title is factually wrong. VR is by definition a gimmick, and it has the potential to be a great gimmick.



John2290 said:
Medisti said:

That's another flawed bit of logic. Steering wheel controllers aren't sold with consoles or with racing games. If you had to buy a gun-shaped controller to play an FPS (or if it was even a viable option), that would be a gimmick as well.

But, again, why is VR being a gimmick a bad thing? A gimmick is a selling point. Just because gamers have chosen to vilify it because of the "motion control gimmick" doesn't mean it's actually bad. VR's selling point, its gimmick, is its immersive quality. That's what sets it apart from other variants of the medium. Without its gimmick, VR is just an HD 3DS in a box you put against your face. 

Vr being labeled a gimmick is just wrong, I sense it is being labeled by people who haven't tried VR or at an early and perhaps limited capacity. I feel I need to call this out. The steering wheel industry is massive and far from resting on a gimmick, people but steering wheels the same reason they but dual analouge controllers to play three D games, it works better than any method. I hate using this quote but one Racing dev said this "You wouldn't use a keyboard to drive your car IRL?" As much as you may think Duel analouge is a good input method, it simply is not for racing titles. The steering wheel provides gameplay aspects you can not achive with any other tech, regardless of how many people buy them. I think you don't understand the word gimmick or have a twisted view from the last few years, perhaps.

If by your standards everything added to mobile phones in the last decade is a gimmick yet you most likely use them daily if not weekly. Most of them you use without realizing. Is 4g a gimmick to sell phones? Is a high rez camera a gimmick or would you rather use a seperate phone, camera and laptop.

Also, VR is not just a 3D box you slap on your face. I provides gameplay possibilities and aspects far beyond what the duel shock and 3d gaming has, may I ask have you tried a good decent or high end VR? With a variety of game genres? 

I fully agree on racing wheels. There's an entire industry with many major players that do nothing but make steering wheel, shifters, pedals and chairs for this niche market. They're not a gimmick in the sense that a skilled player with a steering wheel will absolutely wipe the floor with a skilled player using a controller (all other things equal) because their inputs can consistently be far more precise, and they can easily turn dials on their wheels mid-race for things that would have controller users diving through menus.  It's simply no contest. For someone who spends as much time as he does playing racing games, I really should have a wheel.

But let's be clear. Racing wheels are niche. Always have been. Always will be.

For what it's worth, I also agree that VR is not a gimmick. I just don't think they're going to get much more popular than racing wheels.



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The_Yoda said:

Taste and smell can not be convened in the living room at present.

https://www.theverge.com/2017/1/5/14178070/resident-evil-7-vr-candle



KLAMarine said:
Eh, I get loads of immersion playing in a dark and sound-proof room or under my bed covers. Super cheap and involves little set-up.

Lol yeah ALMOST the same lmao :D



trent44 said:
I wonder how big VR will get.

I could see it growing to 12 million gamers or so, but it just seems like a very niche thing with how long all the different headsets have been out.

Which is cool, there are lots of gaming niches now.

they are currently selling 4 Mio high end headsets per year (1 mio per quarter):

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/paullamkin/2017/11/30/virtual-reality-headset-sales-hit-1-million/#121180802b61

 

Sales are´increasing as well. 12 Mio is definitly possible in the very near future. 



WagnerPaiva said:
I think it is very cool, my favorite games are Skyrim, Resident Evil 8 and Rush of Blood.
That said, it kinda makes me sick, so I can not play for a long period of time and often I stay away from it for weeks.
It is a very cool acessory, but in the end, good games are king. RE8 drove me to addiction (and borderline insanity), everything else is just cool.
Oh, one thing... when the game is bad, it is just garbage. Like Ghostbusters or Homecoming Spiderman

try playing more frequently but stationary games (sparc, dino frontier, batman, superhot vr). Most people will adept to vr and wont get sick after getting used to the new expierence



BeardofZeus said:
I've played three different VR games on PSVR, one was like Tron and made me feel sick, the other was battlefront but controlling an x-wing, and the last one was defusing a bomb while my friend read instructions. I wanted to like it because i love the idea of VR but i just thought every game would have been much better on a normal TV.

VR definitely not for me (yet). Unlike 3D, i have some faith it will improve enough over the next 5 years for my opinion to change though.

just because you got sick or because you didnt liked to sit in a xwing and would prefer to sit in your living room and just watch a xwing on your tv?