Lucas-Rio said:
It's one of the biggest disappointment I have had for a movie. It's easily the worst Star Wars movie. The Force Awakens was at least half decent while copying the old trilogy. Obviously there will be some spoilers in my thread.
They completely ruined Luke's character, he never become a master jedi, but became a depressed hobo, weak and self destructing. He had no clue about anything, was whining for the most part of the movie and then died in a ridiculous and hopeless death.
The rest of the movie is also tragic: it's an endless combination of heroes running aways scared from the danger, some will attempt to make a diversion, one will stay behind to die in a useless way, rince and repeat.
There are just no logic at all in the plot. Why rebel captains are staying in their ships to die while they are doing nothing than waiting? Why the rebel admiral waited to die when she finally decided to kamikaze herself? Why the guy who betrayed them even started the operation when he had no clue of who they were and what they were doing?
Kylo Ren is still awful. Even after killing Snoke, he can't get any respect. And the killing of Snoke, he was so powerful he could toy with Kylo Ren but yet he is dying and we won't get any explanation of him...
So in resume, Luke's character ruined, the plot make absolutely no sense and has tragic flaws, Kylo Ren still an awful and weak character, Snoke disappearing brutally. I don't think I will watch the next with such a tragedy.
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You really need to watch both movies again and likely the OT as you are clueless.
1. Luke was always a whiner that focused on future negativity. His elder self was a Master Jedi because he was the only Jedi. Its also worth noting that he had nearly zero training and guidance throughout his life. His continued areas of improvement were illustrated even as Yoda talked to him in this movie. His overly negative and paranoid focus on his first attempt to resurrect the Jedi makes sense when you draw out the overall scenario he has lived.
2. I will give you that while the movie direction focusing on the main 4 characters was a bit of a confusion, this was not a first for the series. AotC, RotS, ESB, and RotJ all had similar separate main characters narrative before it all met up at some point. Though Finn's entire storyline did nothing for the overall movie. But it didn't hurt the story or make it a bad SW movie. Additionally, ESB also had them running for their lives the entire movie.
3. The plot did make sense. This has been a build-up of a power struggle that finally tipped over at the end of TFA. The New Order and New Republic were like the 2 party system in the US. The polar opposites where fighting for political power and struggling while the Republic allowed its military (rebellion/resistance) die off slowly. This movie is a direct result of that longer story and TFA. A very weak and crumbling Resistance was finally cornered and on the verge of collapse (again, very similar to ESB). They tried to flee and failed, then the realistic nature of fuel stopped them from doing much more than a slow chase. The rebel admiral's plan was obvious at the end. She was stalling for location and time to get all of the other ships in a place and situation so she could sacrifice the main cruiser so all the hidden smaller ships could get to a site they could remain safe. It was a good plan actually. She then had to keep up the perception of the cruiser continuing to run before the new order could destroy it thinking they got them all. Of course, that failed due to Finn's actions (actual reason for his sub-plot) so she took a very risky kamikaze plan that happened to work extremely well. (I loved that scene)
4. Kylo Ren is awesome and someone not liking his character clearly doesn't understand what they are watching. Like Anakin and Luke before him, he is a very emotional and confused individual. More like Anakin that emotion and confusion drove him to the power and presumably emotional comfort of the dark side. Both of these movies he has been battling internally on what is the right path for him to take which we found out in this movie, was greatly pursued by an absentee father and an uncle who tried to kill him. (notice he didn't pull trigger on mom) Yet, his pivotal moment was when Rey shows him affection, trust, and true confidence that he is a good person. His imbalanced emotional state combined with the dick-headed-ness of Snoke then drove him to effectively fake Snoke into not realizing what Kylo was actually doing (i.e. not prepping to kill Rey but instead Snoke). This was also a mirror to the Darth Vader redemption area where Vader was making the same choices in RotJ.
People continually fail to grasp the emotional state of Anakin, Luke, and now Kylo Ren. Eps 1~3 didn't do a great job of focusing on Anakin's emotional state that included continued loss of family, continued rejection by Jedi, continued conflict between only father figure/mentor in obi wan, rising friction with his childhood love in padame, and finally with the only figure that has remained steadfast in his long time support (much like a sexual predator does to kids). Fact is, Anakin's fall is obvious though not well illustrated in 1~3. Why did I bring this up? Luke and Kylo Ren are similar. Family issues (dad primarily) and in Kylo Ren's case, betrayal by Jedi and an assumed comfort / love from the dark side. Kylo Ren's character is very deep and I am excited to see how that plays out in ep9. He has affection for his mom (who will be dead) and clearly has mixed affection for Rey (who is his supporter but also nemesis).
TFA and TLJ are excellent SW movies, but like every single one, they both have areas/stories/characters that could have been better illustrated.
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