Forums - Movies Discussion - George Lucas Was Right About the Star Wars Fanbase

gigaSheik said:
George Lucas doesn't understand the SW fanbase since Episode I.

It doesn't matter. George Lucas doesn't make movies for the fans. He makes movies for himself, though Revenge of the Sith did have more fan service than the other two prequels did. Still, as a creator, George Lucas couldn't make the same exact movie over again, nor could he let the fans dictate his movies for him. This is why he eventually left Star Wars and Lucasfilm behind. Star Wars as a franchise and Lucasfilm as a company was no longer in a position where an experimental filmmaker from the '70s could run the show. 



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mZuzek said:
Goodnightmoon said:

the only kind of movie you watch are this kind of huge blockbusters made to be liked by the masses you simply don't know better

Oh okay so we're just jumping to conclusions now, alright.

Look dude, I've seen many different kinds of movies over the life. I mostly watch blockbusters, yeah, but I've also seen lots of animated (and anime) films, smaller indie movies, and foreign movies from many different places. Some of my favorite movies are Empire Strikes Back (huge blockbuster), Rango (rather forgotten animation) and Inglorious Basterds (semi-indie I guess), and I don't care what the hell you think of those.

So i was right, you

I don't think Star Wars 1/2/3 are better than The Force Awakens, but for the most part I personally do enjoy them more because I get more invested in the worlds and the ideas they bring to the table, and can get behind those even if the execution is mostly terrible - I can always go back to watch those and be amazed at the creations they and only they brought to the world of Star Wars, whereas if I'm gonna watch TFA I'd rather just go back to ANH for really obvious reasons.

Also, I'd hardly say TFA was greatly executed either. The script is fine I guess, and the acting is fine too, but they don't get a lot farther than that. There's absolutely no reason to be invested in any of the characters when they're a random ex-stormtrooper who turns out to be a super generic black dude stereotype and a super amazing rebel pilot who is super awesome and happy and nice and handsome (and they both become BFF's in like 2 seconds despite being in opposing factions and all), and a Mary Sue who can pretty much instantly solve any problem ever - which, you know, doesn't do a whole lot for the plot when it's ever so clear she's just always going to come out on top of everything. And there were also a few terribly written/performed moments in the movie, like the cringy debate between Finn and Rey at Maz Kanata's place (sorry, but "come away with me" just never works) or the absolutely awful discussion between Han and Leia about Luke and Kylo and whatever the Emperor 2.0's name was.

...and if you think Britney Spears is what terrible music's like, you really don't understand a thing. See, there is this thing called industry (pretty sure Britney Spears is a part of it), and the way it works is, they take successful formulas and repeat them, in a way they know it'll never come off too bad. If ever they have an issue or think something isn't good enough, they'll settle it around a committee of experienced writers and investors and all that stuff to decide what's best for the business. You know what else sounds a lot like this? The Force Awakens. A movie that is perfectly fine and watchable, but devoid of any creativity.

In fact, usually the worst music, as well as the worst anything, comes from genuine artistic works, because that's where one person might be dragged too far into their own vision to understand their mistakes or they try to experiment so far out there that inevitably their work just becomes an incomprehensible mess. That sounds a lot like the Star Wars prequels, actually - but it's just the nature of playing safe vs. taking risks. One will always have mild success or failure, whereas the other is bound to a much wider range of effectiveness.

If you really think GotG Vol. 2 has no emotion I really just recommend watching this video (and knowing you, inevitably disregard anything it says). I'm sure this movie probably didn't do anything for you, and that's fine, because it's you know, your taste dude. But personally, having seen and enjoyed movies of all kinds I can say this movie evokes stronger feelings in me than anything else in art, not just movies, by a mile.

Edit: also, I'm going to sleep now (thankfully), so, bye.

Ok I just realized this conversation leads nowhere, your first paragraph already says everything, you only watch mainstream cinema as I said before. Also you didn't understood my point with the Britney Spears example at all, I never said it was horrible music but is laughable to believe is the best kind of music out there. Also to say TFA is not well executed even when is now being studied as a perfect example of great visual storytelling ... yeah, you really don't know what good execution means, you also believe that SW 1-2-3 are bad because they took many risks instead of because they are horribly directed by one of the laziest directors on Earth (something that people that works with him usually says) which makes this conversation pontentially impossible without having to explain you the very basics of cinema and it makes no fucking sense because those movies didn't take any big risks from a cinematographic or a narrative pov to beging with at all, you took that out of nowhere.

And no, GoTG has no deep emotions to it at all, it doesn't mean that is an emotionless movie but it doesn't take itself seriously enough to be emotionally deep, only someone that never watches anything other than the usual american blockbusters would believe a movie like GoTG is emotionally deep.

Last edited by Goodnightmoon - on 19 December 2017

TLJ is similar to the Prequels in that it's just a soulless cash grab created in a board room whose only goal is to check all the boxes to maximize its box office dollars by reaching the widest audience possible worldwide.

The difference between the Prequels and the new Trilogy is that while the Prequels were confined to an existing plot arc that was already well known (the rise and fall of Anakin Skywalker), the producers basically had a clean slate with the new Trilogy. Yet so far though, they've managed to make two movies of varying quality, one of which is basically a beat-for-beat remake of A New Hope with some new characters and a couple dangling sub plot lines, and the other which decides to completely throw its own predecessor's subplots out the window trying to blaze its own path while further continuing the trend of ruining fan favorite characters in the process.

I get SW fans are fickle (especial the long time diehards) and you're never going to please everyone with the new films, but it's sure starting to look like Disney's going to run the franchise right into the ground with their annual installments of sequels, spin offs, soft reboots, etc.



On 2/24/13, MB1025 said:
You know I was always wondering why no one ever used the dollar sign for $ony, but then I realized they have no money so it would be pointless.

Goodnightmoon said:
mZuzek said:

Oh okay so we're just jumping to conclusions now, alright.

Look dude, I've seen many different kinds of movies over the life. I mostly watch blockbusters, yeah, but I've also seen lots of animated (and anime) films, smaller indie movies, and foreign movies from many different places. Some of my favorite movies are Empire Strikes Back (huge blockbuster), Rango (rather forgotten animation) and Inglorious Basterds (semi-indie I guess), and I don't care what the hell you think of those.

So i was right, you

Ok I just realized this conversation leads nowhere, your first paragraph already says everything, you only watch mainstream cinema as I said before, and you didn't understood my point with the Britney Spears example at all, I never said it was horrible music but is laughable to believe is the best kind of music out there. Also to say TFA is not well executed even when is now being studied as a perfect example of great visual storytelling ... yeah, you really don't know what good execution means, you also believe that SW 1-2-3 are bad because they took many risks instead of because they are horribly directed by one of the laziest directors on Earth (something that everyone that has worked with him says) which makes this conversation pontentially impossible without having to explain you the very basics of everything and it makes no fucking sense because those movies didn't take any big risks from a cinematographic pov to beging with.

And no, GoTG has no deep emotions to it at all, it doesn't mean that is an emotionless movie but it doesn't take itself seriously enough to be emotionally deep, only someone that never watches anything other than the usual american blockbusters would believe a movie like GoTG is emotionally deep.

Okay, I lied to myself, I'm still awake. This is really the last one, though.

Thanks for showing you truly have absolutely no interest in understanding other people's points of view, and conveniently twisting arguments for your own benefit.

Empire Strikes Back, Rango, Inglorious Basterds and a few more blockbuster movies are what I'd call my favorite movies I've watched. See, I said favorite. That doesn't mean I don't watch other stuff, even if I mostly stay on the mainstream stuff because I like it more... and it's a crazy thing you know, mainstream stuff can be actually fucking good - I don't really understand where this stupid notion comes from that mainstream movies are just whatever, especially coming from a gaming forum where most people's favorite games are absolutely 100% mainstream. One of my favorite movies of 2015 (I think it was 2015) is Room by the way, I wouldn't call that mainstream, but whatever.

I also never said the Star Wars prequels' direction and writing isn't a reason why they're bad, in fact I'm almost sure I said they are. The "taking risks" point was one in general applicable to any personal work of art, not necessarily Star Wars. I do think the prequels were horribly written and directed, but to say they took no risks is quite crazy, because they did take Star Wars in a very different direction regardless of if it was poorly executed or not. Also, lol at TFA being a "perfect example of visual storytelling", holy god where've we gotten to.

Also, comparing Britney Spears to Guardians of the Galaxy is quite ridiculous. When you're talking about Britney Spears, you're talking about a big popstar in what is by far the most streamlined and soulless industry in all of art, one where most "artists" barely have a say in what songs they're making and in fact probably know very little about songwriting itself - quite unlike the movie industry, where it feels like in at least 50% of the largest blockbuster movies there's still some sense that at least someone at some point there had a cool idea they really wanted to go along with. It's only natural, actually, that the industries would evolve this way, because it takes far more effort to make a movie than a song, so movies are harder to mass produce.

Anyway, it's obvious as fuck you didn't watch the video I sent you. Guardians of the Galaxy does have deep emotion whether you let it in or not, and most of it in fact comes from its light-heartedness - but I guess a pretensious ass like yours could never have any appreciation for something that's self-aware, because you obviously aren't either. I know it's hard (impossible) for you to accept, but if any movie evokes strong and deep feelings on anyone, that means it does have deep emotion, even if it won't get to everyone. I mean, this sounds incredibly stupid to debate - "deep emotion" is fucking obviously something you can't measure, it is a completely subjective thing and as such it'll hit some and miss others. So, just accept people have different opinions and get on with it.

Good-fucking-bye.

Last edited by mZuzek - on 19 December 2017

The film had unrealistic expectations to meet. I thought it was good because it started to build something new.



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I love the whole "I loved it because it expanded the universe and tried something new"

So did the Ewoks Movie. Do you love it too?

Seriously, it was a bad movie and a bad star wars. Ep VII was a decent movie but not quite a good star wars, but at least it was well directed and the story made sense.

TLJ is a mess.



mZuzek said:
Goodnightmoon said:

Ok I just realized this conversation leads nowhere, your first paragraph already says everything, you only watch mainstream cinema as I said before, and you didn't understood my point with the Britney Spears example at all, I never said it was horrible music but is laughable to believe is the best kind of music out there. Also to say TFA is not well executed even when is now being studied as a perfect example of great visual storytelling ... yeah, you really don't know what good execution means, you also believe that SW 1-2-3 are bad because they took many risks instead of because they are horribly directed by one of the laziest directors on Earth (something that everyone that has worked with him says) which makes this conversation pontentially impossible without having to explain you the very basics of everything and it makes no fucking sense because those movies didn't take any big risks from a cinematographic pov to beging with.

And no, GoTG has no deep emotions to it at all, it doesn't mean that is an emotionless movie but it doesn't take itself seriously enough to be emotionally deep, only someone that never watches anything other than the usual american blockbusters would believe a movie like GoTG is emotionally deep.

Okay, I lied to myself, I'm still awake. This is really the last one, though.

Thanks for showing you truly have absolutely no interest in understanding other people's points of view, and conveniently twisting arguments for your own benefit.

Empire Strikes Back, Rango, Inglorious Basterds and a few more blockbuster movies are what I'd call my favorite movies I've watched. See, I said favorite. That doesn't mean I don't watch other stuff, even if I mostly stay on the mainstream stuff because I like it more... and it's a crazy thing you know, mainstream stuff can be actually fucking good - I don't really understand where this stupid notion comes from that mainstream movies are just whatever, especially coming from a gaming forum where most people's favorite games are absolutely 100% mainstream. One of my favorite movies of 2015 (I think it was 2015) is Room by the way, I wouldn't call that mainstream, but whatever.

I also never said the Star Wars prequels' direction and writing isn't a reason why they're bad, in fact I'm almost sure I said they are. The "taking risks" point was one in general applicable to any personal work of art, not necessarily Star Wars. I do think the prequels were horribly written and directed, but to say they took no risks is quite crazy, because they did take Star Wars in a very different direction regardless of if it was poorly executed or not. Also, lol at TFA being a "perfect example of visual storytelling", holy god where've we gotten to.

Also, comparing Britney Spears to Guardians of the Galaxy is quite ridiculous. When you're talking about Britney Spears, you're talking about a big popstar in what is by far the most streamlined and soulless industry in all of art, one where most "artists" barely have a say in what songs they're making and in fact probably know very little about songwriting itself - quite unlike the movie industry, where it feels like in at least 50% of the largest blockbuster movies there's still some sense that at least someone at some point there had a cool idea they really wanted to go along with. It's only natural, actually, that the industries would evolve this way, because it takes far more effort to make a movie than a song, so movies are harder to mass produce.

Anyway, it's obvious as fuck you didn't watch the video I sent you. Guardians of the Galaxy does have deep emotion whether you let it in or not, and most of it in fact comes from its light-heartedness - but I guess a pretensious ass like yours could never have any appreciation for something that's self-aware, because you obviously aren't either. I know it's hard (impossible) for you to accept, but if any movie evokes strong and deep feelings on anyone, that means it does have deep emotion, even if it won't get to everyone. I mean, this sounds incredibly stupid to debate - "deep emotion" is fucking obviously something you can't measure, it is a completely subjective thing and as such it'll hit some and miss others. So, just accept people have different opinions and get on with it.

Good-fucking-bye.

Yes TFA is a great example of good visual storytelling, your "lol" only leaves you in evidence in front of anyone with any kind of knowledge in the subject, the movie its so good in that regard that you could play it on japanese and still understand everything that's going on by just watching it, but yeah, what can I expect from someone that believes Guardians of the Galaxy is an emotionally deep film with high artistic values and that Britney Spears has no freedom to choose their own writters/producers for a 1m$ album but a completely random director that nobody knew few years ago has a lot of freedom to do whatever he wants in a 200m$ movie.

Oh and your conclusion that I believe mainstream stuff is bad just when I'm talking positively of one of the most mainstream movies ever made in the same post is truly brilliant and it makes total sense.... You really have a hard time understanding my points, you want to talk about artistic and creative value in cinema when you rarely watch any movie that stands out for any of those qualities to beging with since almost everything you watch are american blockbusters which makes your knowledge (and by extension your taste) extremelly limited, that's where my example about the kid that only listens to the pop hits of the radio comes from, is not that those hits are bad, but if that's the only thing he listents to then he knows very little about music.

Last edited by Goodnightmoon - on 19 December 2017

JWeinCom said: 

1.  Again, without seeing the scene again, I can't really comment much further.  It depends how long she was out, and I'd still have to double check to see if it was her or Kylo doing it.

2.  It was very explicitly stated.  

3.  I think it was made clear that Finn's plan was not going to work.  I'd also have to watch this scene again, but it didn't seem like he would have made it there, as his ship was already melting on the way.  I'd have to see the scene again, but I'm fairly sure the implication was that he was playing hero for the sake of playing hero, and Rose saves him from an ultimately doomed plan.  

As you point out, Luke had a meaningful conversation with his sister.  And what did he say in that conversation?  He said, "nobody is ever gone" (or something to that effect) before giving her Han's dice.  The implication is obviously that people live on in our memories.  Why give her them at that moment?  Obviously, to let Leia know that he doesn't plan on making out alive.  It's a more subtle, more aesthetic, and more memorable way to express his plan.  

Leia knows Luke doesn't intend to make it out alive.  So, what exactly would she have done?  Luke can trust that Leia has common sense and is going to figure leave.  And also, let's keep in mind, that Leia is literally the only person there who Luke knows and is the leader of the resistance.  It would be weird for him to strike up conversations with a bunch of new folks.

I'm not saying it wouldn't have made more sense to say his plan explicitly, because it would have.  It would have also been far less interesting.  What was done still falls well within the realm of suspension of disbelief.

4.  In the end of episode three, after Yoda says this, I'm 99% sure Obi Wan name drops Qui Gon.  But, whether he does or not, it's clear what they're talking about.  It's the very end of the prequels, so there's not going to be any payoff in that series, which means they're referring to something from the originals.   Since the force apparitions are the only thing we see that relates to communing with the dead, that must be what they're talking about. 

5.  I never said that was exclusive to them.  Neither Anakin, Yoda, or Obi Wan seemed to have the ability to communicate directly over a distance, aside from being dead.

Where does he get the ability?  By practicing I guess.  I'm not sure what you're expecting here.  Are you looking for something like Naruto, where they introduce a new technique, and then have a 20 minute flashback for making of the technique?  Like, a scene of him meditating and practicing telepathy? If that's the kind of storytelling you prefer fine, but that doesn't make this a plothole.  If we did it that way, they'd never be able to introduce any new kinds of force techniques, like force lightning, in Episode VI which was also introduced suddenly and surprisingly.  We haven't seen every potential force ability yet, and only a few that involve the dark side. 

We also don't know that other people can't do this.  It's not a particularly useful technique.  They already have the technology to communicate over long distance which is far simpler.  It's only used here because the Emperor is using it to draw Rey to him, and because Rey and Kylo have a special connection.  But it's not like a replacement for cell phones. 

Jedi being a myth makes about as much sense as the 1960s being a myth to us.  Luke was born at the end of the Clone Wars, and he's in his mid 20s by the end of ROTJ.  There have been 30 years in the interim, so we're at most 60 years removed from the Jedi order being a pretty big thing in the galaxy.

  At the beginning of a New Hope, there are people alive who have seen and interacted with Jedi.  Leia's father is one, and Jabba is another.  And when Jabba coins the term "Jedi mind trick", no body seems to doubt Jedis are an actual thing.  In Rogue one we see that there is a whole sect of monk like people who know of and use the force. A random smuggled may not know,  but the even if there was a concerted effort from the Republic to stifle knowledge of the Jedi, it would have been nearly impossible to do so. 

It's never stated, but Snoke's design definitely conveys age.  He was quite likely alive during the Clone Wars.  It's not unlikely at all that he'd have access to information regarding the force.

 

 

You repeated yourself again, but these still aren't plotholes.  Some of these things actually were clearly explained but you missed the explanation.  The one you keep coming back to is Snoke, but that's based on the faulty assumption that in a galaxy of millions, there can only be two people utilizing the dark side of the force, but that is never stated.  It in fact seems highly unlikely that in a galaxy of at least millions (presumably trillions) there would be only two people.

...I keep coming back to all of these, because they all bother me to a degree (except for 2, although that brings up another issue that I tied into #4). I'm not sure where the claim that Snoke is the one I continually reference. And, again, I'm not sure what point you're trying to make by saying "these aren't plotholes." Are you arguing that these claims, even if my logic does hold up, aren't plotholes, or just that my logic is flawed and therefore it isn't a plothole?

#1: Then I'd invite you to look over it whenever you get a chance. I don't believe Kylo is ever shown during the scene, so I don't think there would be any reason to assume his involvement.

#3: Again, I'm not sure how it's any less interesting to say "Hey everyone, I'm gonna stall for time, get out." If you need a flair for the dramatic, he could deliver some kind of speech on how he's going to pay for his mistakes so that others can live, and that the resistance shouldn't repeat his same shortcomings. As I mentioned in my previous post, in what world does publicly addressing people suddenly become not cool?

Or, for fuck's sake, tell Leia the plan and she can communicate it to the rest of the resistance if he's so afraid of doing something "weird" in the middle of a life and death situation by talking to people he doesn't know. You argue that Luke could trust Leia to have common sense and figure out that she is supposed to make a run for it...but she doesn't. Poe is the one who figures it out, if memory serves. If it was left up to Leia figuring it out, the resistance would've sat there and burned.

#2+4 now: Keep in mind that the technique we're talking (or at least I was) about here is communicating over vast distances, not with the dead. So you're right that Yoda and Obi-Wan discuss Qui-Gon and some technique he's discussed, and that it's probably the force ghost thing, but that has nothing to do with the original issue; which was how Luke managed to project himself across the galaxy.

You mentioned in a previous post that: Luke however, unlike the others, still has something to do in this world.  So he is able to partially give himself to the force, essentially leaving him halfway between life and death, which is why his force apparition is more corporeal.  

Unless I missed something blatant in the movie, this is just speculation, at which point, yes, it does become a plothole. When a certain established character or power somehow gains the ability to do something which they were unable to do before without a stated or easily inferred explanation as to why, it becomes a plothole.

I'll reference a previous example of what I would argue is a similar "plothole by absence of information," or something that is a plothole because of the lack of an adequately stated reason. Retro Studios acknowledged a plothole in the original Metroid Prime involving Space Pirates ran into a creature that other lore seemed to suggest would have been difficult to reach because they were having trouble getting inside the location where the creature was when Samus finds it. There could've been a myriad of inferred explanations for this; perhaps the creature simply found a way out of its cavern that the Pirates missed, or perhaps it has some unstated teleportation power, etc. Despite all the possible explanations that could have been made by fans, it was acknowledged as a plothole by professional storywriters and ultimately changed for subsequent re-releases. This sort of plothole by absence of information is very much a plothole.

Which brings me to...

#5: To put it plainly, I'm searching for some explanation as to how this extremely powerful guy, with incredible mastery of the force and powers that we've never seen before, just showed up with no explanation whatsoever and suddenly took command of the remains of the Empire, all while never being sensed by either the Emperor or Darth Vader. Keep in mind that, in Episode V, the Emperor was able to not only determine that there was a new force user alive, but also that he was Darth Vader's son. And that was based on the limited ability Luke had developed up to that point. As far as I know, the force doesn't work like a cell phone network, where you can only detect things if they're within a certain radius. And, if it is for some reason, there should be an explanation why. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I had kind of thought the idea of Anakin bringing balance to the force was the entirety of the force, not bringing balance to the force within your 10 light year radius and only until some other evil asshole shows up from the next galactic cluster over.

This falls into the issue of plothole by absence of information. Imagine if, say, there was a sequel to the Return of the King where some villain even more powerful than Sauron showed up with no explanation as to who he was, where he came from, or why he didn't show up before, and started commanding the same army Sauron did. We'd be thoroughly criticizing that, and yet here it's somehow excusable.

To the other points within #5

A: I'm more talking about where he learned the ability. Is there some secret dark side support group on the opposite side of the galaxy that just somehow went undetected during the entirety of Palpatine's reign? Again, plothole by absence of information.

B: I don't think it's ridiculous at all. To borrow an example from history, the Azerbaijian government, through propaganda and historical negationism, had essentially erased the Armenian Genocide from public memory by at least the 1980s, a mere 65-75 years. The example that you mention of us not knowing what the 1960s were like today...was reality in certain parts of the world, and may very well still be.

Admittedly, there are differences between the two situations. The Empire has a lot more ground to cover; it's presumably harder to control information for an entire galaxy than for a single country. But, simultaneously, when I say "myth" I don't necessarily mean "never existed at all." More like the tales of people using the force are just fabricated and the Jedi were some group whose stories were exaggerated to be things that weren't really the case. I think this is reasonably well supported in ANH, when one Empire council member (not sure what the position title is) refers to Darth Vader as having a "sad devotion to an ancient religion." It's pretty clear that he doesn't think much of the force, and I suspect the same is true of Han. I have no doubt that there are some people/beings who interacted with Jedi beforehand, like Jabba, who believes in the force (although tbh I'm not entirely convinced he wasn't just mocking him), but those people are likely in the minority.

And additionally, if it's been 60 years since the Clone Wars ended, then it's not unreasonable at all to assume that this could be a minority. If you don't properly begin remembering things since you're about 6-7 years old, then at youngest anyone who remembers the Jedi at this point will be 66-67 years old. The vast majority will likely be dead by this point. And given the absence of the Jedi ever since, they aren't being replaced by many eyewitnesses who can attest to the Jedi's existence. With the control of information that the Empire and now the First Order have, that's bound to decrease the number of people that know of them significantly.

All of that to say, it would be really difficult for Snoke to access information surrounding the force, especially given the Empire's control. Even more difficult to access information surrounding the dark side.



If anything, I felt the biggest fault of the movie was that it crept out into uncharted territory, then scurried right back to safety.

*Spoilers*

Rey and Ren should've destroyed the whole thing--Sith, Jedi, Rebellion, First Order, and started fresh.

I can't believe they didn't keep going in that direction. They just teased around the idea, abandoned some of the dumber/useless things in TFA (Rey's parents MacGuffin and Snoak), suggested heavily that it wouldn't be as formulaic, and then set up a beautiful scenario where the two major Force-wielders in the movie actually team up instead of fighting each other. If they just let the past die and set up a new balance or whatever and pave the way for a brand new story, that would've been great.

But once Rey pulled a fast one on him, the movie just abandoned all kinds of potential. It positioned itself so well for new storytelling, but instead they went right back to Rebels-Jedi/Empire-Sith junk. That was the most disappointing part for me.

It was alright though. It wasn't bad, but I don't think I'd watch it again.



I made a list in the other thread. Just posting it here for the fun of it. The movie was awful.

1: Gravity in space.
2: Poe's arc goes nowhere.
3: Casino bay was all for nothing.
4: Luke is a bad teacher.
5: Somehow I have to care about moral gray area regarding the jedi and the rebels/resistance. Fuck off.
6: Yoda speak complete unbroken sentences.
7: I don't care for Rey. She is an overpowered mary-sue. This movie cements that. Backstory ruined her for me.
8: Ackbar dies unceremoniously, but fuck him, we have Admiral gender studies or Loldo that shows up from nowhere and we are supposed to care about her.
9: Rose is useless, also, yin and yang? Really? Wrong sister died btw.
10: So many un-starwarsy shots: Slow-motion, extreme close ups, long drawn out scenes.
11: The plot and battle are basically straight out of a Star Wars Rebels episode.
12: Super weapons are useless, since anyone can kamikaze hypedrive the fuck out of them.
13: Porgs are annoying, Chewy is reduces to comic relief with porgs.
14: Hardly any R2 and C3PO scenes. Hello?
15: BB8 the superdroid can take on the first order himself.
16: How the hell did the resistance get reduced to 40 people? Where's everyone?
17: Snoke was cool, but wasted and dead. Basically Snope.
18: Leia Supermans out of space.
19: Dumb 1940 style bombers. So Y-Wings not useful anymore? What happened to them?
20: Luke never taught the third lesson.
21: Titmonsters and blue milk.
22: Benicio del Toro is useless.
23: Finn should have sacrificed himself.
24: "Chrome Dome"
25: Death of not-Boba.
26: Kylo is now the main villain. The guy that lost against the mary-sue.
27: Huxtable is reduced to comic relief.
28: The humor is Disney Marvel humor. I thought they were all gonna go for Shawarma afterwards.
29: Animals rights for kangeroo horses.
30: Jedi books. So what happened to holocrons?
31: The Rebel emblem thrown in your face at points.
32: Force sensitive stable boy with broom lightsaber. Who? Why? Who cares.
33: Leia survives. Luke doesn't.
34: Why does Luke force project himself? Just go there.
35: Flat iron troll shot.
36: Pointless shots like the soldier taking a taste of the salt on the surface.
37: Movie is too long.
38: Weak reasoning on Luke and Ben history.
39: Maz Kanada video game hologram.
40: Let go of the past.... Kill the past.... member the Rebels?
41: The Luke shoulder swipe.
42: Snope's body falling and his tongue out like some cartoon.
43: What are all the other first order ships doing?
44: If Luke didn't want to be found, how come there was a map?
45: Stupid salt foxes. It was all CG. I don't care that they had some puppet model they didn't use. It was CG.
46: 75% of all fighter pilots are female. If this isn't gender politics, I don't know what is.
47: Dumb island nun aliens.
48: Over reliance on trinkets. The cubes, the yin-yang, the rebel insignia ring.
49: Walkers do nothing. They just walk and then stand. Oh, they shoot at ghost Luke. Wow.
50: Why didn't loldo just tell Poe what they were going to do?