Forums - Movies Discussion - George Lucas Was Right About the Star Wars Fanbase

Angelus said:
I'm sure there's more than few Star Wars fans out there who hate this movie for the wrong reasons, but lets not pretend there aren't plenty of objectively valid reasons to dislike it.

No arguments there. Most of the feedback I've heard from those disliking the movie stems from a didn't "feel" like Empire. Many of those same voices were singing the praises of "Awakens". I have a feeling that general perception of the film should improve over time. Many of the biggest problems with the movie were one's carried over from "Awakens". Perhaps if it were more focused, it might have addressed some of those in more satisfying ways.



Retro Tech Select - My Youtube channel. Covers throwback consumer electronics with a focus on "vid'ya games."

Latest Video: Make Your Switch Games Sharper! Improve Picture Quality without Hacks or Mods – Bit Sized, Episode 4

Around the Network

I liked it alot. 

 

TFA was basically comfort food.  It was fun and enjoyable, and pretty much exactly what you would expect from a Star Wars movie.  Not a bad thing necessarily, but I enjoyed it, and than had no strong feelings about it an hour later.

 

After reestablishing the Star Wars formula, the Last Jedi broke tons of conventions.  They questioned the wisdom of the foolhardy heroes rushing headlong into danger, questioned whether everyone could or should be saved, and so on (I'd give specific examples, but spoilers.  A few plotlines should have been trimmed down, but ultimately it was engaging.  I didn't really know what would happen, and that's basically the first time I could say that in a Star Wars movie.

 

*Spoilers*

After TFA, one would think that there would be a number of priorities for its sequel. Fleshing out the characters of Snoke, Finn, and Rey. Give Phasma some screen time after she was so thoroughly ignored in TFA. TLJ gets around to, at best, two of these, and one hardly counts considering that they take the time to characterize Snoke and then proceed to immediately kill him off. What is the point of establishing an Emperor-esque figure that is so much more powerful than everyone if you're just going to off him not even halfway into the trilogy?

On top of this, there are plot holes on top of plot holes, probably as a result of the movie trying to juggle so many plot points. Why can Leia magically float through space now? How did Rey develop competent lightsaber wielding and force using skills within the span of a day of lessons? It took Anakin years to get there, so what makes Rey so special beyond simply having "raw power." Why does Luke not tell the resistance that he's going to buy time for them to escape, and instead has to rely on Poe being able to intuit his plan? Why does creating a projection of himself kill Luke? Where the hell did Snoke come from, and how did he get to be such a powerful force user? And still, how the hell did Luke/Anakin's old lightsaber wind up in Lemon Head's possession? Again, these could have been addressed if TLJ made better use of its time. But it didn't, and now Episode IX has a ton of baggage from the previous two movies along with whatever storyline it carries out, and chances are a significant portion of these will be dropped and never heard from again

"Plot Holes"

*Spoiler warning again*.

1.  The Force.  Leia is established as exceptionally force sensitive in ROTJ if not earlier.  We see her using some degree of basic force abilities in Force Awakens.  We've seen force powers used through instinct before (i.e. Anakin and Luke's piloting skills, Rey's ability to use the Jedi mind trick, etc).  Floating through space would only require the slightest nudge (since nothing would stop her momentum), so I could buy it.  I think it looked silly, but I have no conceptual objections.

I actually have to rewatch this scene, cause thinking back on it, I'd like to double check and see if Kylo is pushing Leia.  Because, that would be well within his abilities.  

2.  Luke is blocking laser shots blindfolded within a day of meeting Obi Wan.  Her force powers really aren't a tremendous leap forward from TFA, so if you want to call it a plot hole, call it one for that movie.  But in this one, she doesn't seem to be doing anything mindblowingly impressive in comparison.

Furthermore though, Snoke explains that her power is also related to Ren's.  They pretty directly explain that there is a balance between light and darkness (I forget the line exactly), so as one grows in strength the other does.  This would also kind of explain why Anakin was so much slower to learn than Luke or Rey, considering the amount of Jedi and the balance of power in the force at the time.  Since Rey is almost solely responsible for balancing against the dark side at this point, the force power is stronger in her than it normally would be imo.

3.  If there's a plothole here, it's that the rebels didn't figure it out sooner.  It's kind of obvious.  They, especially Leia, have a pretty good sense of what a Jedi is capable of.  There would be no reason for them to expect that Luke is going to singlehandedly decimate Ren's forces.  

And honestly, it would just be far less cool if Luke said it.  When Hitchcock was asked why one of his characters didn't just go to the police, he said because it'd be boring.  That principle is at play.  It makes for a more exciting movie.  

4.  They actually allude to this early in the movie, with Ren asking Rey (I think, may have been the other way around) how she can communicate as they do without being dead.  But, this is basically an application of the force ghost shizzy that we've seen since Empire.  When Jedi truly become "one with the force" they can appear as a projection basically wherever they want ala Obi Wan or Yoda.  Luke however, unlike the others, still has something to do in this world.  So he is able to partially give himself to the force, essentially leaving him halfway between life and death, which is why his force apparition is more corporeal.  

This kind of thing isn't a plotholes.  It's something that's not explained fully, but we know enough that we could fill in the blanks.  We have seen projection as an ability used specifically by dead Jedi, but is not able to be used while they are alive.  From there we could figure out the rest.

5.  Who cares?  Snoke's past is not relevant to understanding the plot in anyway.  It may be interesting, or may be not, but it doesn't have much bearing on the events in the last jedi, so if you are concerned about too many plot threads, I don't really know why you'd push for this.

Bear in mind, we didn't know anything about the Emperor in episodes IV-VI.  We only find his backstory, and even then we never find out why he's especially powerful, in the prequels.  And really, did that add much to the originals?  Maybe they'll have some movies to fill in the space between VI and VII, but it's really not important here.

Last edited by JWeinCom - on 17 December 2017

JWeinCom said: 

3.  If there's a plothole here, it's that the rebels
And honestly, it would just be far less cool if Luke said it.  When Hitchcock was asked why one of his characters didn't just go to the police, he said because it'd be boring.  That principle is at play.  It makes for a more exciting movie.

 

Thank you for bringing up this quote. It's lost far too often. There's a logic and language to film that isn't 1:1 with reality. 

Another Hitchcock quote about plot holes: "I’m not interested in logic, I’m interested in effect. If the audience ever thinks about logic, it’s on their way home after the show, and by that time, you see, they’ve paid for their tickets."

A little cynical but I think it speaks to a fundamental truth about filmmaking.



I love how George is sarcastic.
Basically laughing at those screaming shit at his job and now they get real shit with the new trilogy.



Proud to be the first cool Nintendo fan ever

Number ONE Zelda fan in the Universe

DKCTF didn't move consoles

Prediction: No Zelda HD for Wii U, quietly moved to the succesor

Predictions for Nintendo NX and Mobile


JWeinCom said: 

After TFA, one would think that there would be a number of priorities for its sequel. Fleshing out the characters of Snoke, Finn, and Rey. Give Phasma some screen time after she was so thoroughly ignored in TFA. TLJ gets around to, at best, two of these, and one hardly counts considering that they take the time to characterize Snoke and then proceed to immediately kill him off. What is the point of establishing an Emperor-esque figure that is so much more powerful than everyone if you're just going to off him not even halfway into the trilogy?

On top of this, there are plot holes on top of plot holes, probably as a result of the movie trying to juggle so many plot points. Why can Leia magically float through space now? How did Rey develop competent lightsaber wielding and force using skills within the span of a day of lessons? It took Anakin years to get there, so what makes Rey so special beyond simply having "raw power." Why does Luke not tell the resistance that he's going to buy time for them to escape, and instead has to rely on Poe being able to intuit his plan? Why does creating a projection of himself kill Luke? Where the hell did Snoke come from, and how did he get to be such a powerful force user? And still, how the hell did Luke/Anakin's old lightsaber wind up in Lemon Head's possession? Again, these could have been addressed if TLJ made better use of its time. But it didn't, and now Episode IX has a ton of baggage from the previous two movies along with whatever storyline it carries out, and chances are a significant portion of these will be dropped and never heard from again

"Plot Holes"

*Spoiler warning again*.

1.  The Force.  Leia is established as exceptionally force sensitive in ROTJ if not earlier.  We see her using some degree of basic force abilities in Force Awakens.  We've seen force powers used through instinct before (i.e. Anakin and Luke's piloting skills, Rey's ability to use the Jedi mind trick, etc).  Floating through space would only require the slightest nudge (since nothing would stop her momentum), so I could buy it.  I think it looked silly, but I have no conceptual objections.

I actually have to rewatch this scene, cause thinking back on it, I'd like to double check and see if Kylo is pushing Leia.  Because, that would be well within his abilities.  

2.  Luke is blocking laser shots blindfolded within a day of meeting Obi Wan.  Her force powers really aren't a tremendous leap forward from TFA, so if you want to call it a plot hole, call it one for that movie.  But in this one, she doesn't seem to be doing anything mindblowingly impressive in comparison.

Furthermore though, Snoke explains that her power is also related to Ren's.  They pretty directly explain that there is a balance between light and darkness (I forget the line exactly), so as one grows in strength the other does.  This would also kind of explain why Anakin was so much slower to learn than Luke or Rey, considering the amount of Jedi and the balance of power in the force at the time.  Since Rey is almost solely responsible for balancing against the dark side at this point, the force power is stronger in her than it normally would be imo.

3.  If there's a plothole here, it's that the rebels didn't figure it out sooner.  It's kind of obvious.  They, especially Leia, have a pretty good sense of what a Jedi is capable of.  There would be no reason for them to expect that Luke is going to singlehandedly decimate Ren's forces.  

And honestly, it would just be far less cool if Luke said it.  When Hitchcock was asked why one of his characters didn't just go to the police, he said because it'd be boring.  That principle is at play.  It makes for a more exciting movie.  

4.  They actually allude to this early in the movie, with Ren asking Rey (I think, may have been the other way around) how she can communicate as they do without being dead.  But, this is basically an application of the force ghost shizzy that we've seen since Empire.  When Jedi truly become "one with the force" they can appear as a projection basically wherever they want ala Obi Wan or Yoda.  Luke however, unlike the others, still has something to do in this world.  So he is able to partially give himself to the force, essentially leaving him halfway between life and death, which is why his force apparition is more corporeal.  

This kind of thing isn't a plotholes.  It's something that's not explained fully, but we know enough that we could fill in the blanks.  We have seen projection as an ability used specifically by dead Jedi, but is not able to be used while they are alive.  From there we could figure out the rest.

5.  Who cares?  Snoke's past is not relevant to understanding the plot in anyway.  It may be interesting, or may be not, but it doesn't have much bearing on the events in the last jedi, so if you are concerned about too many plot threads, I don't really know why you'd push for this.

Bear in mind, we didn't know anything about the Emperor in episodes IV-VI.  We only find his backstory, and even then we never find out why he's especially powerful, in the prequels.  And really, did that add much to the originals?  Maybe they'll have some movies to fill in the space between VI and VII, but it's really not important here.

#1: I'm less concerned with the act of pushing herself as I am the idea of her being fully exposed in space without the bodily fluids inside her beginning to boil and causing severe long term damage, while I believe being unconscious, no less.

#2: I mean, I'd consider suddenly having the ability to communicate over galaxies to be a pretty significant step taken forward. But I'll get to that in #4.

#3: That's such a silly line of reasoning that doesn't make it any less of a plothole. If you're putting any kind of plan into effect that will literally determine whether a large group of people lives or dies, you don't just leave them to figure out your intentions. They might think that you're planning on summoning some other hitherto unmentioned force ability, or just not realize that they need to follow those crystal creatures to get out of the cave system, or perhaps just be so confused that they don't figure it out altogether. Even if you think it's the most obvious thing out there, there's no excuse for not communicating it when you lose nothing by doing so.

And honestly I'm not sure how telling people that you're buying time makes something less "cool." Luke's still out there, still holding up the First Order, still confusing Kylo Ren. Is having your allies stand around and be confused for a few minutes cool now? I can suspend some disbelief for the sake of having a plot in the first place, which I suspect is what Hitchcock was referring to, but this isn't that. The scene becomes no more or less meaningful with Luke just hoping that everyone figures it out.

#4: The problem here, as with most of the stuff in #2, is that there's a lack of consistency. If Force users have always been capable of projecting these kind of images or communicating across huge distances, why have we never seen active force users do so before? Seems like it would be a pretty useful tool to get a message out to other Jedi when Palpatine was busy having them all executed. If they haven't always been capable of doing so, why are Luke, Rey, and Kylo now suddenly capable? What makes them so much more competent than the myriad of Jedi with years of training that came before? What exactly is this "raw power" that Luke notes which presumably plays some kind of role in all this?

#5: The difference between the Emperor and Snoke is the difference in context. Having some virtually all powerful evil dude in the Original Trilogy works because we know next to nothing about the Sith. There could have been way more than just two Sith, hidden somewhere else, because there were no rules or guidelines established surrounding them. When the prequels roll around, guidelines are established; we know that there are only two Sith, and that they tend to be pretty cutthroat when it comes to the possibility of others infringing on their territory.

When the new trilogy rolls around, having a new, highly experienced force wielder who uses the dark side doesn't make a lot of sense. Where would he have come from? Who would have possibly trained him? I seriously doubt that Palpatine would have been willing to train yet another apprentice in secret. So we have suddenly have this incredibly powerful guy who has seemingly come out of nowhere to take control of the entire First Order and...no explanation whatsoever on where he got any of his powers. And the explanation is necessary here because of the context that the series has now.

As for why I care, it's because it seemingly goes against the established context of the universe. The less consistent your universe is in operating within the parameters it sets for itself, the less believable it becomes. And the less believable it becomes, the less reason I have to care about any of the stakes in these movies. If these all powerful force beings can just spring up out of seemingly nowhere, why should I care at all about what happens to Rey or Kylo? Who's to say that another highly skilled force wielder that we've never heard of and is only appearing now for some reason won't just suddenly pop up to save/destroy the galaxy next? Who's to say that there isn't some other force sensitive kid who will pop up out of nowhere to save the galaxy? When you discard the rules that you set forth for yourself, your universe becomes an utterly arbitrary place where anything can happen for the sake of whatever plot device seems coolest to the director.



Around the Network

This is all meh.

TFA and TLJ are both awesome SW movies. I think no matter what is made you are going to have some people upset because something in the movie doesn't meet their expectations. With TFA it was the ridiculous whining about similarities to prev movies and last fight scenes, with this one... idk actually as I have yet to see many gripes on it.



It felt disjointed and not nearly as well-directed as IV-VII; it suffers from an almost manic schizophrenia, always jumping from set piece to set piece with plot points that are illogical and pointless. Mark Hamill was right about Luke and the ways in which Rian mishandled the character. When people say that it didn't feel like a Star Wars film, they are correct and justified in saying so: if a Saw movie came out and the main characters were Teletubbies who only live to fart in food carts, would it be reasonable to file that under "breaking new ground?" I don't think so. While everything doesn't have to be the same or recycled, there was a universe that spanned 40 years and 8 films. This one was very out of place, and they probably should have stuck with the EU or listened to Luke.



MTZehvor said:
JWeinCom said: 

"Plot Holes"

*Spoiler warning again*.

1.  The Force.  Leia is established as exceptionally force sensitive in ROTJ if not earlier.  We see her using some degree of basic force abilities in Force Awakens.  We've seen force powers used through instinct before (i.e. Anakin and Luke's piloting skills, Rey's ability to use the Jedi mind trick, etc).  Floating through space would only require the slightest nudge (since nothing would stop her momentum), so I could buy it.  I think it looked silly, but I have no conceptual objections.

I actually have to rewatch this scene, cause thinking back on it, I'd like to double check and see if Kylo is pushing Leia.  Because, that would be well within his abilities.  

2.  Luke is blocking laser shots blindfolded within a day of meeting Obi Wan.  Her force powers really aren't a tremendous leap forward from TFA, so if you want to call it a plot hole, call it one for that movie.  But in this one, she doesn't seem to be doing anything mindblowingly impressive in comparison.

Furthermore though, Snoke explains that her power is also related to Ren's.  They pretty directly explain that there is a balance between light and darkness (I forget the line exactly), so as one grows in strength the other does.  This would also kind of explain why Anakin was so much slower to learn than Luke or Rey, considering the amount of Jedi and the balance of power in the force at the time.  Since Rey is almost solely responsible for balancing against the dark side at this point, the force power is stronger in her than it normally would be imo.

3.  If there's a plothole here, it's that the rebels didn't figure it out sooner.  It's kind of obvious.  They, especially Leia, have a pretty good sense of what a Jedi is capable of.  There would be no reason for them to expect that Luke is going to singlehandedly decimate Ren's forces.  

And honestly, it would just be far less cool if Luke said it.  When Hitchcock was asked why one of his characters didn't just go to the police, he said because it'd be boring.  That principle is at play.  It makes for a more exciting movie.  

4.  They actually allude to this early in the movie, with Ren asking Rey (I think, may have been the other way around) how she can communicate as they do without being dead.  But, this is basically an application of the force ghost shizzy that we've seen since Empire.  When Jedi truly become "one with the force" they can appear as a projection basically wherever they want ala Obi Wan or Yoda.  Luke however, unlike the others, still has something to do in this world.  So he is able to partially give himself to the force, essentially leaving him halfway between life and death, which is why his force apparition is more corporeal.  

This kind of thing isn't a plotholes.  It's something that's not explained fully, but we know enough that we could fill in the blanks.  We have seen projection as an ability used specifically by dead Jedi, but is not able to be used while they are alive.  From there we could figure out the rest.

5.  Who cares?  Snoke's past is not relevant to understanding the plot in anyway.  It may be interesting, or may be not, but it doesn't have much bearing on the events in the last jedi, so if you are concerned about too many plot threads, I don't really know why you'd push for this.

Bear in mind, we didn't know anything about the Emperor in episodes IV-VI.  We only find his backstory, and even then we never find out why he's especially powerful, in the prequels.  And really, did that add much to the originals?  Maybe they'll have some movies to fill in the space between VI and VII, but it's really not important here.

#1: I'm less concerned with the act of pushing herself as I am the idea of her being fully exposed in space without the bodily fluids inside her beginning to boil and causing severe long term damage, while I believe being unconscious, no less.

#2: I mean, I'd consider suddenly having the ability to communicate over galaxies to be a pretty significant step taken forward. But I'll get to that in #4.

#3: That's such a silly line of reasoning that doesn't make it any less of a plothole. If you're putting any kind of plan into effect that will literally determine whether a large group of people lives or dies, you don't just leave them to figure out your intentions. They might think that you're planning on summoning some other hitherto unmentioned force ability, or just not realize that they need to follow those crystal creatures to get out of the cave system, or perhaps just be so confused that they don't figure it out altogether. Even if you think it's the most obvious thing out there, there's no excuse for not communicating it when you lose nothing by doing so.

And honestly I'm not sure how telling people that you're buying time makes something less "cool." Luke's still out there, still holding up the First Order, still confusing Kylo Ren. Is having your allies stand around and be confused for a few minutes cool now? I can suspend some disbelief for the sake of having a plot in the first place, which I suspect is what Hitchcock was referring to, but this isn't that. The scene becomes no more or less meaningful with Luke just hoping that everyone figures it out.

#4: The problem here, as with most of the stuff in #2, is that there's a lack of consistency. If Force users have always been capable of projecting these kind of images or communicating across huge distances, why have we never seen active force users do so before? Seems like it would be a pretty useful tool to get a message out to other Jedi when Palpatine was busy having them all executed. If they haven't always been capable of doing so, why are Luke, Rey, and Kylo now suddenly capable? What makes them so much more competent than the myriad of Jedi with years of training that came before? What exactly is this "raw power" that Luke notes which presumably plays some kind of role in all this?

#5: The difference between the Emperor and Snoke is the difference in context. Having some virtually all powerful evil dude in the Original Trilogy works because we know next to nothing about the Sith. There could have been way more than just two Sith, hidden somewhere else, because there were no rules or guidelines established surrounding them. When the prequels roll around, guidelines are established; we know that there are only two Sith, and that they tend to be pretty cutthroat when it comes to the possibility of others infringing on their territory.

When the new trilogy rolls around, having a new, highly experienced force wielder who uses the dark side doesn't make a lot of sense. Where would he have come from? Who would have possibly trained him? I seriously doubt that Palpatine would have been willing to train yet another apprentice in secret. So we have suddenly have this incredibly powerful guy who has seemingly come out of nowhere to take control of the entire First Order and...no explanation whatsoever on where he got any of his powers. And the explanation is necessary here because of the context that the series has now.

As for why I care, it's because it seemingly goes against the established context of the universe. The less consistent your universe is in operating within the parameters it sets for itself, the less believable it becomes. And the less believable it becomes, the less reason I have to care about any of the stakes in these movies. If these all powerful force beings can just spring up out of seemingly nowhere, why should I care at all about what happens to Rey or Kylo? Who's to say that another highly skilled force wielder that we've never heard of and is only appearing now for some reason won't just suddenly pop up to save/destroy the galaxy next? Who's to say that there isn't some other force sensitive kid who will pop up out of nowhere to save the galaxy? When you discard the rules that you set forth for yourself, your universe becomes an utterly arbitrary place where anything can happen for the sake of whatever plot device seems coolest to the director.

*Spoilers*


1.  Dunno enough about the effects of space to really say anything further, plus I'd need to watch the scene more closely.  Given what we've seen of the force, doesn't seem like this would be a huge stretch.

2.  She doesn't have that ability.  Snoke is the one enabling her to communicate with Kylo.  They clearly explain this.  Not even close to a plothole.

3.  They're just going to be so confused they can't figure out what to do?  Is this the resistance, or a pre-k class?  

Luke didn't know about the crystal things as far as I know, which is why he doesn't mention it.  He's trusting that the rebellion would figure something out.  They already know that they can't fight the First Order.  They've literally spent the whole movie trying to get away from them.   That's the whole point of the movie.  Even if Luke did have some magic super force power (he made it pretty clear to Leia that wasn't his goal), they would still need to leave since the first order knew they were there.  Really no other option, and no benefit to staying.

And in a dramatic moment like that, the less said the better.  Definitely cooler that way.  Plus Luke has been in hiding for several years (not exactly the best social graces) and he was kind of worried about facing his old student and his impending death.  We can forgive him if his actions are somewhat erratic.

4.  Force users don't project themselves to communicate because it literally kills them, or they have to be dead first.  Also, it was developed by Quigon, and as far as we know, only Yoda, Obiwan, and Anakin knew how to do it.  

They don't communicate telepathically because they cannot.  Snoke is the only one to demonstrate that ability, and it's limited to Rey and Ren who had already connected with eachother's minds in TFA.  

5.  At no point are Snoke or Kylo Ren ever stated to be Sith.  I actually don't believe they are or Kylo Ren would be Darth something.  And Snoke seems to be training more than one person.  

As for where he came from, he came from somewhere.  Seriously, the Galaxy is a really big place.  We've seen in the original movies, and Rogue One, that knowledge of the Jedi and the Force wasn't something that was lost to the galaxy, and there were force sensitive people after the death of the Jedi order.  There's nothing about another dark side force user that violates any rule.  When you have a universe the size of this, it would be surprising if there were not other characters in the fringes doing something.  Franchises of this size and scale are constantly introducing more heroes and villains.  And unless it's really relevant to the story, they don't always make a big fuss about where hey come from.   Sometimes they intentionally leave it a mystery. I can name literally hundreds of examples of this.  

And, Snoke's origin really doesn't matter.  What aspect of the story, aside from his origin itself, would be affected by how Snoke came to power?  How would any of the events of the movie play out differently?  I'd be fine with them doing a side story about it, cause I'm somewhat curious, but it really has no bearing on the story.






If these are your ideas of plotholes, then you're misusing the term.  Perhaps you'd like these things explained more in depth, and if that's the kind of storytelling you prefer, then that's fine.  But nothing about any of this (except maybe #1) actually doesn't make sense or go against any of the world's rules.



Snoopy said:

In all seriousness, everybody wanted something new from previous star war (TFA biggest complaint and my as well). They get something that is completely different from previous star wars, but it expands on the universe as well. Now fans are now pissed off. I'm glad personally they didn't go with the cliches such as Rey dad being Luke.

There's a difference between keeping in line with the canon while going in a different direction and completely changing the tone of the series and disrespecting the original characters. I'd be mad if a lord of the rings sequel turned into a slapstick comedy, for example.



JWeinCom said: 

If these are your ideas of plotholes, then you're misusing the term.  Perhaps you'd like these things explained more in depth, and if that's the kind of storytelling you prefer, then that's fine.  But nothing about any of this (except maybe #1) actually doesn't make sense or go against any of the world's rules.

Then let me address this before going back to tackle the actual points, because I really don't think I'm misusing the term at all.

To quote Wikipedia (which admittedly isn't perfect but I think this definition is reasonable): A plothole is a gap or inconsistency in a storyline that goes against the flow of logic established by the story's plot. Such inconsistencies include such things as illogical or impossible events, and statements or events that contradict earlier events in the storyline. I would also add onto that things that contradict plain, common sense, but I suppose you're welcome to dispute that addition.

Now, you can argue whether my arguments are right or not, but if you do accept that my argumentation is correct, then I don't see any way that you cannot consider these plot holes. If Snoke's origins make no sense given the lore that was built up in the prequels, that is an event that contradicts earlier statements in the Star Wars storyline. If the force acts inconsistently compared with previous films, that is a plothole, because it contradicts how the force is shown to work previously. Etc. etc.

To the other points:

1) I feel like this is a pretty significant stretch, especially if Leia is unconscious. Admittedly what the force allows its users to do is so vaguely defined that it's hard to say what is or isn't feasible, but I think you'd see more usage of that in the series. A field that entirely negates the vacuum of space would have to be pretty strong, and it seems like it would have been used before.

2) I guess I missed that explanation, but it just backs the plot issue up to a previous point, i.e. Snoke's origin. But more on that in Point 5.

3) Given that not five minutes earlier a Resistance fighter crashed her ship into a friendly ship to stop him from taking out an enemy cannon, and only an hour ago had two coups back to back, I don't think the kindergarden label is inaccurate. And, again, why take the chance? The resistance is scared, many of their members are clearly not thinking very straight, and they're backed into a corner. They're probably not in the best state of mind. Why would you assume that they would be thinking logically when you can just, with a single sentence, ensure that they get what you're doing?

And the idea of Luke just acting erratically is a poor excuse at best. If he was capable of formulating a plan like that and having a last, meaningful conversation with his sister, I think his mental condition was intact enough to simply say "Hey I'm stalling them, make a run for it."

#4: Maybe I missed this, but...when was it mentioned that Qui-Gon developed the technique? At the end of Episode 3, Yoda talks about communicating with the dead, but that doesn't seem like the same thing. And, on top of that, it brings up another issue...

#5: If Snoke wields this long-distance communication power which, according to you, was exclusive to Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan, Anakin, and Yoda, then where did he get it? 

The knowledge of the Jedi and Force was pretty much reduced to myth status, if A New Hope is anything to go by. Han disregards it as superstition when he first meets Luke and Obi-Wan.

As for other individuals, granted, there are plenty of force sensitive people. But Snoke, even if he isn't explicitly stated to be a Sith, is very much skilled with the dark side of the force. That takes training, and there aren't exactly a ton of people who are offering lessons in force wielding out there.

Again, why this all matters is the stakes that the universe operates by. If your universe is filled with gaping plotholes, then it's just inconsistent. To quote my previous post: "The less consistent your universe is in operating within the parameters it sets for itself, the less believable it becomes. And the less believable it becomes, the less reason I have to care about any of the stakes in these movies. If these all powerful force beings can just spring up out of seemingly nowhere, why should I care at all about what happens to Rey or Kylo? Who's to say that another highly skilled force wielder that we've never heard of and is only appearing now for some reason won't just suddenly pop up to save/destroy the galaxy next? Who's to say that there isn't some other force sensitive kid who will pop up out of nowhere to save the galaxy? When you discard the rules that you set forth for yourself, your universe becomes an utterly arbitrary place where anything can happen for the sake of whatever plot device seems coolest to the director."