MTZehvor said:
#1: I'm less concerned with the act of pushing herself as I am the idea of her being fully exposed in space without the bodily fluids inside her beginning to boil and causing severe long term damage, while I believe being unconscious, no less. #2: I mean, I'd consider suddenly having the ability to communicate over galaxies to be a pretty significant step taken forward. But I'll get to that in #4. #3: That's such a silly line of reasoning that doesn't make it any less of a plothole. If you're putting any kind of plan into effect that will literally determine whether a large group of people lives or dies, you don't just leave them to figure out your intentions. They might think that you're planning on summoning some other hitherto unmentioned force ability, or just not realize that they need to follow those crystal creatures to get out of the cave system, or perhaps just be so confused that they don't figure it out altogether. Even if you think it's the most obvious thing out there, there's no excuse for not communicating it when you lose nothing by doing so. And honestly I'm not sure how telling people that you're buying time makes something less "cool." Luke's still out there, still holding up the First Order, still confusing Kylo Ren. Is having your allies stand around and be confused for a few minutes cool now? I can suspend some disbelief for the sake of having a plot in the first place, which I suspect is what Hitchcock was referring to, but this isn't that. The scene becomes no more or less meaningful with Luke just hoping that everyone figures it out. #4: The problem here, as with most of the stuff in #2, is that there's a lack of consistency. If Force users have always been capable of projecting these kind of images or communicating across huge distances, why have we never seen active force users do so before? Seems like it would be a pretty useful tool to get a message out to other Jedi when Palpatine was busy having them all executed. If they haven't always been capable of doing so, why are Luke, Rey, and Kylo now suddenly capable? What makes them so much more competent than the myriad of Jedi with years of training that came before? What exactly is this "raw power" that Luke notes which presumably plays some kind of role in all this? #5: The difference between the Emperor and Snoke is the difference in context. Having some virtually all powerful evil dude in the Original Trilogy works because we know next to nothing about the Sith. There could have been way more than just two Sith, hidden somewhere else, because there were no rules or guidelines established surrounding them. When the prequels roll around, guidelines are established; we know that there are only two Sith, and that they tend to be pretty cutthroat when it comes to the possibility of others infringing on their territory. When the new trilogy rolls around, having a new, highly experienced force wielder who uses the dark side doesn't make a lot of sense. Where would he have come from? Who would have possibly trained him? I seriously doubt that Palpatine would have been willing to train yet another apprentice in secret. So we have suddenly have this incredibly powerful guy who has seemingly come out of nowhere to take control of the entire First Order and...no explanation whatsoever on where he got any of his powers. And the explanation is necessary here because of the context that the series has now. As for why I care, it's because it seemingly goes against the established context of the universe. The less consistent your universe is in operating within the parameters it sets for itself, the less believable it becomes. And the less believable it becomes, the less reason I have to care about any of the stakes in these movies. If these all powerful force beings can just spring up out of seemingly nowhere, why should I care at all about what happens to Rey or Kylo? Who's to say that another highly skilled force wielder that we've never heard of and is only appearing now for some reason won't just suddenly pop up to save/destroy the galaxy next? Who's to say that there isn't some other force sensitive kid who will pop up out of nowhere to save the galaxy? When you discard the rules that you set forth for yourself, your universe becomes an utterly arbitrary place where anything can happen for the sake of whatever plot device seems coolest to the director. |
*Spoilers*
1. Dunno enough about the effects of space to really say anything further, plus I'd need to watch the scene more closely. Given what we've seen of the force, doesn't seem like this would be a huge stretch.
2. She doesn't have that ability. Snoke is the one enabling her to communicate with Kylo. They clearly explain this. Not even close to a plothole.
3. They're just going to be so confused they can't figure out what to do? Is this the resistance, or a pre-k class?
Luke didn't know about the crystal things as far as I know, which is why he doesn't mention it. He's trusting that the rebellion would figure something out. They already know that they can't fight the First Order. They've literally spent the whole movie trying to get away from them. That's the whole point of the movie. Even if Luke did have some magic super force power (he made it pretty clear to Leia that wasn't his goal), they would still need to leave since the first order knew they were there. Really no other option, and no benefit to staying.
And in a dramatic moment like that, the less said the better. Definitely cooler that way. Plus Luke has been in hiding for several years (not exactly the best social graces) and he was kind of worried about facing his old student and his impending death. We can forgive him if his actions are somewhat erratic.
4. Force users don't project themselves to communicate because it literally kills them, or they have to be dead first. Also, it was developed by Quigon, and as far as we know, only Yoda, Obiwan, and Anakin knew how to do it.
They don't communicate telepathically because they cannot. Snoke is the only one to demonstrate that ability, and it's limited to Rey and Ren who had already connected with eachother's minds in TFA.
5. At no point are Snoke or Kylo Ren ever stated to be Sith. I actually don't believe they are or Kylo Ren would be Darth something. And Snoke seems to be training more than one person.
As for where he came from, he came from somewhere. Seriously, the Galaxy is a really big place. We've seen in the original movies, and Rogue One, that knowledge of the Jedi and the Force wasn't something that was lost to the galaxy, and there were force sensitive people after the death of the Jedi order. There's nothing about another dark side force user that violates any rule. When you have a universe the size of this, it would be surprising if there were not other characters in the fringes doing something. Franchises of this size and scale are constantly introducing more heroes and villains. And unless it's really relevant to the story, they don't always make a big fuss about where hey come from. Sometimes they intentionally leave it a mystery. I can name literally hundreds of examples of this.
And, Snoke's origin really doesn't matter. What aspect of the story, aside from his origin itself, would be affected by how Snoke came to power? How would any of the events of the movie play out differently? I'd be fine with them doing a side story about it, cause I'm somewhat curious, but it really has no bearing on the story.
If these are your ideas of plotholes, then you're misusing the term. Perhaps you'd like these things explained more in depth, and if that's the kind of storytelling you prefer, then that's fine. But nothing about any of this (except maybe #1) actually doesn't make sense or go against any of the world's rules.
