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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - So, was 3D World better than Odyssey? S-P-O-I-L-E-R-S

 

So...

3D World 14 14.89%
 
Odyssey 49 52.13%
 
Galaxy 28 29.79%
 
Crash is better 3 3.19%
 
Total:94

Odyssey was way too short and by the time you have collected the 400th moon the gameplay becomes dull and repetitive. Super Mario 3D World on the other hand lasted me and my family 50 hours with all the bonus worlds and actually interesting level design. 3D World is the best by far in my opinion



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GameOverture said:
Jumpin said:

That’s on them. It’s not a fault of the game design that people want to be completionists and then complain that there’s too much content to complete.

It is absolutely the fault of the game when part of it is not that good.

it’s not that there’s too much content to complete, it’s that some of the content feels like padding the game out for the sake of boasting about the number of activities.

The topic deals with people complaining that there is too much content.

It's not padding because the game wasn't designed so you must complete every Shrine, get every Korok seed, and collect every little item in the game. The game was designed to be vast and astonishing open world, the content balanced across it so players could travel with freedom around the world with many different viable paths with the required resources and content. Shrinking the scope of the game would lessen what makes the game great. It would be dumb to limit the game's potential to cater toward the fact that there are going to be some completionists; and among them a subsection of whiny, lazy completionists.

If you're going to be a whiny lazy completionist, Breath of the Wild isn't the game for you. It'll be too big.

 



I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.

Jumpin said:
GameOverture said:

It is absolutely the fault of the game when part of it is not that good.

it’s not that there’s too much content to complete, it’s that some of the content feels like padding the game out for the sake of boasting about the number of activities.

The topic deals with people complaining that there is too much content.

It's not padding because the game wasn't designed so you must complete every Shrine, get every Korok seed, and collect every little item in the game. The game was designed to be vast and astonishing open world, the content balanced across it so players could travel with freedom around the world with many different viable paths with the required resources and content. Shrinking the scope of the game would lessen what makes the game great. It would be dumb to limit the game's potential to cater toward the fact that there are going to be some completionists; and among them a subsection of whiny, lazy completionists.

If you're going to be a whiny lazy completionist, Breath of the Wild isn't the game for you. It'll be too big.

I understand what you're saying but there's no reason some of that content couldn't be something else if they really wanted there to be 120 shrines. I didn't complete the game BotW 100%, but I was sick of Test of Strength shrines with little to no variation. Judging by what I've seen on the internet, so was everybody else. I get that you think you're not supposed find all of them (which I find weird in a game that's about exploring the open world looking for shrines, but whatever), but imagine a scenario where you play about 60 shrines before being done with the game and about 15 of them are tests of strength, that makes the game look pretty bad. Sure, you may call it bad luck, but if the game was designed in with less shrines like those, the chances of that happening would be lower. Good game design needs to take these things into account. 

Btw, just to be clear, BotW was my GotY for 2017, so don't mistake me criticizing the game as me hating on it. It's probably my favorite Zelda, but I think it has clear room for improvement.

Also, I don't get how being a completionist is being lazy, or whiny for that matter, it's just a different playstyle.



I make game analyses on youtube:

FFVI: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSO6n8kNCwk
Shadow of the Colossus: https://youtu.be/9kDBFGw6SXQ
Silent Hill 2: https://youtu.be/BwISCik3Njc
BotW: https://youtu.be/4auqRSAWYKU

3D World was not better than Odyssey.



NND: 0047-7271-7918 | XBL: Nights illusion | PSN: GameNChick

GameOverture said:
Jumpin said:

The topic deals with people complaining that there is too much content.

It's not padding because the game wasn't designed so you must complete every Shrine, get every Korok seed, and collect every little item in the game. The game was designed to be vast and astonishing open world, the content balanced across it so players could travel with freedom around the world with many different viable paths with the required resources and content. Shrinking the scope of the game would lessen what makes the game great. It would be dumb to limit the game's potential to cater toward the fact that there are going to be some completionists; and among them a subsection of whiny, lazy completionists.

If you're going to be a whiny lazy completionist, Breath of the Wild isn't the game for you. It'll be too big.

I understand what you're saying but there's no reason some of that content couldn't be something else if they really wanted there to be 120 shrines. I didn't complete the game BotW 100%, but I was sick of Test of Strength shrines with little to no variation. Judging by what I've seen on the internet, so was everybody else. I get that you think you're not supposed find all of them (which I find weird in a game that's about exploring the open world looking for shrines, but whatever), but imagine a scenario where you play about 60 shrines before being done with the game and about 15 of them are tests of strength, that makes the game look pretty bad. Sure, you may call it bad luck, but if the game was designed in with less shrines like those, the chances of that happening would be lower. Good game design needs to take these things into account. 

Btw, just to be clear, BotW was my GotY for 2017, so don't mistake me criticizing the game as me hating on it. It's probably my favorite Zelda, but I think it has clear room for improvement.

Also, I don't get how being a completionist is being lazy, or whiny for that matter, it's just a different playstyle.

On the first bit: you claim there's no reason not to have more diversity - there is a reason, it's called production scope. You can argue all you want about wanting more variety, from every mini-boss monster being unique down to every enemy in the game being unique, every tree being unique - and the reason why it isn't is always the same: production scope. That's a different topic, Breath of the Wild was already a massive undertaking, upping the development time in order to make it more massive/diverse/whatever is another topic. My argument isn't about production at all, it's about people whining that the game has too much content.

If you find it weird that Breath of the Wild doesn't require find all the content, then that's on you. Most people don't have that issue, and you're the first person I have heard say it. Again, a different argument. If you're a player that finds the tests of strength intolerable to play, you can skip them, you do not have to finish every single Shrine you come across, there are LOTS of other options.

 

Onto your main argument

You argue that the best way to deal with the hypothetical consideration that players might go for 60 Shrines, and might find 15 tests of strength among them, and then among those players, they might find that it makes the game look bad. As a result, you argue that good design would suggest that developers remove X amount of Shrines. 

This is where I disagree with you. First, removing Shrines would break the balance of the game: the world would be emptier. For consistency's sake, you would similarly have to make the same argument that there are too many stables around the world, or that there are too many Korok seeds. The reason they do this is a game balance for the scope of the world. I have already addressed this point in previous posts: cutting down on the content of the game breaks the balance. Cutting down on the size of the world to maintain balance dulls/shrinks one of the major hooks/appeals that made the game as successful as it has been; sacrificing that to appease a small sliver of nitpickers is an example of a BAD design choice (as I have already stated in my above post).

 

"Also, I don't get how being a completionist is being lazy, or whiny for that matter, it's just a different playstyle."
I didn't argue that.



I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.

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yeh I gotta say again I really prefer 3d world to odyssey as someone said its basically a collectathon which I was never a big fan of



Odyssey is really enjoyable up until about 600 moons then it becomes a drag looking for the moons you've missed. I was at about 700 when I decided to start over from scratch which is much more enjoyable than grinding the last moons.

For 3D World, apart the first world which is a bit boring, I loved the level design and the amount of new ideas pumped in every level. The extra levels at the end are brilliant and challenging. The only thing I didn't do is get the flagpole with all 5 characters because that's just mindless grinding.

I'm still juggling with which one I like best between the two.



Signature goes here!

Odyssey! Over 64 - Sunshine and 3D World!



Switch!!!

Jumpin said:
GameOverture said:

I understand what you're saying but there's no reason some of that content couldn't be something else if they really wanted there to be 120 shrines. I didn't complete the game BotW 100%, but I was sick of Test of Strength shrines with little to no variation. Judging by what I've seen on the internet, so was everybody else. I get that you think you're not supposed find all of them (which I find weird in a game that's about exploring the open world looking for shrines, but whatever), but imagine a scenario where you play about 60 shrines before being done with the game and about 15 of them are tests of strength, that makes the game look pretty bad. Sure, you may call it bad luck, but if the game was designed in with less shrines like those, the chances of that happening would be lower. Good game design needs to take these things into account. 

Btw, just to be clear, BotW was my GotY for 2017, so don't mistake me criticizing the game as me hating on it. It's probably my favorite Zelda, but I think it has clear room for improvement.

Also, I don't get how being a completionist is being lazy, or whiny for that matter, it's just a different playstyle.

On the first bit: you claim there's no reason not to have more diversity - there is a reason, it's called production scope. You can argue all you want about wanting more variety, from every mini-boss monster being unique down to every enemy in the game being unique, every tree being unique - and the reason why it isn't is always the same: production scope. That's a different topic, Breath of the Wild was already a massive undertaking, upping the development time in order to make it more massive/diverse/whatever is another topic. My argument isn't about production at all, it's about people whining that the game has too much content.

If you find it weird that Breath of the Wild doesn't require find all the content, then that's on you. Most people don't have that issue, and you're the first person I have heard say it. Again, a different argument. If you're a player that finds the tests of strength intolerable to play, you can skip them, you do not have to finish every single Shrine you come across, there are LOTS of other options.

 

Onto your main argument

You argue that the best way to deal with the hypothetical consideration that players might go for 60 Shrines, and might find 15 tests of strength among them, and then among those players, they might find that it makes the game look bad. As a result, you argue that good design would suggest that developers remove X amount of Shrines. 

This is where I disagree with you. First, removing Shrines would break the balance of the game: the world would be emptier. For consistency's sake, you would similarly have to make the same argument that there are too many stables around the world, or that there are too many Korok seeds. The reason they do this is a game balance for the scope of the world. I have already addressed this point in previous posts: cutting down on the content of the game breaks the balance. Cutting down on the size of the world to maintain balance dulls/shrinks one of the major hooks/appeals that made the game as successful as it has been; sacrificing that to appease a small sliver of nitpickers is an example of a BAD design choice (as I have already stated in my above post).

 

"Also, I don't get how being a completionist is being lazy, or whiny for that matter, it's just a different playstyle."
I didn't argue that.

I understand production scope doesn’t allow them to make more content, but that’s something that must be taken into consideration from day one. When they decided they wanted to have 120 shrines, they should’ve come up with ideas for 120 shrines instead of recycling one idea 20 times. If they can’t come up with 120 shrines then the number should be lower. If that makes the world empty, then the world needs to be smaller or they should come up with other meaningful content to fill that space. If anything making the game smaller could make it better, that’s what I’ve been saying all along. Nintendo is fixated on boasting big numbers for BotW and Odyssey, but quantity is not the same as quality.

 “If you're going to be a whiny lazy completionist, Breath of the Wild isn't the game for you. It'll be too big.” I was refering to this quote. I don’t get what is the problem with being a completionist

Last edited by GameOverture - on 30 January 2018

I make game analyses on youtube:

FFVI: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSO6n8kNCwk
Shadow of the Colossus: https://youtu.be/9kDBFGw6SXQ
Silent Hill 2: https://youtu.be/BwISCik3Njc
BotW: https://youtu.be/4auqRSAWYKU